2020 3500HD with heavy duty front spring package?

Tow Big or Tow Home · March 28, 2020

14 hours ago, MTU Alum said:

HD front springs does not the GVW or GCW. It only raises the FGAWR. The biggest thing it helps is for pickup campers. The mass calculation can put you over FGAWR with a camper.

#iworkforGM

Thanks MTU! If the HD Front Springs don't increase either the GVWR or GCWR, does that mean they don't increase the Max. Payload, Max. Ball Hitch Trailer Wt. and Max. 5th Wheel Trailer Wt. Ratings?

Sniperdan · March 28, 2020

2 minutes ago, Tow Big or Tow Home said:

Thanks MTU! If the HD Front Springs don't increase either the GVWR or GCWR, does that mean they don't increase the Max. Payload, Max. Ball Hitch Trailer Wt. and Max. 5th Wheel Trailer Wt. Ratings?

Stiffer front suspension will give you more control when cornering with a heavy load on the bed as the front corners won't "dive" as much. It will not be an advantage with a conventional trailer but if you pull a 5th wheel or haul heavy loads it will give you a little better control in the corners. Even though I haul heavy sometimes, I opted to not get them because I didn't want the stiffer ride when not hauling or when off road. Besides, it is an easy upgrade later if I feel it is necessary.

Tow Big or Tow Home · March 28, 2020

7 hours ago, unit said:

The plow prep package gives you quite a lot for small additional cost. It must be a popular package because many of the trucks I see on dealer lots have it. I have it and can't judge how much stiffer the front suspension is but it's no worse than my 08 was without the plow package. I drove a lot of trucks before buying this one. The Ford and Ram HD's I drove were less comfortable that the Chevy. I like having the larger alternator, skid plates and pass through hole into the cab from the engine bay. In the end - it depends on what you're going to do with the truck.

Snow Plow Prep Package:
includes (KW5) 220-amp alternator, includes increased front GAWR on Heavy Duty models, (NZZ) skid plates (transfer case and oil pan), pass through dash grommet hole and roof emergency light provisions. Contact GM Upfitter Integration at www.gmupfitter.com for plow installation details and assistance (Requires 4WD model. Requires (CGN) Chevytec spray-on bedliner unless (ZW9) pickup bed delete is ordered. Upgradeable to (KHF) Dual alternators (220-amp primary, 170-amp auxiliary). Not available with (F60) Heavy Duty Front Spring Package.) Snow Plow Prep Package Power feed to accommodate a backup and roof emergency light1 A single 220-amp alternator Heavy-duty front springs Under body skid plates to help protect the transfer case from debris May require additional optional equipment

Thanks unit! I've noticed that most of the trucks on the lot have the Snow Plow Prep. Package as well, as you said it must be a popular option. I'm getting a diesel so the 220 amp alternator is included with that. As far as the skid plates, I'm confused. Like you, I'd seen that a transfer case and oil pan skid plate come with the Snow Plow package, but then I was looking at the Standard Features - Mechanical and saw the following was included: "Skid Plates - Help protect the front underbody, oil pan, differential case and transfer case". So I don't know if the skid plates with are supposed to come with the Snow Plow Prep Package are different than the skid plates which are supposed to be a Standard Feature?

MTU Alum · March 28, 2020

29 minutes ago, Tow Big or Tow Home said:

Thanks MTU! If the HD Front Springs don't increase either the GVWR or GCWR, does that mean they don't increase the Max. Payload, Max. Ball Hitch Trailer Wt. and Max. 5th Wheel Trailer Wt. Ratings?

Correct. FGAWR goes up 400 lbs. Everything else is the same.

#iworkforGM

Tow Big or Tow Home · March 28, 2020

8 minutes ago, Sniperdan said:

Stiffer front suspension will give you more control when cornering with a heavy load on the bed as the front corners won't "dive" as much. It will not be an advantage with a conventional trailer but if you pull a 5th wheel or haul heavy loads it will give you a little better control in the corners. Even though I haul heavy sometimes, I opted to not get them because I didn't want the stiffer ride when not hauling or when off road. Besides, it is an easy upgrade later if I feel it is necessary.

Thanks for the insight on corner diving with a load Sniperdan. Are you happy with your decision to not get the HD front springs even though you haul heavy sometimes? My "heavy load" use will be for pulling a 5th wheel camper. The campers we're looking at weigh between 12,000-14,000 lbs and have 5th wheel hitch wts. between 2,350-3,050 lbs. It will be also be used for pulling my boat and snowmobiles and just everyday grocery getting without a big load though and like you, I don't want the stiffer ride when not hauling heavy, so I don't want to get the HD front springs if they only have limited benefit while towing the 5th wheel. So that's what I'm trying to figure out, if they would offer better handling/safety when towing the 5th wheel or if it really doesn't matter much for my use. Thanks everyone for your input.

MTU Alum · March 28, 2020

1 hour ago, MesaRat said:

was wondering if you knew if the HD Front springs result in the front end being a bit higher/lifted compared to normal springs (everything else being equal)? I took a few quick measurements and it seems like i'm ~1" lower in front (reading online more for other folks).

was also wondering abut adjusting torsion bars - service thinks they can get 1" more lift but they are small dealer and haven't done one on a new HD. Do you think this will create any ride degradation or undue stress on other suspension components (1", stock suspension, 3500 HD Front springs)?

appreciate your input.

The trim heights are the same no matter the FGAWR/front torsion bar setup. The angle at which the torsion engages changes to make sure that is enough adjust ability to meet the same height with the various weights.

In general, you don't want crank your torsion bars too much because it can over travel the ball joints. You can crank a couple turns but I wouldn't recommend more than that. If you crank the torsion bars, you will need to realign it.

#iworkforGM

Tow Big or Tow Home · March 28, 2020

2 minutes ago, MTU Alum said:

Correct. FGAWR goes up 400 lbs. Everything else is the same.

#iworkforGM

Great, thanks for the info. I'm looking to get a 3500 Diesel, CC, Std. Box, 4WD with SRW. It has a curb wt. of 7,877 lbs and I'm curious how much of that is on the front vs. rear axles but can't find that info. anywhere. I'm asking because I'm just curious how close the unloaded wt. on the front axle is to the Stnd. Spring FGAWR of 5,600 lbs vs the HD Spring FGAWR of 6,000 lbs?

Sniperdan · March 28, 2020

23 minutes ago, Tow Big or Tow Home said:

Thanks for the insight on corner diving with a load Sniperdan. Are you happy with your decision to not get the HD front springs even though you haul heavy sometimes? My "heavy load" use will be for pulling a 5th wheel camper. The campers we're looking at weigh between 12,000-14,000 lbs and have 5th wheel hitch wts. between 2,350-3,050 lbs. It will be also be used for pulling my boat and snowmobiles and just everyday grocery getting without a big load though and like you, I don't want the stiffer ride when not hauling heavy, so I don't want to get the HD front springs if they only have limited benefit while towing the 5th wheel. So that's what I'm trying to figure out, if they would offer better handling/safety when towing the 5th wheel or if it really doesn't matter much for my use. Thanks everyone for your input.

I am still waiting for my truck to arrive (factory order) so I can't say. However, I did not need them or miss them on my 2009 so I cannot imagine them being too important now.

MTU Alum · March 28, 2020

33 minutes ago, Tow Big or Tow Home said:

Great, thanks for the info. I'm looking to get a 3500 Diesel, CC, Std. Box, 4WD with SRW. It has a curb wt. of 7,877 lbs and I'm curious how much of that is on the front vs. rear axles but can't find that info. anywhere. I'm asking because I'm just curious how close the unloaded wt. on the front axle is to the Stnd. Spring FGAWR of 5,600 lbs vs the HD Spring FGAWR of 6,000 lbs?

You probably are at 4500 to 4700 lbs on front axle.

FirstAscent · March 28, 2020

39 minutes ago, Tow Big or Tow Home said:

Great, thanks for the info. I'm looking to get a 3500 Diesel, CC, Std. Box, 4WD with SRW. It has a curb wt. of 7,877 lbs and I'm curious how much of that is on the front vs. rear axles but can't find that info. anywhere. I'm asking because I'm just curious how close the unloaded wt. on the front axle is to the Stnd. Spring FGAWR of 5,600 lbs vs the HD Spring FGAWR of 6,000 lbs?

Ask and ye shall receive I had plenty of people help me out when I had similar questions before I got my truck so I'm happy I can repay the favor.

I have the same truck you're looking at, in the Silverado High Country trim. Curb Weight is 8379 lbs on my sticker so quite a bit higher than your number you referenced.

Also, the attached photo is my front and rear (steer and drive) weights with full fuel, full DEF, and one 160lb driver.

Edited March 28, 2020 by FirstAscent

Tow Big or Tow Home · March 28, 2020

1 hour ago, FirstAscent said:

Ask and ye shall receive I had plenty of people help me out when I had similar questions before I got my truck so I'm happy I can repay the favor.

I have the same truck you're looking at, in the Silverado High Country trim. Curb Weight is 8379 lbs on my sticker so quite a bit higher than your number you referenced.

Also, the attached photo is my front and rear (steer and drive) weights with full fuel, full DEF, and one 160lb driver.

Yea, that 500 lb difference is curious. I'll have to check window stickers - the 7,877 was from the literature. Bottom line, the real wt. is what matters so it's very timely you just weighed yours last week. Your 4960 front axle aligns well with MTU's thoughts and comes in 640 lbs less than the std. front springs and 1040 under the HD springs. I wonder how much of 5th wheel wt. ends up on the front vs. rear wheel axle? Since it sits right over the rear axle I would think that would carry most of the load. Have you ever weighed each axle with a trailer or load of any sort?

FirstAscent · March 28, 2020

24 minutes ago, Tow Big or Tow Home said:

Yea, that 500 lb difference is curious. I'll have to check window stickers - the 7,877 was from the literature. Bottom line, the real wt. is what matters so it's very timely you just weighed yours last week. Your 4960 front axle aligns well with MTU's thoughts and comes in 640 lbs less than the std. front springs and 1040 under the HD springs. I wonder how much of 5th wheel wt. ends up on the front vs. rear wheel axle? Since it sits right over the rear axle I would think that would carry most of the load. Have you ever weighed each axle with a trailer or load of any sort?

I bet your 7877 was a gas model, the diesel's or heavier I believe. and probably with base options as well. but at least my numbers give you a real world baseline on a fully loaded (options-wise) 3500.

Also, btw, I do NOT have the heavy duty front springs, just the standard springs (torsion bars).

Btw, here are my max's from my door sticker if it helps as well:

RGAWR - 7250 lbs

FGAWR - 5600 lbs

I don't have a trailer/5th wheel to weigh...yet. But I recall on one of "The Fast Lane Truck" YouTube vids they had weighed the truck on a cat scale with maybe a 16k 5th wheel/gooseneck trailer and it took 1-200lbs off the front axle.

Tow Big or Tow Home · March 28, 2020

1 hour ago, FirstAscent said:

I bet your 7877 was a gas model, the diesel's or heavier I believe. and probably with base options as well. but at least my numbers give you a real world baseline on a fully loaded (options-wise) 3500.

Also, btw, I do NOT have the heavy duty front springs, just the standard springs (torsion bars).

Btw, here are my max's from my door sticker if it helps as well:

RGAWR - 7250 lbs

FGAWR - 5600 lbs

I don't have a trailer/5th wheel to weigh...yet. But I recall on one of "The Fast Lane Truck" YouTube vids they had weighed the truck on a cat scale with maybe a 16k 5th wheel/gooseneck trailer and it took 1-200lbs off the front axle.

Thanks for all the help. If you do another weight check after you get your 5th wheel I'd be interested in how it all comes out (including the trailer wt.) if you feel like posting it here.

FirstAscent · March 29, 2020

2 hours ago, Tow Big or Tow Home said:

Thanks for all the help. If you do another weight check after you get your 5th wheel I'd be interested in how it all comes out (including the trailer wt.) if you feel like posting it here.

Most definitely, I will for sure. But keep in mind it's going to be May at the SOONEST. But whenever it comes I'll be doing multiple weigh-ins loaded/unloaded.

MesaRat · April 3, 2020

On 3/28/2020 at 11:57 AM, MTU Alum said:

The trim heights are the same no matter the FGAWR/front torsion bar setup. The angle at which the torsion engages changes to make sure that is enough adjust ability to meet the same height with the various weights.

In general, you don't want crank your torsion bars too much because it can over travel the ball joints. You can crank a couple turns but I wouldn't recommend more than that. If you crank the torsion bars, you will need to realign it.

#iworkforGM

i had the dealer do two turns on my 3500 w/ HD Front Springs and they nor I could detect/measure any change in ride height (before and after) between front and back (still 1" lower in front). however, the ride down my 7 mile dirt road is much worse and not acceptable. i am considering two directions - lift with Cognitio or Kryptonite stage 2 kit with new UCA, key, and Fox IPS 2.0 shocks or returning it to stock Torsion bar setting.

Will replacing the UCA and turning the Torsion bar prevent the ~2" front lift from affecting ride quality (worse than factory)? Or no matter what is done, if the torsion bar is twisted beyond factory spec will I have ride degradation? I also wonder if the HD springs are not helping here

appreciate the input

Edited April 3, 2020 by MesaRat