Should GM Pay Health Benefits To Striking Workers?

KARNUT · September 21, 2019

OKC? Lol, you need another 2 hours north at least. I went to death Valley and Gila this year. 114-118 degrees while I was there. 101 in Tulsa("feels like 114") was much more miserable, I sweat much more when I got back. Shade doesn't help much in high humidity, it does in straight heat.

Sometimes you can get relief in the shade there. In the Houston area not until the end of October.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Grumpy Bear · September 22, 2019

This is really an odd thread. Being asked to take a side in 1.) a fight not yours, 2.) without knowing the specifics of the contract.

It isn't a moral question. It's a legal question. So why bring it up? Hum...conflict? Isn't that what a Troll does?

News reports today a person drove through a local Mall and "Nearly missed children'.

So...no one was hurt. But saying that doesn't generate interest in the truth.

Carlon wound have said, 'Nearly missed...so...he hit them'. Now that's funny.

KARNUT · September 22, 2019

This is really an odd thread. Being asked to take a side in 1.) a fight not yours, 2.) without knowing the specifics of the contract.

It isn't a moral question. It's a legal question. So why bring it up? Hum...conflict? Isn't that what a Troll does? [emoji4]

News reports today a person drove through a local Mall and "Nearly missed children'.

So...no one was hurt. But saying that doesn't generate interest in the truth.

Carlon wound have said, 'Nearly missed...so...he hit them'. Now that's funny.

Grumpy, Grumpy, Grumpy, This affects anyone who buys automobiles. Matter of fact it sets a precedent for most products made by unions. The trickledown affect is enormous.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ibmikey · September 22, 2019

Back to the strike issue, I am happy my new GMC was built on July 18 before the negotiations bogged down and the strike was called. I should think the vehicles assembled in those last few days will be something I would not want to purchase. I have seen strikes where the strikers destroyed property and threatened non union workers with injury, then the day the strike ends those same workers expect to have all sins forgiven. The health care issue is very similar. Now that is a mentality I cannot understand

Grumpy Bear · September 23, 2019

On 9/21/2019 at 7:13 PM, KARNUT said:

Grumpy, Grumpy, Grumpy, This affects anyone who buys automobiles. Matter of fact it sets a precedent for most products made by unions. The trickledown affect is enormous.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How is that relevant to the legality of the contract? A guilty verdict in a murder trial 'affects' people and at times even sets a precedent but what it doesn't do is change the law. I for one don't have a clue as the content of their contract so how could I offer a legal opinion? Come to think of it I wouldn't even have grounds for a moral opinion. Neutral seems good. I mean, how would my opinion 'affect' the outcome one way or the other. Only one I can think of. Create conflict and division. No thank you. But ya' all go right ahead. :cheers:

KARNUT · September 23, 2019

How is that relevant to the legality of the contract? A guilty verdict in a murder trial 'affects' people and at times even sets a precedent but what it doesn't do is change the law. I for one don't have a clue as the content of their contract so how could I offer a legal opinion? Come to think of it I wouldn't even have grounds for a moral opinion. Neutral seems good. I mean, how would my opinion 'affect' the outcome one way or the other. Only one I can think of. Create conflict and division. No thank you. But ya' all go right ahead.

I probably have more experience with unions than most. Being a son of a non union contractor from NJ. High taxes isn’t the only reason we move to Texas in the seventies to start over. This website is mostly opinionated with life experience thrown in. I posted somewhere real experiences of working next to a union job in jersey. Do I know what’s in their contact? Enough. Did it take lots of research? No. Unions, GM, politics, morale, legal, troll. Most people over 10 know how the world works and have an opinion. The union has their people’s best interest at heart. Who owns the Brooklyn Bridge now. I wonder what Jimmy Hoffa would have to say. Cheers to you

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Grumpy Bear · September 23, 2019

6 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I probably have more experience with unions than most. Being a son of a non union contractor from NJ. High taxes isn’t the only reason we move to Texas in the seventies to start over. This website is mostly opinionated with life experience thrown in. I posted somewhere real experiences of working next to a union job in jersey. Do I know what’s in their contact? Enough. Did it take lots of research? No. Unions, GM, politics, morale, legal, troll. Most people over 10 know how the world works and have an opinion. The union has their people’s best interest at heart. Who owns the Brooklyn Bridge now. I wonder what Jimmy Hoffa would have to say. Cheers to you

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I so do not understand you some days Stan. Think this is one of them. I've worked for OGAW and IUOE and the UFCW. I've also worked plants that hadn't contracts at all. I've worked in the plant and I've been management and I've even been self employed. This isn't my first rodeo. Do I have an opinion. NO. Do I mind if others do. NO.

I offered no opinion on workers rights nor employers rights but rather voiced the opinion that any opinion anyone, including myself, may have will have absolutely no impact on that negotiation but...it WILL stir up the mud here debating a pointless question. Pointless because?????? WE have no impact on that situation.

Have a beer :cheers: I'll buy first round

KARNUT · September 23, 2019

I so do not understand you some days Stan. Think this is one of them. I've worked for OGAW and IUOE and the UFCW. I've also worked plants that hadn't contracts at all. I've worked in the plant and I've been management and I've even been self employed. This isn't my first rodeo. Do I have an opinion. NO. Do I mind if others do. NO.

I offered no opinion on workers rights nor employers rights but rather voiced the opinion that any opinion anyone, including myself, may have will have absolutely no impact on that negotiation but...it WILL stir up the mud here debating a pointless question. Pointless because?????? WE have no impact on that situation.

Have a beer I'll buy first round [emoji4]

I already figured you were union. Otherwise you would have had a long wise explanation of the virtues of the union in the beginning, not so much now. I do hold a little distaste for the union in its present state. The reason. My father was the biggest non union site prep contractor in NJ. Employed about 100 men. I watched him struggle to build this business. All was well until the oil embargo in the mid seventies. When work stoped for awhile he kept everyone working for about a year. Rebuilding equipment etc. As work slowly pick back up strange things happen. First equipment got vandalized. We would take turns guarding them. After that the threats. Calls come in about new job bids. Soon as he hung up the phone would ring again suggesting he pass on the bid. They would proceed to tell him where his wife and kids were and what they were doing. That went on for a few years. He let some jobs go still manage to keep the business going. He didn’t want to go union and get involved in the soprano style bidding that was already happening across state lines. The day came he started to consider it. That weekend he loaded up and left. I follow six months later. Four months after I moved into my first new house. We started over in Texas. A right to work state. I would say he did the moral thing. I believe unions serve a purpose no doubt, especially in large companies. I also believe hard work is rewarded, shouldn’t be forced. Those semi skilled workers are making plenty. Especially all that’s considered. I have no love for GM. I think there’re being held hostage. The union said if GMs last offer before the strike was sooner, there wouldn’t have been one. Two hours isn’t enough time to call it off? What the hell, it’s been a week. It’s just games.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Grumpy Bear · September 23, 2019

17 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

I already figured you were union. Otherwise you would have had a long wise explanation of the virtues of the union in the beginning, not so much now. I do hold a little distaste for the union in its present state. The reason. My father was the biggest non union site prep contractor in NJ. Employed about 100 men. I watched him struggle to build this business. All was well until the oil embargo in the mid seventies. When work stoped for awhile he kept everyone working for about a year. Rebuilding equipment etc. As work slowly pick back up strange things happen. First equipment got vandalized. We would take turns guarding them. After that the threats. Calls come in about new job bids. Soon as he hung up the phone would ring again suggesting he pass on the bid. They would proceed to tell him where his wife and kids were and what they were doing. That went on for a few years. He let some jobs go still manage to keep the business going. He didn’t want to go union and get involved in the soprano style bidding that was already happening across state lines. The day came he started to consider it. That weekend he loaded up and left. I follow six months later. Four months after I moved into my first new house. We started over in Texas. A right to work state. I would say he did the moral thing. I believe unions serve a purpose no doubt, especially in large companies. I also believe hard work is rewarded, shouldn’t be forced. Those semi skilled workers are making plenty. Especially all that’s considered. I have no love for GM. I think there’re being held hostage. The union said if GMs last offer before the strike was sooner, there wouldn’t have been one. Two hours isn’t enough time to call it off? What the hell, it’s been a week. It’s just games.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I figured you had a story that needed sharing. Exhale now.

TXGREEK · September 23, 2019

I agree, known a few in Unions, it’s you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours. Non Union, Private sector is the way to go, much more responsibility and pride through private businesses. All these unions in big companies are full of free loading slackers, sorta like the Democrat party, feeding off of the establishment [emoji6]

KARNUT · September 23, 2019

I agree, known a few in Unions, it’s you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours. Non Union, Private sector is the way to go, much more responsibility and pride through private businesses. All these unions in big companies are full of free loading slackers, sorta like the Democrat party, feeding off of the establishment [emoji6]

[emoji106]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yondu · September 24, 2019

On 9/19/2019 at 6:05 PM, ickyoldman said:

**** GM **** MARY BERRA I WILL NEVER PURCHASE ANOTHER GM VEHICLE CORPORATE GREED

I assume you're in the UAW.

Sounds more like lazy entitled worker greed to me.

TXGREEK · September 24, 2019

This is why the Japanese kicked our asses in literally everything because of Private business becomes successful through its hard working employees creating reliability and success. It all went to Hell once they moved their factories to America and Unions formed, same thing with BMW and Mercedes, piece of [emoji90] unless you buy the higher end models, know why? Cause the higher End models are not made in America or in Mexico lol

I support Made in America but this is why I’ve been swapping for newer vehicles every 2-3 years. The very best vehicle I’ve ever owned was my 1997 Toyota LandCruiser, made in Japan with a lateral frame, not this unibody BS!

Ok, I’ve vented enough, lol [emoji23]

anthony2558 · September 24, 2019

If your striking and your contract is expired then I say no. If you continue to work while you negotiate then yes.

anthony2558 · September 24, 2019

9 hours ago, TXGREEK said:

This is why the Japanese kicked our asses in literally everything because of Private business becomes successful through its hard working employees creating reliability and success. It all went to Hell once they moved their factories to America and Unions formed, same thing with BMW and Mercedes, piece of unless you buy the higher end models, know why? Cause the higher End models are not made in America or in Mexico lol

I support Made in America but this is why I’ve been swapping for newer vehicles every 2-3 years. The very best vehicle I’ve ever owned was my 1997 Toyota LandCruiser, made in Japan with a lateral frame, not this unibody BS!

Ok, I’ve vented enough, lol

Yes, but you also have to understand that today's automobiles are disposable. There made to last 10 years and then scrapped. It's not like the 50's when the family car was a one and done thing. Just like houses today, there assembled of poor quality products, just so that we can replace bathrooms, kitchens, appliances every 10 years to buy more crap quality products.