How well are these truck tires balanced at the factory?

[Thomcat]

Well, had the tires road force balanced today and regardless of comments - it did make a difference. At time of write up wouldn't come out under warranty because it was already in there that I had it done. I explained the 22"s are a stickered option that are received separately and dealer installed replacing the factory steel wheels. Evidently they did balancing at 4 miles, at the time of dealer prep and inspection. Told the service tech that's on you, I never received mine and they covered it under warranty.

 

Watched and spoke with the mechanic doing the work. Evidently the rears walked the rim more than the fronts and were way out of balance. Broke the beads and checked for runout all were good, then did a road force test to determine best position on the rim and a rebalance.

 

Made a significant difference, all but eliminating the rear wheel hop over expansion joints, even with the 300 lbs of crap over the rear wheels removed. On asphalt roads, dead smooth and quiet. more noise and a lot more roughness on concrete, but the previous vibrations peaking at 65 were all but gone. Evidently it workedso nop need for further diagnosis and cancelled my second appointment.

[jordanl010]

I am on my 6th trip back to the dealer, have done everything from transmission fluid swap regarding one of the service bulletins to road force balancing of the tires. How much of these things they actually did.... well that's a tough question. But just called them back after my 5th or 6th trip, after buying the truck just a month ago, letting them know ill be back in.....

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, Thomcat said:

Well, had the tires road force balanced today and regardless of comments - it did make a difference. 

I have never argued that road force balancing does not work. It most certainly does. What I've argued is that a tire that cannot be balanced without such extreme measures is flawed and flawed tires are dangerous. If you broke a belt or it shifted you would toss the tire but if the tire is made flawed you keep it. 

[Wheelguy]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I have never argued that road force balancing does not work. It most certainly does. What I've argued is that a tire that cannot be balanced without such extreme measures is flawed and flawed tires are dangerous. If you broke a belt or it shifted you would toss the tire but if the tire is made flawed you keep it. 

Hi Grumpy.  I'm going to hopefully engage in discussion rather than start another debate or non-constructive back & forth.  We're both wearing big boy pants, right?  I do see your point & did moreso after re-reading and thinking a bit (imagine that, someone thinking - you should be smiling, I'd hope).

 

I agree 100% concerning the tires are flawed, made more cheaply by the lowest bidder.  Wheels are definitely no different.  I will refer to that as recent automaking trends for lack of better words.  But, in an effort to help out an average truck owner and/or reader on the forums, how is said owner supposed to combat what is obviously the automaker's idea of saving wheels and/or tires and cutting the corners they're obviously cutting so they can make the money they expect/want to make?  I hope I'm being clear - it's not like everyone can or will demand certain levels of "service" to avoid getting what this day & age boils down to a perceived perfect or almost perfect tire.  Dealership or car maker isn't just going to eat all the costs today.  Many of those participating in this thread are more than likely taking their trucks in on warranty - not just any service/tire shop that may be a bit more trustworthy (what I'd consider possibly more apt to not cut the corners & have a bit larger scrap pile), if that should be considered.

 

Sure, we could all stop buying products - but is that really an option considering the number of people around this day & age?  Too many people willing to turn a blind eye & most don't have the passion to care that much.  Yeah, it's a shame but....tough to fight that fight if all brands are doing it one way or the other.  Plus there's the gotta have it folks.....I could go on & on....

Edited September 12, 2019 by Wheelguy

[KARNUT]

I’ve never had tire problems-vibrations like I read about here. I did have a scare recently with new tires for my wife’s car. Just put new ones on. They were down to the wear bars. I actually got a rebate from discount tires for the wearing before 60K mileage guarantee, 160$. Discount tire is the best. After driving it home smooth as glass. I took it out the day after vibrations driving a different way. I came back around and drove back the road I travel originally. Smooth as glass again. Sometimes it’s the road especially on smaller sidewall tires. Air pressure can affect the ride too. I took my Toyota down the same road no vibration. My Toyota isn’t a sport performance vehicle. Regular tires normal sidewall, more forgiving. Something to think about.


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[Thomcat]

3 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I have never argued that road force balancing does not work. It most certainly does. What I've argued is that a tire that cannot be balanced without such extreme measures is flawed and flawed tires are dangerous. If you broke a belt or it shifted you would toss the tire but if the tire is made flawed you keep it. 

First thing was mechanic checked for was runout....if out of round or treads squirmed when rotated would have to replace the tire. The difference in the rear is dramatic, before rear axle would hop hitting a weatherstrip in the road, now no worse than my '16 was and no more breakaway hop in fast turns. Fortunate rfb was all it needed.

[Jsdirt]

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

I’ve never had tire problems-vibrations like I read about here. I did have a scare recently with new tires for my wife’s car. Just put new ones on. They were down to the wear bars. I actually got a rebate from discount tires for the wearing before 60K mileage guarantee, 160$. Discount tire is the best. After driving it home smooth as glass. I took it out the day after vibrations driving a different way. I came back around and drove back the road I travel originally. Smooth as glass again. Sometimes it’s the road especially on smaller sidewall tires. Air pressure can affect the ride too. I took my Toyota down the same road no vibration. My Toyota isn’t a sport performance vehicle. Regular tires normal sidewall, more forgiving. Something to think about.


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Last 8 or so sets of tires I bought were from Discount Tire. They're usually the best pricing out there, and the date codes of the tires are always this year, unlike some other places.

 

I see lots of tires on my balancer that hop, or wiggle when spinning. Nearly every single tire does it these days. I can usually balance it out to where nobody will notice, unless they have a habit of cruising at 110 MPH.

[Wheelguy]

Wheels aren’t as perfect as one might think - some would be more accurately described as eggs in some cases regarding their roundness. You’d think that would affect the resulting shape of the tire tread overall once it stretches around the wheel & seats in the beads - how it stretches in the sidewall areas.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Wheelguy

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, Wheelguy said:

Hi Grumpy.  I'm going to hopefully engage in discussion rather than start another debate or non-constructive back & forth.  We're both wearing big boy pants, right?  I do see your point & did more so after re-reading and thinking a bit (imagine that, someone thinking - you should be smiling, I'd hope).

 

Sure, we could all stop buying products - but is that really an option considering the number of people around this day & age?  Too many people willing to turn a blind eye & most don't have the passion to care that much.  Yeah, it's a shame but....tough to fight that fight if all brands are doing it one way or the other.  Plus there's the gotta have it folks.....I could go on & on....

Absolutely. I like a good discussion as much as anyone. I understand passion and emotion get in the way of rationality and clear exchange at times. I loose to it once in awhile myself. Likely did this time as well. We're good. 

 

Like Stan I've bought allot of tires and those that won't spin balance with reasonable weight I haven't found to be a large percentage of the data population. But it will become so IF we keep accepting crap at a premium price. That sound fair? 

 

Like Jsdirt I've seen allot of wigglers. I've also seen many of those corrected with a bit of patients and experience. Out of round. That one is problem enough a few manufactures now use to advertise as a point of sale. Saw it on the Tire Rack sight. Minimal out of round can be shaved. Tire rack provides this service as well. Leading brands I personally haven't had a single issue with. Discount brands are another story. 

 

I have a position I take with the dealer. Stand by your product or loose me and all who belong to me. I provide the guarantee. I guarantee to not buy from that dealer or that manufacture ever again. Does it have an impact? Likely not but there are so many that it hardly matters.  If everyone did that we would all be driving the last man standing and no one as a buyer would suffer any repeated inconvenience whatsoever. 

 

Building a good working repour with your preferred tire guy buys you allot of latitude. You haven't any leverage other that walking away but he has tons. Use it to your advantage. I order 8 to 12 and take the best 4 and pay the man well to find those gems. 

[Grumpy Bear]

14 minutes ago, Wheelguy said:

Wheels aren’t as perfect as one might think - some would be more accurately described as eggs in some cases regarding their roundness. You’d think that would affect the resulting shape of the tire tread overall once it stretches around the wheel & seats in the beads - how it stretches in the sidewall areas.

Chicago wheel and rim straightened three of my Buicks $800 a pop no longer available rims. $125 a piece. Those guys even fix broken alloy rims. Steel is a matter of selection. But yes, put the best tire on an egg and scrambled eggs is what you get.

 

[Wheelguy]

5 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Chicago wheel and rim straightened three of my Buicks $800 a pop no longer available rims. $125 a piece. Those guys even fix broken alloy rims. Steel is a matter of selection. But yes, put the best tire on an egg and scrambled eggs is what you get.

 

Keeping in mind my experience is with aluminum wheels, I’m shocked you’d go for a repaired wheel. I won’t touch those places unless it’s very, very minor repair. I’ve seen those places make repairs to wheels that they have no business doing & I promise are more dangerous or risk of danger than any RFB tire. They aren’t required to validate their work through durability testing, that I am aware. Some of those that at least have some sense of liability might, but most do not.

 

Now, with that said, it also depends on what the damage is & where. Usually, if you can see wrinkles in the aluminum in the area of deformity, it’s junk - that’s what it looks like just before opening up & becoming a crack. Very slight bends or warping you might sell me on - a fairly hard impact, particularly a pothole - nope. Spokes could be cracked too & not seen.

[Wheelguy]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Like Stan I've bought allot of tires and those that won't spin balance with reasonable weight I haven't found to be a large percentage of the data population. But it will become so IF we keep accepting crap at a premium price. That sound fair?

Yes, fair. I do agree with you to a point. I just don’t feel a typical consumer is going to take a stand for that sort of principle this day & age. Not too many people of average intelligence left, really. You’re talking about a consumer that today will drop $1k on a smart phone but typically want to pay bottom dollar for maintaining their vehicle. Being trendy vs. safety - OK. The same consumer that will resort to violence if you were to look at their kid funny or even dare to offer the special snowflake some constructive criticism or god forbid a teacher discipline the little f*ck but then turn right around a drive while texting and speeding at least 10mph over the limit with that same little demon in the car with them and who also has a smartphone.  Sorry, but I tend to feel Idiocracy has arrived (great movie btw). Forgive me if I sound pessimistic - no faith we’re getting smarter & better as a whole. Too much shady stuff still going on all in the name of a buck.

 

I would like to continue further but my eyes are shot for the day. Have been sitting in front of a computer since 8:30, 10 hours of it was grabbing design packaging data off of some 2023 Caddy SUV of which to design our assemblies around. Very slow & tedious work but very cool too - entire vehicle represented in a 3D model - down to adhesive beads & frame welds. Also cool getting a sneak peeks as to what will be coming & about which some will be whining as well.

 

Will pick up tomorrow or over weekend - great info here IMO & more to come I’m sure.

 

[Grumpy Bear]

7 hours ago, Wheelguy said:

Yes, fair. I do agree with you to a point. I just don’t feel a typical consumer is going to take a stand for that sort of principle this day & age. Not too many people of average intelligence left, really. You’re talking about a consumer that today will drop $1k on a smart phone but typically want to pay bottom dollar for maintaining their vehicle. Being trendy vs. safety - OK. The same consumer that will resort to violence if you were to look at their kid funny or even dare to offer the special snowflake some constructive criticism or god forbid a teacher discipline the little f*ck but then turn right around a drive while texting and speeding at least 10mph over the limit with that same little demon in the car with them and who also has a smartphone.  Sorry, but I tend to feel Idiocracy has arrived (great movie btw). Forgive me if I sound pessimistic - no faith we’re getting smarter & better as a whole. Too much shady stuff still going on all in the name of a buck.

 

I would like to continue further but my eyes are shot for the day. Have been sitting in front of a computer since 8:30, 10 hours of it was grabbing design packaging data off of some 2023 Caddy SUV of which to design our assemblies around. Very slow & tedious work but very cool too - entire vehicle represented in a 3D model - down to adhesive beads & frame welds. Also cool getting a sneak peeks as to what will be coming & about which some will be whining as well.

 

Will pick up tomorrow or over weekend - great info here IMO & more to come I’m sure.

 

Now here is a post I can agree with. You can't fix stupid. (highlighted part made me laugh out loud) Thanks! 

 

On the wheel post. Yes not everything is reparable and there are shady operators in that field like anywhere else. It, again, is a place a bit of sense is required. On the other hand, do not kid yourself into believing all alloy wheels meet some exceling testing spec. If the wheel passes Zyglo testing, which can be done at home, it's as solid at it has ever been since the day it was cast. 100% of all metal stress/strain/impact failures start at the surface. Even welded ones.

 

I took that measure with my 2009 Buick because, and as I said, the wheel is no longer in production. It is the OEM fitment. The reproductions are not 'real' chrome anymore and it is a mint garage kept low mile prize I cherish. Two years of searching showed nothing useable on the Internet resale market. 

[Wheelguy]

12 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Now here is a post I can agree with. You can't fix stupid. (highlighted part made me laugh out loud) Thanks! 

 

On the wheel post. Yes not everything is reparable and there are shady operators in that field like anywhere else. It, again, is a place a bit of sense is required. On the other hand, do not kid yourself into believing all alloy wheels meet some exceling testing spec. If the wheel passes Zyglo testing, which can be done at home, it's as solid at it has ever been since the day it was cast. 100% of all metal stress/strain/impact failures start at the surface. Even welded ones.

 

I took that measure with my 2009 Buick because, and as I said, the wheel is no longer in production. It is the OEM fitment. The reproductions are not 'real' chrome anymore and it is a mint garage kept low mile prize I cherish. Two years of searching showed nothing useable on the Internet resale market. 

Sure, I get it and I didn’t intend to imply that all repair is unsafe either. Some rim related straightening that in comparison may not be any worse than the worst tire, OK.  But for me, anything more than something like that, say from a severe pothole or impact (hard curb hit, wreck) I wouldn’t do it even for free

 

For me, it’s not so much a matter of visible cracks, it’s a matter of whether the metal has gone past its elasticity & into the plastic region in regards to its yield. Nothing other than a tensile test will measure that & that also directly correlates (in part) to fatigue life. Each time the metal moves, it’s being rearranged at a microscopic level. Granted, I’m sort of splitting hairs with a slightly bent wheel but I’m also considering a wheel I wouldn’t & I’m almost certain you wouldn’t repair but the average Joe - welllllll.......I’d say he probably would and without being resourceful enough to consider penetrant inspection as you did.

 

Let me put it to you this way. The wheel company for which I worked didn’t repair anything other than cosmetic defects or by recutting the design face (called refacing) such that critical dimensions didn’t exceed print tolerances. By saying that, I’m talking about having a department, equipment & staffing to make those repairs. If a wheel was dropped from knee high, it was scrapped & melted. For me, that spoke volumes as to where to draw the line - and I saw many 2 & 3 high pallets (72 to 108 wheels total) dropped when forklifts were moving them around & turned a bit too fast with forks raised at full height. Good lord the clanging sound still resonates in my mind LOL. An event where everyone in the manufacturing area would turn to see who was driving. Each & every wheel wasn’t even inspected, just straight to the melt department.

 

That’s all a personal preference - not saying you’re right or wrong or for that instance & situation it wasn’t wise to seek repair. Just stating my reasons for being much more skeptical or cautious. It’s also common that when a wheel has been damaged or deformed, many things can/could and do happen - cracks, hoop strength lost, spokes bent, lessening yield strength & not each & every one of those things are repairable or measurable (unless you destroy the wheel - tensile test). Those repairs can only be done so many times before cracks do become visible & we’re not even taking into consideration heat application which makes the (at least aluminum) more brittle. However, it would more than likely take more than a single repair for heat to become a major factor.

 

More later regarding your original response regarding RFB, of which we’ve gotten a bit side tracked.

 

EDITED - SEE BOLD ABOVE

Edited September 14, 2019 by Wheelguy

[Sin City Trail Boss]

Truck is back for tire vibrations.

 

The last text I got my from service rep is that they need another day with it.

 

He said: "Gm is having us do a vibration test procedure"

 

Whatever that means.