Duramax 3.0 and Payload

ChuckTaylor · July 25, 2019

Given MrTruck's review showing a 2WD RST Double Cab Duramax with an 1810 Payload: https://youtu.be/JY24dIhSop4?t=73

VIN: 1gcrwdet6kz286452 if someone knows how to pull more info on the truck...

From the order guide it looks like the:

2WD DC Duramax has a 6900lbs GVWR (same as 2WD CC 5.3 without NHT)

4WD DC Duramax has a 7100lbs GVWR (same as 4WD CC 5.3/6.2 without NHT)

4WD CC Duramax has a 7200lbs GVWR (weight class all on its own)

Except the AT4 has -100lbs GVWR for any of the above weight ratings - but guessing Denali has more than 100lbs in options.

We are looking for a tech package so that means either LTZ or AT4...
Which 4WD variant would give us the most payload -- and what are the chances of it being over 1500lbs?

I've tried to infer something from the payload sticker bed and it looks like LTZ DC would be the best bet, just haven't found a gas RST 2WD in that thread to correlate the numbers.

Also is there a way the dealer will know what the payload sticker on the door will be when they order?

HondaHawkGT · July 25, 2019

You're pretty much guaranteed to get a truck with a payload rating over 1500 lbs. A loaded 2019 Silverado HC 4x4 CCSB that Car & Driver tested had a 1,600 lb payload rating (7100 lb GVWR). It also had the Tech Package with HUD and multi-camera system.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a24851287/2019-chevy-silverado-pickup-high-country-by-the-numbers/

The build and price tool does allow you to build an LTZ with the max trailering package that includes a 7300 lb GVWR in a CCSB configuration. That would probably give a couple extra hundred lbs breathing room on payload rating.

Not sure on the dealer knowing what the final payload rating will be when they order. None of the manufacturers make it easy to know that number ahead of time. Your best bet would be to find a truck with the same trim and configuration, and see what its payload rating is on the sticker.

Edited July 25, 2019 by HondaHawkGT

ChuckTaylor · July 25, 2019

Unfortunately they had gas. My concern is from the other brands' diesels having wayyyy lower payloads - like 1200-1300lbs in Lariats.

I found the attached truck (2WD DC RST 5.3) with a curb of 4935 or 271 less than the 2WD RST 3.0 that Mr Truck had. So I'm guessing the diesel adds about 271 lbs then. The 5.3 vs 6.2 seems to be about a 70 lbs difference as well which would make the 6.2->3.0 weight 200 lbs. CC/DC LTZ seem to run in the 5300-5400 range with 6.2s which would put the diesels in the 5500-5600 range putting the diesel LTZ right at about 1500-1600 payload.

Still a lot of potential for error in my guess: I'm comparing a sample of one 3.0 RST to one 5.3 RST -- so plenty of opportunity for error there. And since I don't have any stickers on 5.3 LTZ without the Z71 I'm having to infer between those two. But it still looks like going with aluminum instead of CGI like Ford is paying off...

Edited July 25, 2019 by ChuckTaylor

HondaHawkGT · July 26, 2019

4 hours ago, ChuckTaylor said:

Unfortunately they had gas. My concern is from the other brands' diesels having wayyyy lower payloads - like 1200-1300lbs in Lariats.

I found the attached truck (2WD DC RST 5.3) with a curb of 4935 or 271 less than the 2WD RST 3.0 that Mr Truck had. So I'm guessing the diesel adds about 271 lbs then. The 5.3 vs 6.2 seems to be about a 70 lbs difference as well which would make the 6.2->3.0 weight 200 lbs. CC/DC LTZ seem to run in the 5300-5400 range with 6.2s which would put the diesels in the 5500-5600 range putting the diesel LTZ right at about 1500-1600 payload.

Still a lot of potential for error in my guess: I'm comparing a sample of one 3.0 RST to one 5.3 RST -- so plenty of opportunity for error there. And since I don't have any stickers on 5.3 LTZ without the Z71 I'm having to infer between those two. But it still looks like going with aluminum instead of CGI like Ford is paying off...

The Ram having lower payloads with the diesel engine isn't a surprise. Car and Driver's 2019 Ram Limited with 5.7 Hemi only had a payload rating of 990 lbs. Most configurations of a 2019 Ram have real world payload ratings that are a few hundred pounds lower than competing trucks from Ford or GM. Ram claimed they improved payload ratings with the new truck but it seems that most trims didn't get much of a boost in payload ratings.

The F-150's payload ratings really depend on how the truck was equipped. I see that in the brochure they only have one suspension setup for the 3.0 Powerstroke. 7100 lb GVWR and a 1,720 lb payload rating, which is 360 lbs lower than the same truck (WB and GVWR) with the 5.0 Coyote. I think part of the problem is that Ford really isn't pushing the diesel option as hard as Ram or GM are. They really don't offer the engine in many truck configurations or allow you to get a heavy duty payload package with it. I think it's mainly around to get the fuel economy credits for CAFE.

Your 1500-1600 lb payload estimate is probably pretty close for an LTZ. It really depends on how many optional add-ons you choose. It's a shame that the tech package with the multi-camera setup is limited to the LTZ trim and up.

ChuckTaylor · July 26, 2019

I'm really not sure what the other manufacturers were doing when they came up with their 1/2 ton Diesels. The good news is LTZ vs Lariat vs Laramie - the gas version of the LTZ has the highest payload to start with and it seems GM's engine is the lightest. I'm hoping now that EPA numbers are up some of the press embargos will lift and more of the press will start sharing numbers - like the LTZ Z71 that some got to test.

For GMC the future of the engine doesn't seem to bright though. The AT4 already has a lot of weight on it and they are giving GVWRs 100lbs less than Chevy in the AT4. The Denali is the heaviest curb weight truck I have in my spreadsheet thus far.

ChuckTaylor · July 28, 2019

Newest GM order guide specs publish curb weights. Here are all the values from the Sierra/Silverado diesel variants and the 5.3/6.2. Last two columns are the difference between the Diesel (LM2) and the L84 (5.3)/L87(6.2)

Interesting variation where the specs list the diesel losing up to 120 lbs vs the 6.2 in some cases and gaining up to 220 in others.

According to this (suspect) data, the highest payload will be a tie for the 2WD and 4WD Crew Cab with Short Bed, followed by 4WD CC long bed (60lbs penalty).

Also interesting: no diesel weights for lifted trucks listed...

lrtexasman · July 28, 2019

On 7/25/2019 at 11:48 PM, HondaHawkGT said:

The Ram having lower payloads with the diesel engine isn't a surprise. Car and Driver's 2019 Ram Limited with 5.7 Hemi only had a payload rating of 990 lbs. Most configurations of a 2019 Ram have real world payload ratings that are a few hundred pounds lower than competing trucks from Ford or GM. Ram claimed they improved payload ratings with the new truck but it seems that most trims didn't get much of a boost in payload ratings.

The F-150's payload ratings really depend on how the truck was equipped. I see that in the brochure they only have one suspension setup for the 3.0 Powerstroke. 7100 lb GVWR and a 1,720 lb payload rating, which is 360 lbs lower than the same truck (WB and GVWR) with the 5.0 Coyote. I think part of the problem is that Ford really isn't pushing the diesel option as hard as Ram or GM are. They really don't offer the engine in many truck configurations or allow you to get a heavy duty payload package with it. I think it's mainly around to get the fuel economy credits for CAFE.

Your 1500-1600 lb payload estimate is probably pretty close for an LTZ. It really depends on how many optional add-ons you choose. It's a shame that the tech package with the multi-camera setup is limited to the LTZ trim and up.

The F150 PowerStroke is not selling at all. I was looking at buying one a couple months ago and could have easily gotten between 18k and 20k off a 2018. There was a major recall on them with the EGR By-Pass valve due to a screw that could fall out and into the engine block on trucks built between 09/17-10/18, which likely scared some buyers away. Plus I think the for Ford fans the ECO 3.5 matches/exceeds the diesel performance without the extra fuel and maintenance costs. GM really doesn't have that option (the 2.7 has a low tow rating). I am hoping the Duramax avoids issues like this one. The Ecodiesel and Titan Cummins also had a lot of issues as well for the first couple years as well. I am going to buy to a GM or Ford diesel just want to get one with as little issues as possible. I do like the fact the PowerStroke has a 5 year/100k engine warranty and I expect GM to follow suite to match the 3.0 Duramax warranty with the 6.6 5 year/100k warranty. I like the idea of a straight six and increased F/E as well. Not too worried about losing a bit of payload or towing vrs F150. I just want to be able to get 25+ MPG on my long drives, payload around 1500 lbs, and be able to tow 5000 lbs with ease and 15 MPG F/E.

Edited July 28, 2019 by lrtexasman

ChuckTaylor · July 28, 2019

At least GM scales that GVWR. People want crew cabs, especially those that are paying for upper trim levels. 1200lbs of payload on a Lariat PS CC isn't much when your trailer has 800lbs of tongue. Not sure what one would do with a RAM with only 990lbs...

lrtexasman · July 28, 2019

What good is a crew cab if you cant carry your "crew," supplies, and tow a decent trailer to a job site or family vacation, lol.

ChuckTaylor · July 28, 2019

If these number are accurate, it looks like the LTZ would be around 1700lbs payload based on the average curb weights of LTZ I found. If that's the case, take my money now.

If its below 1500, I'm probably going for a Ford or RAM HD truck for adaptive cruise.

Edited July 28, 2019 by ChuckTaylor

HondaHawkGT · July 29, 2019

16 hours ago, ChuckTaylor said:

If these number are accurate, it looks like the LTZ would be around 1700lbs payload based on the average curb weights of LTZ I found. If that's the case, take my money now.

If its below 1500, I'm probably going for a Ford or RAM HD truck for adaptive cruise.

GM is adding adaptive cruise for 2020.

ChuckTaylor · July 29, 2019

Not in the HD trucks unfortunately.

JR09country · July 29, 2019

Thank you for posting the curb weights. I could not find them anywhere online, i cant believe how light some if these trucks are.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

ChuckTaylor · July 29, 2019

It takes some searching, best I have found is to upload a placard (any GM truck placard) to google images search, typing what you are looking for with that placard. IE "2019 Silverado 1500 High Country" and then clicking on the visually similar link on the results page. Then you just need to go through the results and weed out packages that will be similar to what you want (ie anything with a sunroof, protection panels, other stuff that adds weight). No guarantees at the end as what we've seen with the Duramax thus far is still pre-mass production.

Wintersun · July 29, 2019

Payload rating depends on the rear tires more than anything else. If the truck itself at the rear axle weighs 3000 lbs and the rear axle and related components are rated for a load of 6000 lbs the payload becomes 3000 lbs but this is based on how the truck leaves the factory and the leaf springs used and the tires on the wheels. The tires provided are the limiting factor with a 2500 truck but a with a Silverado 1500 with LT265/70R17E tires the limiting factor is either the axle or the rear leaf springs. The 2500 trucks have a rear axle and wheel bearings rated for more than 9,000 lbs even with the gas engine, but the 1500 with its rear axle rated for 6,000 lbs should have a high load capacity.

Based on the tow rating for the 1500 trucks towing a 5th wheel trailer up to 10000 lbs the limitation would appear to be the factory leaf springs. I would check on the double leaf spring kits from SuperSprings as a safe way to increase payload capacity on a 1500 truck by 1500 lbs at the rear axle. At least with the GM trucks having leaf springs this actually is very effective. With Ram pickups and their coil springs one is limited to airbags or devices that limit axle travel and make for a much harsher ride.

I used Supersprings to increase the load capacity of my 2500HD truck to where it can easily handle a 4,000 lb payload in the bed and be level and minimal sway in turns. The shocks were much more effective after adding the Supersprings as with less travel of the springs the shocks were not over extended and ran cooler and did not have to work as hard.