Max Trailer Package = Sporty Ride

econometrics · August 5, 2019

16 minutes ago, protovack said:

Guys doing real work only buy 2500s? Then why does GM produce a 1500 with payload and towing numbers as you detailed above? Plenty of people do tons of work in their 1500s. Maybe not in DFW.

Because GM knows that #s are what sell in the truck game. Perception is everything. How many 1500 owners will ever routinely tow 10K+ #? Barely any. But that tow rating sells, baby. Gotta have the bigger, badder truck, even when most of us just ride down the road in them.

Die-hard truck owners have a hard time stomaching the reality that the modern 1500 truck is a highway car. The stats on this are pretty clear. Read page 8 of this recent report.

protovack · August 5, 2019

24 minutes ago, econometrics said:

This is not very complex. It's all about GVWR. Reduce the truck's weight from 5K to 4K and you will reduce the amount of gross weight the truck is rated for. The rear springs are just one of many parts of the chassis that determines GM's GVWR for the truck.

The point is that the common argument for poor ride on the T1 rear ends is "The truck is lighter!" It doesn't hold mathematical weight, sorry. Payload is simply the total GVWR of the truck less the weight of the truck itself. The loss in weight on the T1 is absorbed in the loss of GVWR. If anything, the T1 should ride BETTER, since the GVWR is lower.

And to your question of "What is the sacrifice?" The answer is not durability, it is profit margin. Because a better dampening rear shock absorber would greatly improve the ride control of the leaf springs.

Everything else held equal or proportionate, a lighter truck is not going to feel as stable as a heavier one. Why have people been putting sandbags in pickup beds for eons? I agree that a different shock setup would control the leaf springs more. But then you have to question, why? What is the goal? If the goal is load bearing and durability, then changing shocks "to better control the leaf springs" may not be the best idea. Generally in a truck you don't want to "control the leaf springs" more, you want to let them be leaf springs and gain the advantages of said leaf springs. That is, if payload and durability is your goal.

Do you really believe FCA doesn't desire good profit margins on their trucks? They have huge profit margins as well, and they cut costs just like GM, except they do it more on the production line and in the service department.

Edited August 5, 2019 by protovack

econometrics · August 5, 2019

5 minutes ago, protovack said:

Everything else held equal or proportionate, a lighter truck is not going to feel as stable as a heavier one. Why have people been putting sandbags in pickup beds for eons? I agree that a different shock setup would control the leaf springs more. But then you have to question, why? What is the goal? If the goal is load bearing and durability, then changing shocks "to better control the leaf springs" may not be the best idea. Generally in a truck you don't want to "control the leaf springs" more, you want to let them be leaf springs and gain the advantages of said leaf springs. That is, if payload and durability is your goal.

Do you really believe FCA doesn't desire good profit margins on their trucks? They have huge profit margins as well, and they cut costs just like GM, except they do it more on the production line and in the service department.

We're talking about a 6% reduction in weight here. If that's enough to make the truck behave worse on the road, then GM engineers need help.

FCA does, indeed, want profit margin. And they have (rightly) realized that the truck ride will bring more buyers in today's truck-buying market than having a 2000ish pound payload rating.

Look, I like my 2019 Silverado. I just think the rear end sucks absorbing bumps at speed. My 2007 LT 1500 managed the same bumps much better. Okay my 2007 "only" had a payload rating for 1600. My 2019 is close to 1800. So I guess I cannot load up the rear end with sod, and then allow my fat friends to ride along anymore with my RST.

protovack · August 5, 2019

Oh I totally get you man. The race to having crazy high payload numbers, and simultaneously making the truck lighter and lighter to satisfy MPG requirements, has made these trucks feels very "skippy" on the road. And that is frustrating. Was your 2007 better at handling the bumps when you first bought it? Or is this possibly a case of having to break in the suspension, and then a few years down the road it settles in and is more compliant with road imperfections?

There have definitely been a few times I've been thankful for my K2s great payload rating. The last time, I was buying rock for a landscape project and I put 1500 pounds worth in the back. The truck never felt better on the highway. But other times, it certainly is skippy on poor roads, going around corners, at highway speeds. The worst was coming down a mountain pass, with lots of divots and poorly paved sections, combined with mountain turns. I definitely had to slow things down because the back end was just skipping out everywhere. The thing to remember is that if you have a load in the bed that won't happen nearly as much or at all. All I"m saying is, it IS possible to learn to appreciate this setup. I don't believe these trucks have this setup because GM is greedy and want to screw you out of a good performing truck. That said I haven't driven a T1 yet, but have heard from multiple people that they drive and feel great.

Edited August 5, 2019 by protovack

econometrics · August 5, 2019

2 hours ago, protovack said:

All I"m saying is, it IS possible to learn to appreciate this setup. I don't believe these trucks have this setup because GM is greedy and want to screw you out of a good performing truck. That said I haven't driven a T1 yet, but have heard from multiple people that they drive and feel great.

The T1 drives fantastically. Handles like a beast, IMO. WAY better than my 2007.

I *am* probably going to drop 200-300# of something in the back of my RST, though. A lot cheaper than buying new Bilsteins. At least for now. I don't think that much weight would kill my MPG, and I do know it will help on those harsh bumps at hwy speeds.

Jack D · August 5, 2019

I have an LTZ with 6.2/10-speed and Max Towing. It has the 20" wheels with AT tires. I bought it for towing our 29' travel trailer, while hauling the rest of our camping/towing gear (300 lbs. max) in the truck bed. I pump tires up to 41psi for towing, but reduce pressure to normal for daily driving. I leave some of the gear loaded in the bed, unless I have to remove it to haul something.

The ride is firm, but smooth. Leaf springs and live axles can always bounce you around when on poor roads with no load in the back, especially when cornering. Since I use ours as a truck, I prefer the leaf springs to coil spring suspension. Better stability when towing. Bottom line is that I'm pleased overall with the ride and handling, especially for a truck spec'd to handle a load.

aseibel · August 6, 2019

17 hours ago, econometrics said:

The T1 drives fantastically. Handles like a beast, IMO. WAY better than my 2007.

I *am* probably going to drop 200-300# of something in the back of my RST, though. A lot cheaper than buying new Bilsteins. At least for now. I don't think that much weight would kill my MPG, and I do know it will help on those harsh bumps at hwy speeds.

I hope you do it. And report back here with your findings. Remember, to maximize the effectiveness of your extra weight, place it all they way back along the tailgate. Cut a 2x6 to fit across the bed to hold them back there. Adding 200# near the rear bumper will go a long way to move the center of gravity toward the center of the truck. That will make a noticeable difference in ride quality over bumps.

econometrics · August 6, 2019

46 minutes ago, aseibel said:

I hope you do it. And report back here with your findings. Remember, to maximize the effectiveness of your extra weight, place it all they way back along the tailgate. Cut a 2x6 to fit across the bed to hold them back there. Adding 200# near the rear bumper will go a long way to move the center of gravity toward the center of the truck. That will make a noticeable difference in ride quality over bumps.

Thanks for the tip about the 2x6. Good idea.

Yes, I'll do it sometime soon and report back. I'm more than sure it will improve the ride. The only drawback with this method is that I will have 200# of stuff in the back whenever I need to use the bed. Oh well.