Max Trailer Package = Sporty Ride

OnTheReel · July 30, 2019

14 minutes ago, Belo said:

fair enough. But i dont see anything that would drastically affect the ride quality when going from a z71 to max trailering except possibly the tires..

Pretty much everything is different, including the tires (although you can still order the Z71’s all terrain tires separately).

Max Trailering has the “handling / trailering suspension” with heavier rear springs (RGAWR is 350lbs higher) and “revised shock tuning for increased control”.

The Z71 also has it’s own suspension package with Rancho shocks.

You might be surprised how different the two trucks handle driven back to back.

Belo · July 30, 2019

1 hour ago, OnTheReel said:

Pretty much everything is different, including the tires (although you can still order the Z71’s all terrain tires separately).

Max Trailering has the “handling / trailering suspension” with heavier rear springs (RGAWR is 350lbs higher) and “revised shock tuning for increased control”.

The Z71 also has it’s own suspension package with Rancho shocks.

You might be surprised how different the two trucks handle driven back to back.

why doesn't it mention the different shocks in the description. not trying to be argumentative, but it certainly isn't intuitive with the build and price feature.

Roscopcoletrain · July 30, 2019

14 minutes ago, Belo said:

why doesn't it mention the different shocks in the description. not trying to be argumentative, but it certainly isn't intuitive with the build and price feature.

z71 gets the white Ranchos. Max Trailering gets black shocks

OnTheReel · July 30, 2019

23 minutes ago, Belo said:

why doesn't it mention the different shocks in the description. not trying to be argumentative, but it certainly isn't intuitive with the build and price feature.

I agree. It gets a little more specific in the order guide, but they still don’t mention the Rancho shocks by name in the Z71 package.

BlackRST · August 2, 2019

On 7/23/2019 at 9:17 PM, econometrics said:

My RST Z71 handles extremely well. The ride, however, can be pretty bad at times. It really just depends on the road.

Here in DFW, we have some bad sections of road and highway, and those are usually always concrete, which is much less forgiving. Whenever I’m on newer paved asphalt, the RST rides considerably better.

Lowering my PSI helped a good bit, but I’m still eager to get some Bilsteins to replace my Ranchos.

What do you run your PSI at? Ive been debating dropping mine to 33-34 because after about 2-3 mins of driving theyre up to 37...after starting at 34. Ive heard many people talk about that really helping the ride. (Granted im coming for an import car with a fully done suspension) So anything is more comfy and softer haha.

Thomcat · August 2, 2019

On 7/24/2019 at 10:55 AM, econometrics said:

I do agree with that.

The only 22" GM wheel I like is the Chevy black-out one. That thing looks GOOD.

Don't miss the slipping and sliding in really sharp turns of the 18s on my '16 Z71. Test rode all sizes on the '19s

The stock premium 285/50 22R Bridgestone Alenzas on my RST look good and ride great on smooth blacktop and highways........not so smooth, but not so rough either on broken roads or concrete with expansion strips...no worse than my '16 on the same pavement surfaces.......it's still a truck, when compared to a dead smooth riding Traverse. Chose the $3000 option because the handling especially in Sport mode puts the smaller donuts to shame, salesman sure earned his pay that day.....his screams and backroad hairpin turns convinced me that the 22's were the way to go. Like you're geared into the road.

econometrics · August 2, 2019

3 hours ago, BlackRST said:

What do you run your PSI at? Ive been debating dropping mine to 33-34 because after about 2-3 mins of driving theyre up to 37...after starting at 34. Ive heard many people talk about that really helping the ride. (Granted im coming for an import car with a fully done suspension) So anything is more comfy and softer haha.

I dropped mine to 32 cold on the front and 34 on the rear. My door sticker says 32 front, 35 rear.

But yeah, they usually both end up around 35/36 once I'm driving for a bit.

It definitely helps the ride some. It's not going to make it ride like a sedan at all, and it will still be harsh over some rough bumps, but it does help. Changing the shocks would help some, too. We're all just waiting for the Bilstein's to come out for the T1 trucks.

econometrics · August 2, 2019

1 hour ago, Thomcat said:

Don't miss the slipping and sliding in really sharp turns of the 18s on my '16 Z71. Test rode all sizes on the '19s

The stock premium 285/50 22R Bridgestone Alenzas on my RST look good and ride great on smooth blacktop and highways........not so smooth, but not so rough either on broken roads or concrete with expansion strips...no worse than my '16 on the same pavement surfaces.......it's still a truck, when compared to a dead smooth riding Traverse. Chose the $3000 option because the handling especially in Sport mode puts the smaller donuts to shame, salesman sure earned his pay that day.....his screams and backroad hairpin turns convinced me that the 22's were the way to go. Like you're geared into the road.

Alenzas are good tires. I'm sure your Alenzas ride about the same as my Wrangler Trailrunner ATs, which have a firmer sidewall as an AT tire, even though my wheel is a 20" and yours a 22".

I've always run Michelin LTX MS 2s on my 20" Silverado before. I'm sure that would smooth out my ride a good bit, but I've decided to keep the AT tires on this truck, as I like having the extra traction if needed. (though the LTX is probably just as good, if we're being honest. It's a helluva tire).

Thomcat · August 3, 2019

Noticed another thing with the Alenza.....don't seem to heat up........90 degrees outside and according to the DIC starting at 36 psi and after 15 miles of 65 mph highway driving only at 37 psi.

And seems they were overinflated sticker calls for 35 psi not 36.....put at 34.5 psi using a quality Jaco gauge and thje ride is much improved going over weatherstrips on concrete roads.

protovack · August 4, 2019

There are a lot of new truck buyers out there, who don't know what a truck is and how they drive. They are younger, and see them as a "do-everything" vehicle, but they don't necessarily realize what they are buying. These trucks are designed to work, and flying around the highway at 70mph unloaded it's very easy to tell these trucks have a heavy duty leaf spring suspension. They skip, they skew, they get a little squirrel-y. That is the price you pay for cheap rugged performance.

And these problems actually get worse as the truck gets lighter. That's why the T1 trucks seems worse than the K2. Yes the MPG is awesome for the T1 but there is no free lunch.The T1 is so light that its inherent ride issues are magnified. Putting 500lbs of sandbags in the bed of your truck will significantly improve things like skipping, wheel hop, etc. And in general, having a load in the bed or a trailer will significantly improve the ride quality, and incidentally, usually also improves the shifting characteristics of the transmissions because these trucks and drivetrains are all extensively tested under LOAD and designed to have the desired dynamics under a load. Unloaded the trucks are like springs bouncing around everywhere.

It's almost like Chevy needs to bring back the Avalanche. Sell a crew cab SUV with a bed but with all independent suspension, low payload and towing numbers, to satisfy the "pickup as a city cruiser" crowd.

OP, read this:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/leaf-springs-advantages-and-disadvantages/

Just be glad you got a real truck and not a RAM with air suspension that's going to fail after the warranty period and cost you $5000.

Edited August 4, 2019 by protovack

econometrics · August 4, 2019

5 hours ago, protovack said:

And these problems actually get worse as the truck gets lighter. That's why the T1 trucks seems worse than the K2. Yes the MPG is awesome for the T1 but there is no free lunch.The T1 is so light that its inherent ride issues are magnified. Putting 500lbs of sandbags in the bed of your truck will significantly improve things like skipping, wheel hop, etc. And in general, having a load in the bed or a trailer will significantly improve the ride quality, and incidentally, usually also improves the shifting characteristics of the transmissions because these trucks and drivetrains are all extensively tested under LOAD and designed to have the desired dynamics under a load. Unloaded the trucks are like springs bouncing around everywhere.

First, most of those who are bringing (legitimate) criticism of the Silverado ride are not expecting it to ride like a car. Chevy says they spent over 7,000 hours real world testing the new T1 platform. It's fair to be critical of GM when they claim that, yet still sell a truck that has a walking rear end over stutter bumps at speed.

One of the likely reasons buyers are moving to the RAM platform is because FCA realizes that very few truck buyers will ever use the truck's full payload capacities. I live in the truck capital of the world, DFW. Most everyone here with a 1500 T1 will never get close to maxing out their payload. If they do, maybe 1x per year. Most guys who do real work with their trucks all buy 2500s these days, anyway. Thus, RAM has realized that when people test drive their trucks and they ride like a Suburban, they're hooked. Especially if they have been in Fords or GMs previously.

Second, the argument that the T1s are lighter means they will ride worse is bad logic. The 2018 Silverado 1500 CC Short Bed 4x4 has a curb weight of 5,300lbs. The GVWR is 7,600. Max payload is 2,120. (LINK)

The same Silverado for 2019 has a curb weight of 5,008lbs, a GVWR of 7,300 and a max payload of 2,130. (LINK)

Thus, the rear springs on the 2018 are rated for 7,600 pounds and the springs on the 2019 are rated for 7,300... the 300# difference is the weight difference of the truck, which is why the GVWR for the 2019 is lower.

So the truck being lighter has nothing to do with the truck riding worse than a 2018. The ratios are all the same, and the weight loss is built into a loss of the GVWR. Basically, the springs are capable of handing the same proportionate amount of weight... hence the payload #s being essentially the same.

mk61hacker · August 5, 2019

I'll second "econometrics" post... I also want to clarify some of the b/s folks putting about RAMs... They have their own share of problems just like GM/Ford but c'mon.

1. RAM air suspensions is a proven very reliable except for the the extreme cold climate (northern US/Canada).

2. RAM air suspension IS NOT for a better ride (RAM actually rides slightly better without air suspension). It is for maintaining an ideal suspension geometry under load or when towing (auto-leveling). That is why RAM tows much better and safer than Ford or GM. Plus a bit MPG saving by lowering at 65+MPH speed.

3. 2019+ RAM 1500 have similar max towing and max payload to 1500 GM/Ford (1,212 - 2,302 lbs for RAM vs. 1,500 - 2,543 lbs for GM vs. 1,125 - 2,309 lbs for Ford) - so spring vs. leafs suspensions setup has no adverse effect on capabilities.

GM fans should really be proud of a superb 6.2 and 10 speed combo that is the best 1500 truck drivetrain available today (by a long shot) - and should really ask for the improved ride and interior quality.

protovack · August 5, 2019

17 hours ago, econometrics said:

First, most of those who are bringing (legitimate) criticism of the Silverado ride are not expecting it to ride like a car. Chevy says they spent over 7,000 hours real world testing the new T1 platform. It's fair to be critical of GM when they claim that, yet still sell a truck that has a walking rear end over stutter bumps at speed.

One of the likely reasons buyers are moving to the RAM platform is because FCA realizes that very few truck buyers will ever use the truck's full payload capacities. I live in the truck capital of the world, DFW. Most everyone here with a 1500 T1 will never get close to maxing out their payload. If they do, maybe 1x per year. Most guys who do real work with their trucks all buy 2500s these days, anyway. Thus, RAM has realized that when people test drive their trucks and they ride like a Suburban, they're hooked. Especially if they have been in Fords or GMs previously.

Second, the argument that the T1s are lighter means they will ride worse is bad logic. The 2018 Silverado 1500 CC Short Bed 4x4 has a curb weight of 5,300lbs. The GVWR is 7,600. Max payload is 2,120. (LINK)

The same Silverado for 2019 has a curb weight of 5,008lbs, a GVWR of 7,300 and a max payload of 2,130. (LINK)

Thus, the rear springs on the 2018 are rated for 7,600 pounds and the springs on the 2019 are rated for 7,300... the 300# difference is the weight difference of the truck, which is why the GVWR for the 2019 is lower.

So the truck being lighter has nothing to do with the truck riding worse than a 2018. The ratios are all the same, and the weight loss is built into a loss of the GVWR. Basically, the springs are capable of handing the same proportionate amount of weight... hence the payload #s being essentially the same.

It may be a proportional loss but that doesn't negate the overall lighter weight. Are you telling me if they made the truck weigh 1000lbs and gave it proportionately weaker leaf springs, it should ride exactly the same? I don't think so. The truck is still lighter and an overall lighter truck on similar leaf springs is going to ride worse. Do you really think GM, if they could get the same payload numbers with a suspension that rode better, without a significant sacrifice, at a similar cost, they wouldn't do it? The only question is, what is the sacrifice? I can tell you. It is durability, simplicity of design, and dependability. And those things are important to truck buyers, at least GM truck buyers.

Guys doing real work only buy 2500s? Then why does GM produce a 1500 with payload and towing numbers as you detailed above? Plenty of people do tons of work in their 1500s. Maybe not in DFW.

This is a classic case of mistaken expectations. If you wanted a RAM with air suspension you should've bought one. You bought the truck that was designed to be an actual truck, so either accept the ride for what it is or trade yours for something that suits your lifestyle more. Just be sure to check the RAM forums first...

Edited August 5, 2019 by protovack

Belo · August 5, 2019

On 8/2/2019 at 8:35 AM, BlackRST said:

What do you run your PSI at? Ive been debating dropping mine to 33-34 because after about 2-3 mins of driving theyre up to 37...after starting at 34. Ive heard many people talk about that really helping the ride. (Granted im coming for an import car with a fully done suspension) So anything is more comfy and softer haha.

all tire psi specs are meant to be cold psi. they know your psi will increase while driving and factor that in.

econometrics · August 5, 2019

2 minutes ago, protovack said:

It may be a proportional loss but that doesn't negate the overall lighter weight. Are you telling me if they made the truck weigh 1000lbs and gave it proportionately weaker leaf springs, it should ride exactly the same? I don't think so. The truck is still lighter and an overall lighter truck on similar leaf springs is going to ride worse. Do you really think GM, if they could get the same payload numbers with a suspension that rode better, without a significant sacrifice, at a similar cost, they wouldn't do it? The only question is, what is the sacrifice? I can tell you. It is durability, simplicity of design, and dependability. And those things are important to truck buyers, at least GM truck buyers.

Guys doing real work only buy 2500s? Then why does GM produce a 1500 with payload and towing numbers as you detailed above? Plenty of people do tons of work in their 1500s. Maybe not in DFW.

This is a classic case of mistaken expectations. If you wanted a RAM with air suspension you should've bought one. You bought the truck that was designed to be an actual truck, so either accept the ride for what it is or trade yours for something that suits your lifestyle more. Just be sure to check the RAM forums first...

This is not very complex. It's all about GVWR. Reduce the truck's weight from 5K to 4K and you will reduce the amount of gross weight the truck is rated for. The rear springs are just one of many parts of the chassis that determines GM's GVWR for the truck.

The point is that the common argument for poor ride on the T1 rear ends is "The truck is lighter!" It doesn't hold mathematical weight, sorry. Payload is simply the total GVWR of the truck less the weight of the truck itself. The loss in weight on the T1 is absorbed in the loss of GVWR. If anything, the T1 should ride BETTER, since the GVWR is lower.

And to your question of "What is the sacrifice?" The answer is not durability, it is profit margin. Because a better dampening rear shock absorber would greatly improve the ride control of the leaf springs.