Do I not understand traction control?

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, Mozzer said:

So it's slipping / unlocked most of the time? I am not an expert in auto boxes by any means but wouldn't that wear the torque converter out quicker?

Nope. Converters are a fluid clutch meant to slip but slip creates heat. It get worse as the stall gets higher. At 1500 rpm, about the stock 6L80E stall the converter is slipping only about 2-3%. Newer transmissions implement a clutch added to the converter that earlier transmissions like the TH-400 and C-6 did not have. It's the clutch that wears and only if it slips. Slip is a condition of low line pressure or glazed discs. This isn't like riding a manual clutch burning it up. It is designed to lock or not...minimum wear. Thing is this is not a large clutch and it is single plate...if stock, so large applications of torque can force slip. Thus torque control and traction control. Keep torque below the slip point of an otherwise fully locked up clutch. Under light loads a locked up clutch promotes fuel efficiency and reduces heat. It gets to be an issue under abnormal load. 

 

Good aftermarket converters not only increase stall speed but employ higher friction disc materials. Larger diameter discs and more of them to stay locked up under much higher loads. In an oil bath (ATF) at reasonable temperatures...bullet proof. Circle D, TCI and PATC among the best. 

 

The factory equipment is designed down to the last foot pound, last degree of heat and last pound of pressure to save fuel and limit production cost. Abuse it, and that threshold is LOW, and it will fail. 

 

 

 

[Jacoby]

9 hours ago, Railhead_Ed said:

The other day I was merging onto an interstate. I wanted to place myself between a semi and the car behind him. So I kicked it in the a$$ to get up to speed. This puppy just about went sideways on me!  Granted the road was damp, but not wet. I thought I was gonna roll it! Certainly got my attention. Thing I don't understand is why didn't the traction control kick in? My last truck a 2009 Dodge Laramie 1500 2wd, would have been jumping all over me before I ever got to that point. I am beginning to question my purchase of this thing. Or is my traction control defective? I was in 2 wheel high.

 

Ed

So your TC didn’t fully kick in one time and because of that you’re now questioning your purchase of the truck. Oh lord 

[KARNUT]

I rather not have it. Most of the time TC just shuts it down, that would have been fun in the middle of a merge. I trust my right foot more.


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[1SLOW1500]

As GB stated. The single small clutch slips and wears out. Most tuners band aid this with line pressure and also shift points. As will as demand to shift points. In hopes to have the best locked up stall when the power comes in.
As I said there is much debate over this as others argue of driveability, fuel economy, and the stress on other parts.

I am better when I have a picture as reference. This is my triple "large" stall. First band has 2 friction surface and the 2 band has one.

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[1SLOW1500]

I rather not have it. Most of the time TC just shuts it down, that would have been fun in the middle of a merge. I trust my right foot more.


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I agree with the statement. Unfortunately there is no such thing these days. Computer and the million different tables decides what % of throttle you get. Meaning you go 50%, it gives you 30% then at a speed or temp or rpm or gear it just dumps in the other 20%. If you have high power this is a issue.
That is why I laugh when people claim a horsepower level on a stock untuned truck, because they read it in the manual.
Even on the dyno we have to do a pull in a higher gear, max traction,and wot after the roll in. How often are those exact conditions replicated on the streets to have that same number? I say 1-2% of the time and only that few 10ths of a second in the pull.
Also vss can be off with different tire sizes.

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[KARNUT]

I agree with the statement. Unfortunately there is no such thing these days. Computer and the million different tables decides what % of throttle you get. Meaning you go 50%, it gives you 30% then at a speed or temp or rpm or gear it just dumps in the other 20%. If you have high power this is a issue.

That is why I laugh when people claim a horsepower level on a stock untuned truck, because they read it in the manual.

Even on the dyno we have to do a pull in a higher gear, max traction,and wot after the roll in. How often are those exact conditions replicated on the streets to have that same number? I say 1-2% of the time and only that few 10ths of a second in the pull.

Also vss can be off with different tire sizes.

 

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That’s why I play with an old truck. When I play on the back roads I no TC isn’t going to put me in a ditch. Nothing more fun than a right foot controlled burn.

 

 

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[SierraHD17]

2 hours ago, Jacoby said:

So your TC didn’t fully kick in one time and because of that you’re now questioning your purchase of the truck. Oh lord 

No kidding.... it's this that makes these heaps as little fun to drive stock as possible.  Learn to control your vehicle without relying on aids... what a novel idea.

[Railhead_Ed]

2 hours ago, Jacoby said:

So your TC didn’t fully kick in one time and because of that you’re now questioning your purchase of the truck. Oh lord 

Wow! This was helpful!

[Railhead_Ed]

13 minutes ago, SierraHD17 said:

No kidding.... it's this that makes these heaps as little fun to drive stock as possible.  Learn to control your vehicle without relying on aids... what a novel idea.

Wow! This was helpful too! I've been driving 49 years. I know how to control a vehicle.

[Railhead_Ed]

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

That’s why I play with an old truck. When I play on the back roads I no TC isn’t going to put me in a ditch. Nothing more fun than a right foot controlled burn.

 

 

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Yeah I get you there. But, I wasn't trying to play with it. I was merging onto an interstate. Chevys are much different than Dodges. I guess I'm still in that getting to know you stage. :-)

[Railhead_Ed]

11 hours ago, Snowcamo said:

Mine as well. It'll get sideways real quick on wet roads. Kinda wish i had a way to turn down the throttle % for rainy days.

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It sure surprised me! Came around real quick! A more inexperienced driver might have lost it. Just gotta keep my head in the game!

[Railhead_Ed]

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

I rather not have it. Most of the time TC just shuts it down, that would have been fun in the middle of a merge. I trust my right foot more.


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It seemed to me as though I had no traction control at all. Gonna have to pay attention to my right foot!

[Railhead_Ed]

11 hours ago, 1SLOW1500 said:

Temp is your issue. There is a table for traction control based on ect. Seems silly to me but there is. I set mine to 400* and torque to 1000. Still comes on but incandescent rool the tires a few times first.

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Is this something you need a tuner for? Or is there somewhere I can change the parameters in the user accessible settings of the truck?

[1SLOW1500]

8 minutes ago, Railhead_Ed said:

Is this something you need a tuner for? Or is there somewhere I can change the parameters in the user accessible settings of the truck?

tuner for can not change the factory control on this.

[Jacoby]

1 hour ago, Railhead_Ed said:

Wow! This was helpful!

I wasnt trying to be helpful. 

 

I was pointing out the absurdity of your comment