Tire rotation.

KARNUT · April 22, 2019

I just visited my local Toyota dealer for my 5K service. This was the non oil change service. I usually only to this while still under warranty. This was my first out of pocket visit I had a free service program with purchase. I did the usual check in and they inform me it will be 27$ for this service. The only thing really being done is tire rotation a service I usually get free at discount tire. As I’m waiting I have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, the feeling you get when you feel pretty stupid. So I switched to my phone calculator and sure enough I get my answer. There it is. If I pay to rotate my tires every 5K miles, over the normal life of the tires as they recommend I would more then spend the purchase price of the tires. Even if you wear the front tires faster do to non rotation you’re still ahead. You would only be buying two. Oh what a feeling. At least it only cost me 27$. No more Toyota service for me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Grumpy Bear · April 22, 2019

I've felt that feeling.

Your on the money about cost but, and there is always a but, right? Properly rotated and balanced and keep the air pressure up to snuff, alignment in spec and you can double your tire life. When I read a tire review I always giggle at the guys who claim what a rotten tire brand XYZ is. "Then didn't make it 20K miles, what junk". He didn't rotate and believes an alignment is something that happens at the Chiropractor.

Still sounds like a break even until you realize your not wearing out shocks/struts as often. Wheel bearings seem to last forever. Ball Joints and tie rod ends ditto. Steering rack is happy. Dash is rattle free and your regular again and can put away the fiber muffins.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Grumpy Bear

SnakeEyeSS · April 22, 2019

4 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I just visited my local Toyota dealer for my 5K service. This was the non oil change service. I usually only to this while still under warranty. This was my first out of pocket visit I had a free service program with purchase. I did the usual check in and they inform me it will be 27$ for this service. The only thing really being done is tire rotation a service I usually get free at discount tire. As I’m waiting I have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, the feeling you get when you feel pretty stupid. So I switched to my phone calculator and sure enough I get my answer. There it is. If I pay to rotate my tires every 5K miles, over the normal life of the tires as they recommend I would more then spend the purchase price of the tires. Even if you wear the front tires faster do to non rotation you’re still ahead. You would only be buying two. Oh what a feeling. At least it only cost me 27$. No more Toyota service for me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's not "Toyota service". $27 is probably pretty reasonable, actually, based on dealer labor costs. And if my 70k of Toyota ownership was any indication, they((dealer) don't have much else to scam on besides routine maintenance.

I still do my stuff under warranty, and take videos/pictures of it as proof. For instance my Honda inspection service is coming up, I jack up the car, go under with my phone or camera, and show the condition of everything, which would cost $100 at the dealer, but only takes up a little bit of an SD card. If a dealer scoffs at a video/picture proof of a service(I also show my/a cell showing network date and time), they aren't a dealer you would want to deal with anyway, and go on to the next

Edited April 22, 2019 by SnakeEyeSS

KARNUT · April 22, 2019

It's not "Toyota service". $27 is probably pretty reasonable, actually, based on dealer labor costs. And if my 70k of Toyota ownership was any indication, they((dealer) don't have much else to scam on besides routine maintenance.

I still do my stuff under warranty, and take videos/pictures of it as proof. For instance my Honda inspection service is coming up, I jack up the car, go under with my phone, and show the condition of everything, which would cost $100 at the dealer, but only takes up a little bit of an SD card. If a dealer scoffs at a video proof of a service, they aren't a dealer you would want to deal with anyway, and go on to the next

I usually rotate every 10K. I only had one vehicle make the dreaded chopping sound. It turns out it was the tires. Discount Tires made good on those. If you don’t rotate and wear out your front tires early your covered by the money saved by not rotating. I’m assuming most people can tell if a tire is bad. Every car now has a low air light, so that’s covered. As far as visually checking fluid levels that couldn’t be easier. It’s a Toyota much like Honda the reputation is things usually don’t fall off till well after 150K. I guess my real point is if they’re going to claim no oil changes for 10K miles the other service can wait too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

diyer2 · April 22, 2019

I know someone who bought a new Toyota Tacoma. First oil change is 10 K miles per dealer.

I believe they are all extending services to let you think it's OK.

I disagree.

KARNUT · April 22, 2019

I know someone who bought a new Toyota Tacoma. First oil change is 10 K miles per dealer.
I believe they are all extending services to let you think it's OK.
I disagree.

[emoji4]

When I was going through my free service I ask about doing it at 5K. They said it wasn’t necessary. I figure no harm for the first 25K then I’ll do every 5K. Surprisingly the oil never colored up. It gets driven mostly highway miles on trips. I drive my old truck, the wife drives her Genesis when we’re home. I figure no ones going to bother a plain white Camry on trips.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

garagerog · April 22, 2019

All this Toyota and Honda talk is going to spoil my supper, but anyway I use a tread depth gauge to determine when it's time to rotate tires. I always used to do it myself, but at 70 yrs. of age it's time for someone else to do the heavy lifting. Others may have a different opinion, but I've always start looking to rotate when there's 1/32nd difference between front and back. Often times tire rotation is a freebie when having other service done like an oil and filter change.

SnakeEyeSS · April 22, 2019

It's be proven with a lot of oil test results that a good oil can easily go 10k.

KARNUT · April 22, 2019

It's be proven with a lot of oil test results that a good oil can easily go 10k.

In a basic engine I agree. A turbo, or anything with cylinder deactivation as an example maybe not.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KARNUT · April 23, 2019

I've felt that feeling. [emoji14]

Your on the money about cost but, and there is always a but, right? Properly rotated and balanced and keep the air pressure up to snuff, alignment in spec and you can double your tire life. When I read a tire review I always giggle at the guys who claim what a rotten tire brand XYZ is. "Then didn't make it 20K miles, what junk". He didn't rotate and believes an alignment is something that happens at the Chiropractor.

Still sounds like a break even until you realize your not wearing out shocks/struts as often. Wheel bearings seem to last forever. Ball Joints and tie rod ends ditto. Steering rack is happy. Dash is rattle free and your regular again and can put away the fiber muffins.

This may sound unbelievable especially since I spent my working life off road. Living in the south, not many pot holes may be a good reason . I’ve never needed an alignment. I would regularly get 70-90K miles out of factory tires. The only exception was when I did a job in Austin Texas. Mesquite trees, thorny little &$&&&. KOs took care of them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cpl_Punishment · April 30, 2019

The tires on my car are all wearing pretty eavenly so I'm not sure what value there would be in rotating them. I also change from my summers to winters and vice versa myself and when I do that, I put the two best tires on the front (FWD).

One time when my car was still under warranty, the guys at the Kia dealership dropped my tires to inspect my brakes then informed me that they had rotated the tires for me. This was despite the fact that I'd just put the winters on and asked them not to do the rotation. They also didn't tighten the bolts in a cross pattern so the car had a shake at highway speed. I ended up taking all 4 tires off and reinstalling them correctly where they had been originally.

And yet, based on reviews, that's the best Kia dealership that's within a half hour drive of where I live.

Grumpy Bear · May 1, 2019

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 7:17 PM, KARNUT said:

This may sound unbelievable especially since I spent my working life off road. Living in the south, not many pot holes may be a good reason . I’ve never needed an alignment. I would regularly get 70-90K miles out of factory tires. The only exception was when I did a job in Austin Texas. Mesquite trees, thorny little &$&&&. KOs took care of them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tire change on Sugar Bears Terrain as soon as they arrive. 90,000 on this OEM set of Michelin Latitude. This is a 65,000/6year tire. They are JUST at 5/32" remaining. These tires are 10/32" new. So they are still well above (33% above) the 2 mm (5/64") change wear bars. Tire was made between October 20 and 26 of 2014 so they are not dated out.

I could whine and make up some excuse why they need changing but truth is, it's the wife's vehicle, it's her money buying the tires and she has bought into the 5/32" rule. I would too IF we were going into the winter but hey.....

This works out to a tire that could conceivably go 135,000 taken to the wear bars. More likely about 120K when they date out. Or as little as 105K by next snow fall. A bit over twice the manufacture warranty in the first case and a bit less by date and season.

I had the truck aligned when she bought it then rotated every 5K (oil change) and balance every other service. There is indeed a cost to this and while I haven't worked that number up I wouldn't challenge the idea it would add up to a new set of the same tire. I've always counted the cost at "break even".

So why do it? Well, I've done that too and the return is negative. A 65K tire might make it half way if never rotated or balanced past the initial service. Best shocks on the planet wont hold a imbalanced tire on the ground. It usually isn't wear in this case that leads to the next change but the cabin noise will drive the deaf from their car or vibration.

So do I over service? Likely. The experience alone says perfection is something over 5K. Given OUR habits and maintenance routine. For someone that tows and hauls heavy or thinks every on ramp is a challenge to do a 1 G approach it might not be soon enough. Then there are those pesky thorns.

Wife has always been hard on tires. Thorns up her are nails, rebar and angle iron, curbs and pot holes and she can find every one. One of the current tires has been 'plugged' over half its life!

My biggest reason to service as I do is the joy of driving a perfect set up in any and all conditions.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Grumpy Bear

KARNUT · May 1, 2019

Tire change on Sugar Bears Terrain as soon as they arrive. 90,000 on this OEM set of Michelin Latitude. This is a 65,000/6year tire. They are JUST at 5/32" remaining. These tires are 10/32" new. So they are still well above (33% above) the 2 mm (5/64") change wear bars. Tire was made between October 20 and 26 of 2014 so they are not dated out.

I could whine and make up some excuse why they need changing but truth is, it's the wife's vehicle, it's her money buying the tires and she has bought into the 5/32" rule. I would too IF we were going into the winter but hey.....

This works out to a tire that could conceivably go 135,000 taken to the wear bars. More likely about 120K when they date out. Or as little as 105K by next snow fall. A bit over twice the manufacture warranty in the first case and a bit less by date and season.

I had the truck aligned when she bought it then rotated every 5K (oil change) and balance every other service. There is indeed a cost to this and while I haven't worked that number up I wouldn't challenge the idea it would add up to a new set of the same tire. I've always counted the cost at "break even".

So why do it? Well, I've done that too and the return is negative. A 65K tire might make it half way if never rotated or balanced past the initial service. Best shocks on the planet wont hold a imbalanced tire on the ground. It usually isn't wear in this case that leads to the next change but the cabin noise will drive the deaf from their car or vibration.

So do I over service? Likely. The experience alone says perfection is something over 5K. Given OUR habits and maintenance routine. For someone that tows and hauls heavy or thinks every on ramp is a challenge to do a 1 G approach it might not be soon enough. Then there are those pesky thorns. [emoji14]

Wife has always been hard on tires. Thorns up her are nails, rebar and angle iron, curbs and pot holes and she can find every one. One of the current tires has been 'plugged' over half its life!

My biggest reason to service as I do is the joy of driving a perfect set up in any and all conditions.

My wife usually has cars that have Z rated tires that I rotate every 10K. I rub my hands across to check tread wear or cupping. Her latest Genesis is approaching 100K miles and only driven in good weather. Still looks new. Our shared daily, bad weather, trip car, Camry has 16, Michelin fuel mileage tires. I call it the beater, it probably will out last the others and end up with a grandkid. The tires on that at 30K look new. Will easily go 70K miles. Replacement will go around 400$ at discount tire. So paying 27$ every 5K miles is not cost effective. Discount tire give free rotation once I buy replacements.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rkj__ · May 1, 2019

Since I always run winter tires in the winter, I never rotate tires just for the sake of rotating tires. When I do a seasonal changeover, I give the tires a visual inspection, and choose their mounting position accordingly.

My truck is the first new vehicle I've ever bought though. I'm not sure how I will or will not follow their recommended service visits. They love to pressure you into doing things like inspections, alignments, and other things that may not actually need any attention.

Edited May 1, 2019 by rkj__

Grumpy Bear · May 1, 2019

22 minutes ago, rkj__ said:

Since I always run winter tires in the winter, I never rotate tires just for the sake of rotating tires. When I do a seasonal changeover, I give the tires a visual inspection, and choose their mounting position accordingly.

My truck is the first new vehicle I've ever bought though. I'm not sure how I will or will not follow their recommended service visits. They love to pressure you into doing things like inspections, alignments, and other things that may not actually need any attention.

It's how they make money right? You have to be your own advocate.