Fuel additive/cleaner for DI?

KARNUT · April 15, 2019

I’ve seen proof that additives work. You don’t have to take my word for it. Most manuals will recommend fuel system cleaning unless you use top tier gas. So their stating that top tier gas has additives that keep your fuel system clean. Otherwise they would just say fuel system cleaning recommend every X amount of miles. I don’t think there’s any catch can company that states total elimination of carbon buildup. I would and have used a product like sea foam through my intake.

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Doublebase · April 15, 2019

3 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

I’ve seen proof that additives work. You don’t have to take my word for it. Most manuals will recommend fuel system cleaning unless you use top tier gas. So their stating that top tier gas has additives that keep your fuel system clean. Otherwise they would just say fuel system cleaning recommend every X amount of miles. I don’t think there’s any catch can company that states total elimination of carbon buildup. I would and have used a product like sea foam through my intake.

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I think part of your statement is absolutely correct, you mention top tier gas and the detergents that keep your fuel systems clean, agree 100%. That section of the fuel system - and the parts that are sprayed with fuel - will reap the benefits of that CONSTANT flow/treatment of gasoline. The constant exposure. So YES I believe, in fact I know that the additives will clean and do their job. That's the key, the additives in that fuel is a constant consistent application to the components they're designed to come into contact with. And they do their job.

The upper end spary treatment that we buy in a can are NOT constant, if they were they would certainly do a good job. Yes. However instead due to direct injection, the spots that are not consistently being sprayed/treated with those additives, will not benefit from a five minute light application every 5,000-10,000 miles. It would have to be constant to prevent the buildup we all are trying to remove/prevent.

Now the real question is...how is the design of the upper end of this motor...the PCV system, the blowby, everything? I have heard that there haven't been many complaints of backside valve carbon buildup with these engines. And I have heard the opposite as well. Oil has changed a bit too, it seems like manufacturers have obviously needed oil to do more in terms of low speed detonation prevention and oil cooking and turning into carbon on valves, so perhaps its improved? I don't know. And some people claim that direct injection has come a long way. Probably has. BMW and Audi certainly had their fair share of issues with carbon buildup misfires and check engine lights, but honestly I haven't heard much about those things from other manufacturers of late. Oil consumption and fuel dilution are the buzz words now...shorter drain intervals, leaking high pressure fuel pumps. Who knows, maybe the backside of the valves aren't really a big issue anymore...not sure.

WS6FirebirdTA00 · April 15, 2019

I agree that tearing into it is the best, unfortunately it isn't practical for what I am doing. The treatments help a little, but not a ton. What I am really looking to do is stop (or drastically reduce) the source of the oil and do some cleanup that I can.

Will it be perfect? No. I am at least hoping to clean the oily residue out. Any time I tore into my Trans Am my main issue was the residue. I would run some Lucas through periodically and Seafoam, my valves typically looked pretty good as did the intake ports. I put a good catch can on there too late, so if I ran too long before cleaning it would build up and need to be scrubbed down pretty good.

The main thing there was port injection which those cleaners could actually do something to help when run in the tank. With DI (which is why I asked) is really going to limit what it is cleaning.

Grumpy Bear · April 15, 2019

I get reminded from time to time that any experience I have in the refining field is useless because I'm old and as outdated as any information I may have known at one time. That and people just don't like engineering types. This means to those individuals so inclined nothing one has to say that stands outside their personal and individual current experience or education will ever convince anyone of anything. That is considered a rational method of filtering information. If I disagree will it matter? Likely not.

How about if I just agree? Doublebase I agree with. Will that add weight to his statements? How about some common sense?

DI cleaners do??????? They clean injectors just like any other injection method cleaner. They clean the softer gums and varnish from the working side of the injector. (back and interior) That is IF there are any there. Even if a fuel is not top tier, a buzzword, if it is fresh and the turn over is quick enough there is nothing to clean. Inside the combustion chamber, that space MUST reach a carbon neutral balance and it will if it's left to it's business. Anyone who has actually opened up a carbureted motor or a port injection motor with over a 100K on the clock knows what a poor argument it is that gas detergents will keep the valves spotless. Especially if those inspected motors are of the post EGR era. We may have lost the pumps but VVT now does the same job passively.

Seriously, when is the last time anyone did a routine 5K mile heads off decoking? The sky is not falling and Doublebase is on the money. Listen to him.

mitchely03 · April 15, 2019

Can someone verify if I am truly missing out on not having a catch can? I have had my AFM turned off since 19k miles so I didn’t think I needed a catch can. Am I crazy?

diyer2 · April 15, 2019

I'll throw this into the thread.

I have a Mercury outboard that has carburetors.

Mercury makes a product called Power Tune made for removal of carbon.

I have used it.

Works well.

The problem as mentioned is cleaning in DI engines due to the design.

Power Tune is used by removing the plugs and spraying it into the cylinder.

Letting it soak over night.

Then turn motor over with plugs removed to expel it.

With a visual inspection through the spark plug hole before and after it does remove carbon from the piston tops.

Is it better than other products?

Made for carbed and fuel injected motors.

WS6FirebirdTA00 · April 15, 2019

Mitchely03 - I will let you know after I install mine. I have enough concern with mine to put one on. I will see how much oil I end up picking up. If it catches any oil, as I expect it will, I would seriously consider it. The buildup and increased risk of knock is my major concern. I plan to keep this truck for quite some time and wish I had installed one sooner on the Trans Am.

Edited April 15, 2019 by ws6firebirdta00

TXGREEK · April 15, 2019

Last year, I mentioned that my 2016 Yukon 5.3 started having a rough idle at 12K miles, dealership said this only happens due to carbon build up from bad gas...hmmm, I’ve been using Shell Super in every tank full so I highly doubt that and later finding out he was full of crap, trying to charge me a one time fee of approx $300 to run a (BS) fuel cleaner. I immediately started using Lucas in every tank but with mid grade octane fuel and after the first few tank fulls of back to back Lucas the rough idle gradually disappeared! It’s at 42K miles now and ZERO issues but I’m running it in every tank full only skipping a tank if I’ve run out but next tank gets it. I’ve also started running Amsoil 100% synthetic (in all my vehicles) and not that BS “Full Synthetic” and have also noticed a smoother running engine too. I’ve been asked the question “scope it and see if it’s dirty” but why? If I’m not having issues at all then what’s the point. I’m a firm believer of you get what you put into it.

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Snowcamo · April 15, 2019

I'll throw this into the thread.
I have a Mercury outboard that has carburetors.
Mercury makes a product called Power Tune made for removal of carbon.
I have used it.
Works well.
The problem as mentioned is cleaning in DI engines due to the design.

Power Tune is used by removing the plugs and spraying it into the cylinder.
Letting it soak over night.
Then turn motor over with plugs removed to expel it.

With a visual inspection through the spark plug hole before and after it does remove carbon from the piston tops.
Is it better than other products?
Made for carbed and fuel injected motors.

[emoji4]

Yeah budy! I use seafoam deepcreep in my small merc. I got pics on iboats showing the diff. Stuff does work you just have to be diligent and not wait 200k...

WS6FirebirdTA00 · April 15, 2019

7 minutes ago, TXGREEK said:

Last year, I mentioned that my 2016 Yukon 5.3 started having a rough idle at 12K miles, dealership said this only happens due to carbon build up from bad gas...hmmm, I’ve been using Shell Super in every tank full so I highly doubt that and later finding out he was full of crap, trying to charge me a one time fee of approx $300 to run a (BS) fuel cleaner. I immediately started using Lucas in every tank but with mid grade octane fuel and after the first few tank fulls of back to back Lucas the rough idle gradually disappeared! It’s at 42K miles now and ZERO issues but I’m running it in every tank full only skipping a tank if I’ve run out but next tank gets it. I’ve also started running Amsoil 100% synthetic (in all my vehicles) and not that BS “Full Synthetic” and have also noticed a smoother running engine too. I’ve been asked the question “scope it and see if it’s dirty” but why? If I’m not having issues at all then what’s the point. I’m a firm believer of you get what you put into it.

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I ran that in the WS6 and noticed the next time I pulled the manifold how good the ports looked. I ran the same fuel from the same station and that was the only change was running that 1-2x per year through a full tank.

TXGREEK · April 15, 2019

I ran that in the WS6 and noticed the next time I pulled the manifold how good the ports looked. I ran the same fuel from the same station and that was the only change was running that 1-2x per year through a full tank.

That’s awesome to hear, guess theory of running it in every tank full should work even better, spoiling my engine lol.

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Jacoby · April 15, 2019

DI cleaners work and they work even better the sooner in the engines life you can begin using them.

Grumpy Bear · April 15, 2019

4 hours ago, mitchely03 said:

Can someone verify if I am truly missing out on not having a catch can? I have had my AFM turned off since 19k miles so I didn’t think I needed a catch can. Am I crazy?

You know not what you ask young one.

Verification?

Doublebase · April 15, 2019

4 hours ago, mitchely03 said:

Can someone verify if I am truly missing out on not having a catch can? I have had my AFM turned off since 19k miles so I didn’t think I needed a catch can. Am I crazy?

I think what I’ll do is this, I’ll try to do a video in a few weeks on two Silverados with similar mileage. Me I had had a catch can since 8,000 miles (or around there) and I’ve run a few cleaners through it since new. I have access to two other Silverados with similar mileage but never a catch can or single treatment...similar commutes (very similar as one of them lives right down the street and the other a little closer to our work). I’ll see if they’ll let me remove the air snorkel and send a scope through their throttle body and into the intake - I don’t think they’ll have a problem with it - but I’ve never sent a camera down one of these engines and I’m not sure how access I’ll have it how much I’ll see, but I’ll give it a shot.

I am curious myself because I’d like to know I guess. Like I said I DO have the catch can...easy to install, pretty cheap, drain it every few weeks and it does catch quite a bit of gunk (mixture of oil water). No harm no foul I guess. Honestly my engine, and the ones I’ll look at don’t have a ton of miles so I’m not sure how important a look at it will be (28,000 miles mine, 35,000 the other). Personally I installed the can because I was more concerned with long term, but honestly when my lifters go - if they go - I’ll be able to clean those valves by hand anyway (because the heads have to come off to do the repair). But I always like preventive maintenance.

TXGREEK · April 15, 2019

I think what I’ll do is this, I’ll try to do a video in a few weeks on two Silverados with similar mileage. Me I had had a catch can since 8,000 miles (or around there) and I’ve run a few cleaners through it since new. I have access to two other Silverados with similar mileage but never a catch can or single treatment...similar commutes (very similar as one of them lives right down the street and the other a little closer to our work). I’ll see if they’ll let me remove the air snorkel and send a scope through their throttle body and into the intake - I don’t think they’ll have a problem with it - but I’ve never sent a camera down one of these engines and I’m not sure how access I’ll have it how much I’ll see, but I’ll give it a shot.

I am curious myself because I’d like to know I guess. Like I said I DO have the catch can...easy to install, pretty cheap, drain it every few weeks and it does catch quite a bit of gunk (mixture of oil water). No harm no foul I guess. Honestly my engine, and the ones I’ll look at don’t have a ton of miles so I’m not sure how important a look at it will be (28,000 miles mine, 35,000 the other). Personally I installed the can because I was more concerned with long term, but honestly when my lifters go - if they go - I’ll be able to clean those valves by hand anyway (because the heads have to come off to do the repair). But I always like preventive maintenance.

Nickle Boron coated Valves!

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