2.7 Turbo 4 Fan Club

[4banger]

Main point being if you’re an empty truck mileage guy you can skin the cat a couple ways. 2.7 or 3.0 or 5.3. When work involved the 2.7 can play with the big boys, and suck fuel like them also. The 2.7 and 5.3 can likely sip similar through a lot of tasks. I only saw about 12% difference (advantage 2.7) when I compared averages on fuelly. And that coincides with rule of thumb for equiv power levels na vs turbo the turbo ~13% better economy (or more efficient). But the 2.7 can go to another level much lower rpm than the 5.3 on the work front.

[customboss]

18 minutes ago, 4banger said:

People really want to think of the 2.7 as a little 4 banger and fuel economy wizard. It’s not. It’s a giant workhorse 4 banger.

INDEED!!!!   I live at 9000" msl and love it.   Secret trick is keep RPM's low and use E15 in your area if you can get it. It likes 87 pump avg octane. So here I have to mix with crappy CITY MARKET ( Kroger) 91 octane but it works well with 87 ish octane with 5% more ETOH.  Watch the timing advance and still have super tight fuel trims with great MPG when unloaded and driving speed limits. 

 

[customboss]

22 minutes ago, 4banger said:

At sea level the 5.3 can do 11% less work 13% faster than the 2.7 H.O. At 4000’ elevation(where I live) the 5.3 can do 21% less work 1.5% faster. The long stroke 2.7 is a truck engine, the short stroke 5.3 is sports car engine.

 

To add insult to injury the long stroke 2.7 is 160 lbs lighter and it’s peak work is 1100 rpm less than the 5.3. The 2.7 also has no lifters (big warranty item on 5.3/6.2).

 

The Duramax does 6.5% more work 11% slower than the 2.7 and it’s does it 1500 rpm less than the 2.7. Weighs similar to 5.3 and has the emissions headaches. 

 

The Duramax does 17% more work 22% slower than the 5.3 at sea level. It’s peak work comes 2600 rpm less than 5.3 also. At 4000’ elevation it does 26% more work 12% slower. 

 

You can see the 2.7 blends performance of 5.3/Duramax while being way lighter and no emissions/warranty/power loss headaches. 

 

The 6.2 does 6.5% more work 26% faster than 2.7 at sea level. At 4000’ elevation the 6.2 does 5% less work 16.7% faster and weighs a lot more, with lifters. Peak work for 2.7 comes 1100 less rpm than 6.2. 6.2 is also a short stroke motor.

 

People really want to think of the 2.7 as a little 4 banger and fuel economy wizard. It’s not. It’s a giant workhorse 4 banger.

 

Yes empty on summer gas I can achieve rated hwy mileage behaved with a 4” lift, chin spoiler removed and 985 lbs of fuel/tools/gear/mods but it’s not hard to suck fuel like the 6.2 if you ask for those power levels. It’s no slouch anywhere, it can scoot, it can work, it can go economy also, just more flexibility than the v8’s imo. It sort of blends all three other options into one motor really, especially when elevation is involved and 60% of continent doesn’t live around the ocean from recollection.

 

Right now in winter kids school grocery commutes on winter gas I’m getting pretty sad v8 mileage lol. Like closing in on my towing mileage. 

PS I just installed the GM High Clearance steps you have because snow and rocks and ice.....they work really well but the tiny woman with bad knees liked the original nerf bar tubes better......LOL  Wish I had ordered the High Clearance from factory but I did get $280 off the retail price and will try to sell the 1 year old black 4" tubes. 

[4banger]

38 minutes ago, Mike Borowski said:

Well said. Yeah the 2.7 doesn’t like Midwest winter blend gas but otherwise it’s a nice engine. It’s not stated enough how much better it handles than the other 3 engines as well. 

Correct, that light front end is nice!

[4banger]

23 minutes ago, customboss said:

INDEED!!!!   I live at 9000" msl and love it.   Secret trick is keep RPM's low and use E15 in your area if you can get it. It likes 87 pump avg octane. So here I have to mix with crappy CITY MARKET ( Kroger) 91 octane but it works well with 87 ish octane with 5% more ETOH.  Watch the timing advance and still have super tight fuel trims with great MPG when unloaded and driving speed limits. 

 

I've been copying you, I'm at 13,000 miles (21,000 kms) and doing Amsoil OE every 4700 miles (7500 kms), just did 3rd oil change. I'd like to do the tranny and diffs at some point here also. I've only been running 87 octane for my 4000' elevation, sounded right after reading your experiences.

[customboss]

4 minutes ago, 4banger said:

I've been copying you, I'm at 13,000 miles (21,000 kms) and doing Amsoil OE every 4700 miles (7500 kms), just did 3rd oil change. I'd like to do the tranny and diffs at some point here also. I've only been running 87 octane for my 4000' elevation, sounded right after reading your experiences.

Noted!  You seeing any issues with oil consumption?  I am testing a theory that the Amsoil Signature Series ASL 5w30 while giving me the best wear control ever, may have too much sulfated ash level for longer drains in this particular engine. Running the Havoline Pro-RS 5w30 right now to test that theory. I added about 3.4 qt at end of run on ASL of RLI 5w20 HD low ash because its nearly a SAE30 and its 1% or less SA.  Amsoil ASL = 1.2% ash we think.  

[customboss]

PS the OE is 1% or less SA so using it consistently should meet Dexos SA levels easily.  diyer2 is probably spot on with OE being a goto for value especially if changing at or near 5000 miles of use. 

[4banger]

Maybe here's another way to explain the 2.7 turbo to people.

 

Take one side of the 5.3, make the cylinders a little bigger then get rid of the other side of the block and slap a fat dual volute turbo there instead. This is what happens when you do that. 1. You get more torque and you get it at lower rpm. and 2. You eliminate elevation. Both are beneficial for something that does 'work'.  

 

I laugh at the racing comments on these work machines. 'Oh but the 5.3 is faster' too funny. If you care which one is faster then you miss the point. I'm pretty sure at my elevation a custom 5.3 would get smoked by same trim 2.7 H.O. and the closer race would be against the 6.2...at sea level they will be pretty well even or slight edge to the 5.3 at penalty of not being able to do as much work. If I could get the duramax numbers without egr/dpf/def fluid stuff I would...pretty thankful I can get a gas version that gets me half way there. I'll happily pay more for fuel to not have the diesel headaches.

 

And yeah on the 4.3 comments/mileage, you don't really need much power to get 5000 lbs down the road empty. So you can find similar economies across some engines that can ramp to suit an empty truck. But the old 4.3 is going to wheeze it's arse off when real truck duty is asked of it.  

Edited December 9, 2022 by 4banger

[4banger]

5 minutes ago, customboss said:

Noted!  You seeing any issues with oil consumption?  I am testing a theory that the Amsoil Signature Series ASL 5w30 while giving me the best wear control ever, may have too much sulfated ash level for longer drains in this particular engine. Running the Havoline Pro-RS 5w30 right now to test that theory. I added about 3.4 qt at end of run on ASL of RLI 5w20 HD low ash because its nearly a SAE30 and its 1% or less SA.  Amsoil ASL = 1.2% ash we think.  

the first oil change I didn't notice anything before/after, then forget to check level before I took in for second oil change, but did this time and was down around fill line on the grid and 3/4's up the grid line after oil change so we will know about consumption on mine in the next month or two as I will be paying attention to it more closely going forward, definitely get the black soot lip on the tailpipe, not sure if that's an indicator but pretty sure that's a common thing to anything I've owned...this is my first turbo vehicle 

[customboss]

11 minutes ago, 4banger said:

the first oil change I didn't notice anything before/after, then forget to check level before I took in for second oil change, but did this time and was down around fill line on the grid and 3/4's up the grid line after oil change so we will know about consumption on mine in the next month or two as I will be paying attention to it more closely going forward, definitely get the black soot lip on the tailpipe, not sure if that's an indicator but pretty sure that's a common thing to anything I've owned...this is my first turbo vehicle 

Thanks, thats spot on with what I have seen. I did not consume any oil until I went with OE for nearly 7000 miles. 

 

As stated on another thread there MAY be a correlation to sulfated ash level of the lubricant and higher ashy deposits in rings and especially oil control rings.  The Havoline is 0.9% or less. OE is supposed to be same. 

 

Your observation is correct. This engine leaves nearly 0 sooty deposits in tailpipe, fuel will play some but most soot you'll see is oil. 

 

The latest Synthetic Advantage ISO certified oil analysis  had me using about 3/4 qt and normally my tail pipe with E15 looks brand new bare metal. One of the cleanest burning DI engines I have seen.  I have owned many turbo engines and this is a great design.  Show me ANY GM or other design engine that wears this low and fuels dilutes this little. Air filter key to clean low fuel dilution.  

 

 

 

[Texcl2]

I normally don’t have oil consumption but the last 4 k miles I had some but it was run super hard and at high speeds for extended periods. Haven’t used any this oil change at 2k miles. I use Mobil 1 ep but the previous oil change was done by the dealer with whatever they use. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Texcl2

[silveradosid]

i do oil changes when the olm is at 40% regardless of mileage. the oil wasnt even on the dipstick at 40% with dealership oil so i tried castrol next and at 40% at least it was still on the dipstick. so this time i am trying mobile 1

[customboss]

48 minutes ago, silveradosid said:

i do oil changes when the olm is at 40% regardless of mileage. the oil wasnt even on the dipstick at 40% with dealership oil so i tried castrol next and at 40% at least it was still on the dipstick. so this time i am trying mobile 1

Are you using Dexos1 Gen2 or 3 lubes? 

[Texcl2]

Yeah, I think most dealerships don’t use GM oil, they use the cheapest oil of spec they can find. I’ll be switching to 0w-30 Mobil 1 soon as the morning temps here have already gotten down to -27f.

[customboss]

3 minutes ago, Texcl2 said:

Yeah, I think most dealerships don’t use GM oil, they use the cheapest oil of spec they can find. I’ll be switching to 0w-30 Mobil 1 soon as the morning temps here have already gotten down to -27f.

I know our dealership here in Alamosa offers bulk GM ACDELCO Dexos1 Gen2 or Mobil 1 Dexos1 Gen2 and will provide bottled Dexos1 Gen3 if you ask for it.  

 

On my testing listed above I did not use oil as indicated by dipstick drop checked cold level and off for at least 4 hours  for the first 3 tests but I did not go past 3000 miles on Mobil 1, QS syn, or OEM oils. 

Why have changed back to a Chevron Havoline product thats licensed and lower Sulfated Ash level via tests that are published to test my theory.  

 

I ran a Mobil 1 5w30 interval that I did not test between OE and Signature Series Amsoils and it used 0 oil via dipstick check @ 3000 miles or so. My theory being its low SA content.  Remember Mobil1 is using additives to get their OK base oils to last long drains. In the short interval it will work really well and resist usage. 

Amsoil is building ball busting quality but may have missed the mark on the Signature Series for meeting lower SA because an infineum engineer who pushes higher SA and TBN thinks the base oils quality will clean up any deposit remaining since WEAR and LIFE are the goals. 

 

Amsoil knocked my wear down to nil on that last test and RLI raised sulfation and oxidation but did nothing but clean when I topped it up.