2.7 Turbo 4 Fan Club

[customboss]

On 4/7/2019 at 5:44 PM, Wiggums said:

Out of curiosity, how is the engine braking?

The 2.7 in Ford F-150's were terrible at that and my area is a very hilly terrain. I hate to brake so I downshift a lot. That was the reason why I opted for the 5.0 V-8 when I bought my new 2016 F-150.

Thats a good question/ point.

 

I have to down shift into manual mode and the 2.7 is programmed to raise RPM but because it has so much TQ at lower RPM the programming tends to accelerate me on real steep declines unless I downshift early. Kind of a balancing act. 

 

In other words even my Trail Boss is very efficient and has really low rolling resistance. TOW mode doesn't seem to slow me enough when I have tried that.  

 

I operate up to 11,000' and as low as 3000' MSL so we are really mountainous here. On and off road. 4WD low of course changes to tractor level performance and throttle is almost too touchy because of the instant TQ. 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

On 5/1/2022 at 12:59 PM, customboss said:

Thats a good question/ point.

 

I have to down shift into manual mode and the 2.7 is programmed to raise RPM but because it has so much TQ at lower RPM the programming tends to accelerate me on real steep declines unless I downshift early. Kind of a balancing act. 

 

In other words even my Trail Boss is very efficient and has really low rolling resistance. TOW mode doesn't seem to slow me enough when I have tried that.  

 

I operate up to 11,000' and as low as 3000' MSL so we are really mountainous here. On and off road. 4WD low of course changes to tractor level performance and throttle is almost too touchy because of the instant TQ. 

 

 

 

Just an idea here. A turbo motor has a different cylinder pressure map naked vs on boost. In NA motors engine braking is at its maximum at peak torque rpm at maximum BMEP which is hard to know where that spot is in a boosted motor just looking at dyno graphs. Looks like a pool table on the dyno but not without boost in high vacuum.  But put her in say 3rd on a 5% decline and see where the rpm peaks. Poor mans engine braking brake dyno. LOL 

 

If the unit is heavy enough and grade steep enough...it will over run it. Brakes is what ya got left. 

 

 

[customboss]

15 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Just an idea here. A turbo motor has a different cylinder pressure map naked vs on boost. In NA motors engine braking is at its maximum at peak torque rpm at maximum BMEP which is hard to know where that spot is in a boosted motor just looking at dyno graphs. Looks like a pool table on the dyno but not without boost in high vacuum.  But put her in say 3rd on a 5% decline and see where the rpm peaks. Poor mans engine braking brake dyno. LOL 

 

If the unit is heavy enough and grade steep enough...it will over run it. Brakes is what ya got left. 

 

 

I hear you. 

 

Throttle closed, coasting down hill, 0 boost, I downshift on all hills off road, I downshift on really steep highway passes downhill. Its an 8 speed so at my normal 60 mph and coming off a pass peak at 9400'+ to about 7000' I must stay in 6th to maintain 65 in the coast, RPM is about 3200.  There is very little rolling resistance in this Trail Boss since I aired the Duratracs up to 50 psi cold ( 50F or so).  From home across that pass to Walsenburg CO is where we saw 36 mpg @ 60 which rose to 37 mpg by the time I stopped at the light in Walsenburg where city speed limit is 30 mph.  

 

No wind this truck with a 2" lift I think will achieve 25-26 mpg or higher @ 60 mph.  Thats pretty fine to this cowboy!  

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by customboss

[CamGTP]

Would likely be even higher too if you removed those heavy offroad duratracs.

[diyer2]

Custom,

When we were RVing we would visit Monte Vista every year to see the Whooping Cranes. 

[customboss]

2 minutes ago, CamGTP said:

Would likely be even higher too if you removed those heavy offroad duratracs.

Cam thats a good point, they are the cheaper lower quality and lighter of the E rated Mountain snowflake version it should have.  They are C rated and harder compound ( NOT snowflake mountain rated that supposed to give another 10% traction on ice and snow)  so that this year when I buried it on center real good in hard frozen snow, with ice below,... had me needing a pull even after digging and adding traction to the 4 burned in holes where they should have made contact.  

Keeping in mind I am deaf if I take out the hearing aids, so its a quiet ride with very little road noise.  

 

You are an expert on cold weather ops up there in MN so any suggestions for a good year round tire that precludes me having to snow tire it in winter up in the mountains? 

 

Colorado mountains are brutal on variable weather and changes. DEEP Snow, layers of ice, mud, dust etc. 

 

 

[customboss]

7 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

Custom,

When we were RVing we would visit Monte Vista every year to see the Whooping Cranes. 

Agreed!  they are really amazing and in large volumes.  They love the farmers fields too. Douglas county officials want to pipe the water from San Luis Valley up there and that would kill the wildlife refuge not to mention farming in this ginormus valley. 

[customboss]

PS the better MPG readings I am getting now have Amsoil OE 5w30 in there with about 1500 miles on it. Before I ran factory, QS synthetic, and Mobil 1, check out the oil analysis results too.  Its warmer so MPG gonna go up but also keep in mind I run 85 octane CENEX almost exclusively. 

[CamGTP]

I'd probably say there are 3 good options for tires.

 

Michelin Defender LTX M/S

Toyo Open Country AT3's

Falken Wildpeaks AT's

 

All 3 of those work really good for what they are in the snow. Obviously a higher end pure snow tire would out perform all 3 of those but that is a extra $800-1000 just for those tires.

 

I'd have to look at weights but I'm pretty sure the Duratracs would be the heaviest tire of the ones listed. The Toyos and Falkens are around 40-42lbs per tire I think and similar with the Michlein. The Goodyears the last time I looked can be around 50lbs each depending on load rating. Reducing rolling weight and tread pattern can always help with mileage.

[CamGTP]

8 minutes ago, customboss said:

PS the better MPG readings I am getting now have Amsoil OE 5w30 in there with about 1500 miles on it. Before I ran factory, QS synthetic, and Mobil 1, check out the oil analysis results too.  Its warmer so MPG gonna go up but also keep in mind I run 85 octane CENEX almost exclusively. 

You are allowed to do what you want but I'd be leery of 85 octane in a turbocharged engine. This video does a good explanation of why it's not ideal to use.

 

 

[customboss]

4 minutes ago, CamGTP said:

I'd probably say there are 3 good options for tires.

 

Michelin Defender LTX M/S

Toyo Open Country AT3's

Falken Wildpeaks AT's

 

All 3 of those work really good for what they are in the snow. Obviously a higher end pure snow tire would out perform all 3 of those but that is a extra $800-1000 just for those tires.

 

I'd have to look at weights but I'm pretty sure the Duratracs would be the heaviest tire of the ones listed. The Toyos and Falkens are around 40-42lbs per tire I think and similar with the Michlein. The Goodyears the last time I looked can be around 50lbs each depending on load rating. Reducing rolling weight and tread pattern can always help with mileage.

Thanks they are 50 lbs. I will look closely at your recommendations. Living remotely and being off road or on unplowed un treated ( no salt here) rural highways with high passes to navigate I must find something that works.  

 

[customboss]

13 minutes ago, CamGTP said:

You are allowed to do what you want but I'd be leery of 85 octane in a turbocharged engine. This video does a good explanation of why it's not ideal to use.

 

 

Cam thanks!   Thats a great video and really appreciate his videos.   

 

I analyze a lot of things as a retired R&D engineer except I am afraid to put my older scan tool ( 2009 ) on the 2022 to see what the readings are dynamically. 

 

The video is correct US DOE won't override the API and high altitude states regulators, refiners.   All regular fuels now should be 87 normally and I have tested 85,86, 87, 91 and E15 in the truck. 

 

I keep it in really good tune as my oil analysis shows and it's new, I rarely if ever go WOT, I don't tow, we don't drive fast, I make sure I get max air flow by using fresh air filters. 

 

CENEX fuels contain 3X the polymeric additives in all grades and it refined nearby in Kansas so its fresh, and I believe from what I am seeing that is the difference in what is an over-fueling engine.  I have not heard any clatter or knock ( with VA hearing aids in) , timing is not retarding too much based on oil analysis. I ought to scan it but don't want to set any codes if its not up to date. 

 

Spoke to the GM service manager here and he said they will not void my warranty for 85 octane but if I tow or romp on it in warmer weather use 87 or higher. If I were to begin towing heavy loads use 91.  They filled it with 85 Conoco when I bought it. 

 

I am leery of 85 this advanced engine for sure but I generally stay at 7000-10,000' for operations. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[customboss]

Plugged in the ancient 2007 ScanTool to take a look, worked well no issues except I cannot see everything going on in this ECM.  

 

Started cold 53 ambient , through a warm cycle and idled to 210 F coolant temp.  The three valve electric coolant system is quick to warm this baby. 

 

STFT and LTFT were tight with +4.6% LTFT after fully warmed.  On cold start LTFT was 6.2%. 

 

When I brought it up to 1500 and 1750 RPM where it lives on hwy  - STFT was pulling +LTFT down showing good control  and sensing. 

 

Got to CL fast. 

 

timing at idle  warm 2-3 degrees up to 2000 RPM saw 36-37 degrees of advance. 

 

ECM was getting good 14 V  and and dropping as battery charged. 

 

 

Didn't wear the hearing aids so realized I cannot hear this thing idle with doors closed. 

 

Will do some dynamic testing to watch timing, MAF, fuel trims etc on 85 octane. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[customboss]

Onboard dynamic scanning yesterday, 50F -80 F ambient temps, 60 mph. 

 

 

STFT working to bring LTFT near 0 once warmed. 

LTFT settled at +2.4%  from cold 6.2% 

 

Timing on 85 octane  operating MSL was 7800-9400'  47 o advance max, WOT and some other harder acceleration saw -2 o or -3 o  max, does drop to 0 o closed throttle to slow and engine brake. 

 

I have no way to read boost but supposedly this L3B can produce 22 PSI. 

 

For you tech gurus is any of that gonna detonate this L3B on me?  

 

 

 

 

[customboss]

PS saw 26.2 mpg @60 for 42 miles to Alamosa VA,   return 24.4 mpg @60 for 42 miles.