2019 T1 8 speed Shifting

[bearded_warrior]

TLDR; Our trucks are video games.  And the engineer repeated a 3-1 bump downshift.

The Problem:
Engineer said the truck has learning levels and currently it is barely in level 2. There are essentially four levels that I know of. In order for it to get to level 3 where the issues should start to level off they need to do 10,000 shifts a different CV points (clutch/torque converter points or something i'm not exactly sure.) These shift points need to pass some set of internal tests and if they are not passing tests they do not count. In order to level up again to get your transmission to level 4 you need to do 100 thousand more shifts after reaching level 3.

The end result of being in a low level means that my transmission pressure is much higher than it should be at these CV points (they gave me specific numbers but I can't remember them off the top of my head, 20-40 kpa higher). I believe I'm having issues with CV1/4/5. As a result when the pressure is high it's causing it to bump, slam, lose power, and do skip shifts. The engineer repeated a 3-1 bump/lurch coming to a stop during the test drive today.

The Proposed Solution:
The dealership will be driving my truck Monday until they can get it to level three in order to do this they have to put it into manual mode and then shift manually up and down between 4th and 5th and 3rd and 2nd. Once they complete this they have to pull over on the side of the road check a laptop to see what level they're at and how far away they are and keep repeating until they hit level three.

Thoughts:
I'm not entirely thrilled with the solution being.. force a bunch of shifts through your vehicle from gears 5-4-3* and back and 3-2 and back every 3 seconds in order for internal transmission tests to pass in a short amount of time. But i'm incredibly interested if that's the fix.

Also, @HondaHawkGT you were spot on with the learning solution you recommended. This falls right in line with the learning hack you suggested. I didn't know that there's many points where the trans learns, which is good to know.

 

Hopefully I can learn some more information and report back on these adventures. 

[econometrics]

Wow, that's very interesting. Thanks very much for passing this all along! 

 

My transmission has about 4500 miles on it, but most of that is in 45mph zones with LOTS of stoplights. Hence, I'm going from 0-50mph a LOT. I wonder if my tranny has been going through the levels more quickly? 

 

I have also been doing what @HondaHawkGT mentioned previously and coasting to stops a lot. I can feel the truck really downshifting and slowing me down. Maybe that's been helping? 

[wizard4878]

2 hours ago, bearded_warrior said:

TLDR; Our trucks are video games.  And the engineer repeated a 3-1 bump downshift.

The Problem:
Engineer said the truck has learning levels and currently it is barely in level 2. There are essentially four levels that I know of. In order for it to get to level 3 where the issues should start to level off they need to do 10,000 shifts a different CV points (clutch/torque converter points or something i'm not exactly sure.) These shift points need to pass some set of internal tests and if they are not passing tests they do not count. In order to level up again to get your transmission to level 4 you need to do 100 thousand more shifts after reaching level 3.

The end result of being in a low level means that my transmission pressure is much higher than it should be at these CV points (they gave me specific numbers but I can't remember them off the top of my head, 20-40 kpa higher). I believe I'm having issues with CV1/4/5. As a result when the pressure is high it's causing it to bump, slam, lose power, and do skip shifts. The engineer repeated a 3-1 bump/lurch coming to a stop during the test drive today.

The Proposed Solution:
The dealership will be driving my truck Monday until they can get it to level three in order to do this they have to put it into manual mode and then shift manually up and down between 4th and 5th and 3rd and 2nd. Once they complete this they have to pull over on the side of the road check a laptop to see what level they're at and how far away they are and keep repeating until they hit level three.

Thoughts:
I'm not entirely thrilled with the solution being.. force a bunch of shifts through your vehicle from gears 5-4-3* and back and 3-2 and back every 3 seconds in order for internal transmission tests to pass in a short amount of time. But i'm incredibly interested if that's the fix.

Also, @HondaHawkGT you were spot on with the learning solution you recommended. This falls right in line with the learning hack you suggested. I didn't know that there's many points where the trans learns, which is good to know.

 

Hopefully I can learn some more information and report back on these adventures. 

I sure hope they are paying for all the gas because it sounds like they are going to use a lot with that test

[bearded_warrior]

17 minutes ago, wizard4878 said:

I sure hope they are paying for all the gas because it sounds like they are going to use a lot with that test

They topped it off after putting 300 miles on it another time and popped dents from hail damage while it was in service so I hope they repeat that courtesy.

 

Thinking about it, it is a shame that about 10% of my miles are from service visits, but hopefully this moves things forward. 

[HondaHawkGT]

On 8/9/2019 at 6:50 PM, bearded_warrior said:

TLDR; Our trucks are video games.  And the engineer repeated a 3-1 bump downshift.

The Problem:
Engineer said the truck has learning levels and currently it is barely in level 2. There are essentially four levels that I know of. In order for it to get to level 3 where the issues should start to level off they need to do 10,000 shifts a different CV points (clutch/torque converter points or something i'm not exactly sure.) These shift points need to pass some set of internal tests and if they are not passing tests they do not count. In order to level up again to get your transmission to level 4 you need to do 100 thousand more shifts after reaching level 3.

The end result of being in a low level means that my transmission pressure is much higher than it should be at these CV points (they gave me specific numbers but I can't remember them off the top of my head, 20-40 kpa higher). I believe I'm having issues with CV1/4/5. As a result when the pressure is high it's causing it to bump, slam, lose power, and do skip shifts. The engineer repeated a 3-1 bump/lurch coming to a stop during the test drive today.

The Proposed Solution:
The dealership will be driving my truck Monday until they can get it to level three in order to do this they have to put it into manual mode and then shift manually up and down between 4th and 5th and 3rd and 2nd. Once they complete this they have to pull over on the side of the road check a laptop to see what level they're at and how far away they are and keep repeating until they hit level three.

Thoughts:
I'm not entirely thrilled with the solution being.. force a bunch of shifts through your vehicle from gears 5-4-3* and back and 3-2 and back every 3 seconds in order for internal transmission tests to pass in a short amount of time. But i'm incredibly interested if that's the fix.

Also, @HondaHawkGT you were spot on with the learning solution you recommended. This falls right in line with the learning hack you suggested. I didn't know that there's many points where the trans learns, which is good to know.

 

Hopefully I can learn some more information and report back on these adventures. 

That's great to hear bearded_warrior. I'm glad to hear that you and your truck's issues are getting the attention that was definitely needed.  Your time with the engineer seems to have resulted in some very interesting and helpful information. Hopefully it provides some useful insight into the 8L90 for others that might have odd-ball issues with their new truck.

[bearded_warrior]

On a semi related note - http://fordauthority.com/2019/08/ford-f-150-10-speed-transmission-subject-new-lawsuit/

Quote

So far, Ford has issued two technical service bulletins to address the issue, including TSB 18-2079 and TSB 18-2274. Both confirm the 10R80 10-speed transmission can exhibit harsh or delayed shifts, as well as firmer than normal upshifts and downshifts. One possible explanation is that the “adaptive transmission shift strategy,” which is intended to improve shifting quality, actually worsens the shift quality for several days after the adaptive strategy is reset as the computer relearns various parameters.

This all sounds familiar to what we've been experiencing on our 8 Speed Silverado's and helps build a theory that these issues aren't localized to one manufacturer or another, these newer "Learning" transmissions are struggling in some cases and manifesting in some very rough behavior. 

[eppieguy]

Well, I've been driving a 5.3 8 speed T1 since Thursday, now I do not think it's all that bad, it does bang in to gear from time to time, it does shudder from time to time but I also have a 2014 HC 6.2 6 speed in our fleet and it drives pretty much the same plus searching for gears. I will say I miss my 6.2 10 speed and I am super happy I have that over the 8 speed, total different smooth animal. 

 

Just my .02

[bearded_warrior]

Swung by and talked to the service manager today. Feel bad for the man, he's been out driving around ~5 hours so far and hasn't leveled it up to Level 3 yet on Learning Point C1 (has to do the same for two other points). He has to shift between very specific rpms in a speed range of 30-45 mph. 

 

Only the engineers have the software to see how many shifts are left, dealers can only see the level. He also compared the pressure on my transmission to a few others on the lot.  Mine is still far and above higher than any others, 20-40 kPa, the engineer thinks that it'll adjust those pressures at level 3.

 

Props to the service manager for taking this on though, I can't fathom the insanity of blindly shifting 10k times for each of these points by himself. 

[econometrics]

What a strange ordeal this whole thing is, bearded_warrior, wow. 

 

Yeah, I give that dealership a LOT of credit for doing this. 

[bearded_warrior]

 

It's been a long time, i've been trying to hold tight until everything was resolved, a lot has been going on but i'll try to keep it brief. 

 

GM gave up trying to repair my truck and returned it back to me back in September, offered a "Repurchase Trade" as a possible solution. I chose not to go with the same model and opted for a built 2020 RST 6.2 w/ 10 speed. Of course that was during the strike. November the build order was approved, December the vehicle was built and shipping began, the week prior to Christmas the truck was delivered. The paperwork was finally delivered on 1/24/20 and I picked up the new truck. 

 

This week on my way home 1/22, at approximately 7835 miles, the gremlins finally won and the dashboard started flashing all the lights you don't want to see. (see attached), Service Parking Brake, ESC, check engine, all started flashing at me.  The truck began shuddering under any acceleration, making a humming noise, gear shifts were all over the place and wouldn't shift up if the engine was over 3k rpm, traction/ESC was gone, and at idle it was knocking and shaking. I’m awaiting come information from the dealership to let you all know what happened but no word yet. 

 

I have some gripes with GM throughout this process, detailed more below, but they clearly had no interest in investing anymore resources to me as a customer once I decided to move forward with the buyback process, they have no interest in providing assistance nor a system in place for supporting long running builds.  It was a nightmare trying to communicate with the "Customer Care" program, they wouldn't respond to emails or calls for weeks at a time. The last call with "Customer Care" they refused loaner support for recall repairs, refused to communicate via email or provide anything in writing, and told me I would receive no further support from GM. While I did get a good “deal” from the repurchase, it would have been nice to have some support from Sept-Jan. 

 

Recap Since August: 

• Nothing was ever fixed, the Service Manager resigned and the ball got dropped on my vehicle as it sat on the lot for over a month. 
• GM authorized "Repurchase Trade" - For those unfamiliar, my offer was that GM would buyback the vehicle in exchange for another new vehicle. The cost would be MSRP Difference, Milage ($.25/mile) from first report, taxes/fees.
• GM stopped reimbursing the dealership for a loaner vehicle forcing the dealership to return my vehicle unfixed. (I was in a loaner for >60 days in total when they returned the truck in October)
• Problems with the transmission had been continuing to happen which I continually relayed to the dealership and GM. Dealership said they'd "look at it", but I'd have to stay there and wait with it for a few hours.   
• GM refused to provide a loaner to fix known safety recalls N192270600 and N192268090, and said there would be no further help to me since my vehicle was "drive-able" and that I had chosen to do a "Repurchase Trade".
• Truck finally broke down and limped back to the dealership, who did the right thing and still gave me a loaner vehicle until everything can hopefully be resolved this week. 

 

I hope everyone is having better experiences, from what I hear from the dealership the issues I have had are pretty rare and on the extreme side. I just wanted to close the loop on this thread since I also like to hear if there was any resolution to other troubleshooting threads. Unfortunately in my case, I don't have a solution for anyone.  I'm trying to get the error codes to provide to you all from the dealership but no guarantees. 

 

Anyways, good luck to everyone, and happy new year!

 

[econometrics]

Wow, @bearded_warrior, what a saga. Glad you finally have the new truck. 
 

Let us know how the 10speed feels compared to your faulty A8.