From GM to Ford (Raptor) impressions if interested

crushNchowda · February 20, 2019

Unfortunately I totaled my '15 Sierra SLT premium plus w/ AT package 6.1 & 4x4 - hit a deer @ 70 head on, ironically 2nd time a deer caused me to total GM truck (first was a 2014 5.3 - I avoided that deer couldnt avoid a pole)- what sucked was I owned my sierra outright, had 61-62k on it, just put new set of tires & did a full brake job/tranny/diff fluid swap in last 10-12k miles. On a positive note ultimately got $32.8k for the truck after showing as much recent maint/parts invoices as possible (keep your receipts/records!) & that increased the net payout by about $1200. I shopped around a bit - didn't like the 1/2 ton Rams, not for me - I think they look nice & have a very comfy/techy interior but dial shifter, push button start, heaviest/slowest, air ride concerns etc. turned me off. The fairly loaded (SLT I think?) '19 Cummins I drove was AWESOME however more truck than I could ever really need & nowhere near the same kinda deals on those vs. 1/2 tons.

The '18 leftover GMC/Chevy 1/2 tons were really what I figured I'd end up w/ since the deals out there are very good right now -only issue was finding an SLT premium plus CC w/ 6.2 & 4x4 was very difficult - I wanted the 6.2 again & I really liked the heated steering wheel/sliding window/moonroof. There is a sea of Denalis to choose from, & best deal I found locally was a loaded up Denali ultimate stickered for $66k got em down to $51.8 - I'm not interested in 22"s, power running boards, ventilated seats, etc. but some of the other gadgets are nice to have & I do think that body style is the best of all 1/2 tons in the last 10 years. I much prefer it over the new '19s

I drove a few regular 1/2 ton Fords & didn't really love them, I did like the F250 diesel & IMO in terms of "bang for the buck" they seem to be the best overall, you can get a well optioned F250 turbo diesel for $55-60k crew cab nav leather etc. The Cummins & Duramax trucks all seemed to be $10k higher give or take w/ similar options. Again - F250 seemed a little too much truck for me, but my buddy has a '15 thats got a tune & lift & its insane. The 1/2 ton Rams feel "soft" & slower....but great sounding engine/exhaust, interior comfy as hell, well optioned, can be haggled down easier.....but I was turned off by the lack of performance (the ZF tranny shifts nicely tho)

Then I drove a Raptor, & I was hooked. There are some shortcomings/negatives I have identified in the Ford vs. GM 1/2 tons & I'll list them below, but if you were to ask me if a GMC Denali should be priced equal to a mid-optioned Raptor ultimately....no. My 6.2 Sierra had 3.23 gears w/ 8 speed & a gibson exhaust, after the last tranny update + new fluid & 3x flush from the dealer I still think that truck is the fastest stock full size truck from 70-100 I've been in - alot comes into play w/ that gearing/tire sizes/tranny gear splits etc. The way this Raptor rides though is unreal - it is smooth as glass, no rattles (this isn't even a knock really on GM trucks - I do think they "rattle" a bit because the frame/body is so stiff - doors are heavy etc.), somehow it is able to absorb serious road imperfections while still having "tight" handling & exhibiting minimal body roll considering what it is capable of - definitely better in both departments than my Sierra w/ Bilsteins (and the billys improved both aspects to begin with). Also - it is able to put power down in 2WD amazingly well given the suspension/tire/gear setup & all the power on tap. I've already noticed in situations where I wouldn't/couldn't give the GM all the power for fear of serious wheel hop, losing control of rear end, or having the stability/tc step in @ the wrong time causing an issue - the Raptor just hooks. It simply defies logic.

It is "sneaky" fast - builds power progressively w/ minimal turbo lag & I find myself going faster than intended b/c it is so smooth/quiet.

SO here are some things I miss or "dislike" on the F150 Raptor vs. a comparably equipped GM:

Despite a near $66k sticker price - truck lacks the following (although this stuff can be had it requires higher options)

No power folding mirrors despite power adjustable

No memory seats despite having 10 way power lumbar buckets in front (and adjustable pedals lol)

Does not have auto dual zone climate control

Does not have auto lights

More hard plastics than I'd like in upper trims

Some of the switch gear/buttons seem more flimsy/cheaper materials

No heated steering wheel @ my trim level

*Many of these little things & a bunch more come w/ 802a package - I have 801a*

On the other hand - below are some things I really like that it has or just "likes" in areas that I felt it performed better:

LED lighting all around, "spot" lighting on bottom rockers & outside mirrors that can be turned on indvidually - headlights better than even the newer '18 GM's (cant speak for 19s)

Power locking tailgate

Panoramic roof (there are issues w/ these - seem to be concentrated more in the 14-16 model years w/ less issues on '17+ trucks, but it is very nice option gives the cab an open feel & a high end touch

Magnesium paddle shifters on the steering wheel, steering wheel in general = best I've ever encountered hands down in a truck/SUV & better than 95% of the sports cars/sedans I've driven

The whole touch screen/nav/infotainment system is just entirely better/quicker & more intuitive than GM's - also had to keep in mind my '15 truck essentially had the head unit fry & go bonkers starting around 40k miles (thank god the steering wheel buttons worked)

The bluetooth is MUCH clearer on both receiving & speaking ends

The seats/leather on these trucks seem more comfortable & higher quality @ any trim level - obviously the Raptor's in particular are especially nice

The all AL body is nice to have - you KNOW if you're keeping the truck for a while it isn't going to rust

Frame has a triple "E-coat" from factory w/ 5 year warranty - def seems like it'll hold up from showing rust much better than GM - I treated my truck frame w/ Daubert chem spray once a year

Ability to turn on the LED bed lighting from the bed itself is a nice touch

The cast AL linex coated running boards are a nice feature

I attached the window sticker so you get an idea of the truck I bought - stickered for $65.8 (not sure exactly what else was on for the additional $500 vs. window sticker - dealer installed accessory) I ended up getting the truck for $59.5 + ttl & that included a tonneau & $500 "credit" toward extended warranty (wasn't sure @ time of deal what plan I would take) - ultimately I shelled out another $1000 additonal @ time of delivery for a full bumper to bumper 100k warranty. Was this truck worth $8-9,000 more than the Denali I nearly pulled trigger on? No question. The drivetrain/running gear just feels that much beefier & substantial - its very much like an HD crossed w/ a 1/2 ton w/ a dash of ATV, range rover, & baja truck thrown in. The A-arms, shocks, bushings, bearings, tie-rods, leafs, driveshaft, diffs ALL look/"feel"/perform @ a higher level & seem like in "normal" world use w/ mild offroading towing/hauling it'll all easily outlast the stuff on the standard GM's (and dodge & toyota for that matter)

I may come back to GM - but was time for a change. Happy w/ the purchase & the other plus w/ these trucks is they simply hold value as good or better than anything else out there.

I haven't come close to breaking it in w/ only 150 miles on it thus far lol, old gas still in tank, but from all my research & preliminary results seems like it'll only be 1-1.5 mpg off my 6.2 GM that I had level & 33"s on.....again this is an amazing engineering feat from Ford considering the truck is heavy, has huge LT rated AT tires, 4.10 gears, & has the aero of a brick. You put those tires on a GM - let alone the damn 4.10s - & you can forget about sniffing anything close to 20mpg & 15 would be a stretch.

m3n00b · February 20, 2019

Thanks for the impressions! I was waiting for the new raptor when I bought my truck but couldn't wait any longer. Had a kid on the way and needed a truck for my remodel

Sierra Dan · February 20, 2019

Great honest writeup and post.

The Raptor is in a category all it's own.

Not fair to compare it to a GMC SLT! LOL

All kidding aside congrats and enjoy your truck!

I have hoped for years that GM would produce something from the factory on par with, and can go head to head with a Raptor.

The TrailBoss and AT4 got a bit closer but still no comparison.

SS502 · February 20, 2019

I wouldn't mind a Raptor, probably be my weekend warrior. It should be a fun truck but I am not so sure it's even considered by the typical Denali buyer. Anyway, I would at least enjoy driving one someday. Ecoboost...get that catch can LOL Enjoy your truck and keep us updated on the good and bad!

Nitrousbird · February 20, 2019

1 hour ago, crushNchowda said:

I attached the window sticker so you get an idea of the truck I bought - stickered for $65.8 (not sure exactly what else was on for the additional $500 vs. window sticker - dealer installed accessory) I ended up getting the truck for $59.5 + ttl & that included a tonneau & $500 "credit" toward extended warranty (wasn't sure @ time of deal what plan I would take) - ultimately I shelled out another $1000 additonal @ time of delivery for a full bumper to bumper 100k warranty. Was this truck worth $8-9,000 more than the Denali I nearly pulled trigger on?

3

I would have preferred a Raptor to my truck, but there were no deals on them. You are paying 60k for this truck. You can score a new '18 Denali Ultimate for right under 50k now and could have done a little better in December. When I bought my SLT Premium Plus, it was $44,055 out the door before tax. You are talking a 16k difference in price with less features...more when options in a similar manner. You can score a '19 Denali Ultimate now new for 55k with GM Loyalty (which you would likely could have, since you are coming from a GM truck).

I found the discounts lacking on the Fords and ESPECIALLY on the Raptors. Even with the lesser depreciation the Raptor has, I couldn't make the math work to make sense. Especially since there are a couple requirements in options that would have forced me to an 802a in a Raptor, making it even more money. I would have spent more on a Raptor but not the 20k+ it would have taken to get into what would meet what I wanted.

Now as for your comparisons, some of them aren't exactly fair. You had a '15; you really would have to compare '16+ for the infotainment comparison. Independent tests have proven the '16+ Sierra LED's are better than Ford's. My Sierra has a power locking tailgate, so no difference there. The aluminum body is both a good and bad thing; more expensive to repair and more prone to damage. I'd say it's a wash in that regard. I do agree with some of your other points.

I'd rather have a Raptor, but the price didn't make sense. Hell, I'd rather have a Denali but the price on mine made more sense (I'm basically a $500 grill and painted bumpers away from one at this point...and I'd prefer NOT to have the Mag ride and power running boards).

JimCost2014 · February 20, 2019

Very long post, thought maybe SS502 helped you with it????

Congratulations on your new truck!!! Life is an opportunity to try new things, you are lucky to have the chance to get into a truck like that, Enjoy!!!

SS502 · February 20, 2019

3 minutes ago, JimCost2014 said:

Very long post, thought maybe SS502 helped you with it????

Congratulations on your new truck!!! Life is an opportunity to try new things, you are lucky to have the chance to get into a truck like that, Enjoy!!!

diyer2 · February 20, 2019

Enjoy your Ford.

I'm glad my conscious effort to keep vehicle costs where I believe they are sensible stops the urge to buy new or overly priced vehicles.

That's me though.

They don't make a vehicle over $30 K new or used that is worth that kind of dough.

FlipZ71 · February 20, 2019

The ride is unbelievable in the raptor... specially off road....

crushNchowda · February 20, 2019

1 hour ago, SS502 said:

I wouldn't mind a Raptor, probably be my weekend warrior. It should be a fun truck but I am not so sure it's even considered by the typical Denali buyer. Anyway, I would at least enjoy driving one someday. Ecoboost...get that catch can LOL Enjoy your truck and keep us updated on the good and bad!

Yes - when it comes to the FI motors I def think there's some merit to running a catch can, FWIW the ones made for the 3.5 egoboost are much larger/more connections than what you've come to expect on the V8 applications. Ford does use both direct & port injection - supposedly the port injection helps avoid the carbon buildup on back of valves, but there's still blow by w/ the turbos to consider, at any rate it is something I planned on doing.

I wanted one of these when I knew they were coming up for a redesign, was initially bummed no V8 - but then started reading/watching review after review gushing over it, saw that the MPG's were improved & weight was down, & got more interested. When I realized they were consistently being sold for markups over MSRP though, I completely dropped them from my "radar". Only when I started seriously shopping around did I realize you could haggle on some Raptors, especially '18's or any trucks WITHOUT the 802a equipment group - & then I got alot more interested.

There are positives & negatives for all the truck makes, I do think in general though ALL 1/2 tons are not what they used to be, which is another reason I was also cross shopping some of the HD's - just think they hold up better. The Raptor in a weird way blends both. I still have a soft spot for GM smallblocks, I was sneakily HOPING I dropped another valve right when warranty was ready to expire so I had an excuse for a cam/stall on my 6.2 LOL -

The 10 speed tranny is legit so far from what I can tell - I really like the responsiveness.

300 Blackout · February 20, 2019

Let’s see some pics! The Raptors are very sharp trucks! Thanks for sharing the info.

crushNchowda · February 20, 2019

1 hour ago, Nitrousbird said:

I would have preferred a Raptor to my truck, but there were no deals on them. You are paying 60k for this truck. You can score a new '18 Denali Ultimate for right under 50k now and could have done a little better in December. When I bought my SLT Premium Plus, it was $44,055 out the door before tax. You are talking a 16k difference in price with less features...more when options in a similar manner. You can score a '19 Denali Ultimate now new for 55k with GM Loyalty (which you would likely could have, since you are coming from a GM truck).

I found the discounts lacking on the Fords and ESPECIALLY on the Raptors. Even with the lesser depreciation the Raptor has, I couldn't make the math work to make sense. Especially since there are a couple requirements in options that would have forced me to an 802a in a Raptor, making it even more money. I would have spent more on a Raptor but not the 20k+ it would have taken to get into what would meet what I wanted.

Now as for your comparisons, some of them aren't exactly fair. You had a '15; you really would have to compare '16+ for the infotainment comparison. Independent tests have proven the '16+ Sierra LED's are better than Ford's. My Sierra has a power locking tailgate, so no difference there. The aluminum body is both a good and bad thing; more expensive to repair and more prone to damage. I'd say it's a wash in that regard. I do agree with some of your other points.

I'd rather have a Raptor, but the price didn't make sense. Hell, I'd rather have a Denali but the price on mine made more sense (I'm basically a $500 grill and painted bumpers away from one at this point...and I'd prefer NOT to have the Mag ride and power running boards).

The best price on Denalis w/ a 6.2 mind you, are not under $50k anywhere. There are $50.5k deals @ Laura. I got my local dealer down to $51.8k on a Denali ultimate + ttl - no extended warranty. I got a new '18 raptor for $60,500 + ttl w/ a $1000 tonneau & a 100k mile bumper to bumper warranty. I didn't need a tonneau in the Denali b/c have my leftover from my totaled truck, but if I were to add in a tonneau + warranty on top of it now you're talking probably more like a $6000 difference.

I IMMEDIATELY would've purchased a magnaride delete kit ($450) & sold my stock wheels for $$$ to get new wheel/tire setup, & either Bilstein 5100s or Eiback leveling shocks (+550-$750 w/ install) - I would've kept the magride shocks for resale down the road wouldn't have parted those out (at least not for a while). So between those 2 mods (that I wouldn't have needed on the raptor) + the value of the warranty & a tonneu now you're talking about an even narrower delta between the 2. If I could've found an SLT premium plus w/ the 6.2 & options I wanted probably would've gone that route, but very few left.

Its not like I am not familiar w/ the K2s - I have had 2x2014's & this past 2015, total 115-120k miles between all 3, my buddy has had FOUR lol, he's on a '17 or '18 denali ultimate right now (and coincidentally that truck is on its 2nd torque converter.....) I test drove the 2018's - when a truck capable of leaping 3' in the air for a 50' stretch riding on 35" LT all terrain tires delivers a noticeably more cushy ride than the "ultimate" in luxury trucks....you know its a special vehicle.

All I gotta say is - again, have PLENTY of experience w/ GM trucks - more than most people I see chiming in on the site, had an '07 Silvy previously have owned a G8 GT, GTO, grand prix turbo (back in the day) & my dad & grand dad probably owned a dozen caddies/buicks/GM pickups between the 2 of em as well. I have an '03 Z06 in the garage right now that I love up & down - BUT I'm a gearhead/auto enthusiast in general first & foremost, & I'm telling ya that Ford nailed it on this one.

Drive one & you will see.

If you want another prime of example of them doing something really well, get a ride (or better yet test drive) a new mustang w/ the voodoo V8 - best sounding engine I have ever heard in person. Track machine outta the box.

No hard feelings toward GM - had its issues, but I know any make can. Good luck & I'll check in from time to time may be able to assist in some of the troubleshooting stuff.

Edited February 20, 2019 by crushNchowda

SS502 · February 20, 2019

Sweet ride Chowder...glad you’re happy and really that’s all it’s about! Oh and a flatplane engine always sounds great!

Edited February 20, 2019 by SS502

draperfish · February 20, 2019

Congratulations, great write up. I'd love to have a Raptor I think they're awesome trucks.

Nitrousbird · February 21, 2019

3 hours ago, crushNchowda said:

The best price on Denalis w/ a 6.2 mind you, are not under $50k anywhere. There are $50.5k deals @ Laura. I got my local dealer down to $51.8k on a Denali ultimate + ttl - no extended warranty. I got a new '18 raptor for $60,500 + ttl w/ a $1000 tonneau & a 100k mile bumper to bumper warranty. I didn't need a tonneau in the Denali b/c have my leftover from my totaled truck, but if I were to add in a tonneau + warranty on top of it now you're talking probably more like a $6000 difference.

I IMMEDIATELY would've purchased a magnaride delete kit ($450) & sold my stock wheels for $$$ to get new wheel/tire setup, & either Bilstein 5100s or Eiback leveling shocks (+550-$750 w/ install) - I would've kept the magride shocks for resale down the road wouldn't have parted those out (at least not for a while). So between those 2 mods (that I wouldn't have needed on the raptor) + the value of the warranty & a tonneu now you're talking about an even narrower delta between the 2. If I could've found an SLT premium plus w/ the 6.2 & options I wanted probably would've gone that route, but very few left.

Its not like I am not familiar w/ the K2s - I have had 2x2014's & this past 2015, total 115-120k miles between all 3, my buddy has had FOUR lol, he's on a '17 or '18 denali ultimate right now (and coincidentally that truck is on its 2nd torque converter.....) I test drove the 2018's - when a truck capable of leaping 3' in the air for a 50' stretch riding on 35" LT all terrain tires delivers a noticeably more cushy ride than the "ultimate" in luxury trucks....you know its a special vehicle.

All I gotta say is - again, have PLENTY of experience w/ GM trucks - more than most people I see chiming in on the site, had an '07 Silvy previously have owned a G8 GT, GTO, grand prix turbo (back in the day) & my dad & grand dad probably owned a dozen caddies/buicks/GM pickups between the 2 of em as well. I have an '03 Z06 in the garage right now that I love up & down - BUT I'm a gearhead/auto enthusiast in general first & foremost, & I'm telling ya that Ford nailed it on this one.

Drive one & you will see.

If you want another prime of example of them doing something really well, get a ride (or better yet test drive) a new mustang w/ the voodoo V8 - best sounding engine I have ever heard in person. Track machine outta the box.

No hard feelings toward GM - had its issues, but I know any make can. Good luck & I'll check in from time to time may be able to assist in some of the troubleshooting stuff.

Laura has a new '18 Denali Ultimate for $50209. Subtract $1000 for financing through GM financial, that it $49209. Add fees and you are at $49,400 before tax.

I am not saying the Raptor isn't nice, because it is. I am saying for a well optioned one, you are significantly higher in price than a Denali Ultimate.

As for the Mustang...yeah, I will take a '16+ Camaro 2SS (even better in 1LE trim). Lighter and faster in a straight line and corners. Will likely be what replaces my BMW in the next couple of years. Only newer Mustangs current available I would want are the GT350/350R but the prices on those are just stupid...ZL1 prices at that point and that's a lot more car for the money.