The "Catch Can" Explained - By Elite Engineering

[Crobinson16]

Ok one other question , when using a dual valve catch can, without a CSS, I see that elite uses a location just in front of the throttle body and one of the tubes in the intake pipe and one gets blocked off., and I believe UPR uses the oil fil cap location and is somehow tied into there dual valve setup without a CSS. So I'm trying to determine what the difference is between Elite's and UPRs location of hoses and ports in the dual valve set up without using a CSS. 

['17 Sierra]

1 hour ago, Crobinson16 said:

Ok one other question , when using a dual valve catch can, without a CSS, I see that elite uses a location just in front of the throttle body and one of the tubes in the intake pipe and one gets blocked off., and I believe UPR uses the oil fil cap location and is somehow tied into there dual valve setup without a CSS. So I'm trying to determine what the difference is between Elite's and UPRs location of hoses and ports in the dual valve set up without using a CSS. 

The dual ports are only if you want the addition of CSS. So the second port is only used with CCS and tapping into the clean side tube. CCS comes into play with low to no vacuum; especially with forced air induction when there’s actually positive pressure in the intake manifold. With NA motors, another advantage of a CSS (2 port can) is when towing or racing which are low vacuum events. Personally, I think a single port is more than adequate since I don’t tow and I don’t think my truck is a race car. I also didn’t want to tap into the clean side nor have all the extra hoses. I installed the new Elite single port and am very happy with it. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by '17 Sierra

[Crobinson16]

Not sure that's correct about the CSS Both companies offer the dual valve CC without the addition of the CCS. Why would they offer it without it , your saying you have to use the CCS with the dual valve setup.

[Elite Engineering]

4 hours ago, '17 Sierra said:

The dual ports are only if you want the addition of CSS. So the second port is only used with CCS and tapping into the clean side tube. CCS comes into play with low to no vacuum; especially with forced air induction when there’s actually positive pressure in the intake manifold. With NA motors, another advantage of a CSS (2 port can) is when towing or racing which are low vacuum events. Personally, I think a single port is more than adequate since I don’t tow and I don’t think my truck is a race car. I also didn’t want to tap into the clean side nor have all the extra hoses. I installed the new Elite single port and am very happy with it. 

 

I'm sorry, but that's not correct.  The CSS is a completely separate, and independent system from the Catch Can.  The CSS addresses the "Clean" side of the engine only, while the Catch Can is used on the "dirty" side of the engine.

 

 

['17 Sierra]

46 minutes ago, Elite Engineering said:

 

I'm sorry, but that's not correct.  The CSS is a completely separate, and independent system from the Catch Can.  The CSS addresses the "Clean" side of the engine only, while the Catch Can is used on the "dirty" side of the engine.

 

 

I thought the Clean Side Separator used vacuum from the intake, forward of the throttle body for when manifold vacuum wasn't sufficient to vent the crankcase. Shows ya what I know LOL! So what's the 3rd port on the 3 portcan used for then? One to the intake manifold, one to the crackase and the 3rd?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see the 3rd port is optional for forced induction set ups. Sorry to butt in ;)

Edited October 3, 2018 by '17 Sierra

[Elite Engineering]

15 minutes ago, '17 Sierra said:

I thought the Clean Side Separator used vacuum from the intake, forward of the throttle body for when manifold vacuum wasn't sufficient to vent the crankcase. Shows ya what I know LOL! So what's the 3rd port on the 3 portcan used for then? One to the intake manifold, one to the crackase and the 3rd?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see the 3rd port is optional for forced induction set ups. Sorry to butt in ;)

 

Here's a link:

https://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/171971-the-catch-can-explained/?do=findComment&comment=2157473

 

 

[Crobinson16]

Can you explain the why you chose the location of just in front of the throttle body, vs where UPR I believe uses the oil fill location. It looks similar to a CSS but it's not. 

[Crobinson16]

Can you explain the why you chose the location of just in front of the throttle body, vs where UPR I believe uses the oil fill location. It looks similar to a CSS but it's not. What is the difference of to locations of the 2nd valve in the dual valve catch can with out the CSS. the setup is different between upr and elite.

[Elite Engineering]

23 hours ago, Crobinson16 said:

Can you explain the why you chose the location of just in front of the throttle body, vs where UPR I believe uses the oil fill location. It looks similar to a CSS but it's not. What is the difference of to locations of the 2nd valve in the dual valve catch can with out the CSS. the setup is different between upr and elite.

 

The only place you can find a secondary evacuation suction source strong enough to provide proper evacuation when accelerating or at Wide Open Throttle is just where we tap in using the Venturi Effect to generate the needed vacuum. What your referring to with UPR, is NOT going to provide proper evacuation during acceleration and WOT.  

 

[Joe@UPRproducts]

Incorrect as the evacuation between both locations has a minimal difference in vacuum. This has been proven with a lot of testing done by our end users on GM, Ford, and Dodge trucks. We just prefer not to destroy a perfectly good intake tube and drill holes in factory parts and potentially cause any warranty issues for the end users. We have seen many truck owners have problems with the service departments and " The juice is not worth the squeeze" so anyone reading this is aware of potential headaches with any service writer and warranty. Some dealers will let it slide and to us it's never worth the risk for the nominal difference in performance as the vacuum at the end of the tube is almost identical. So now you have to consider some air intakes have the secondary vacuum connection close to the throttle body or midstream and this will give you very similar results with a factory style connection. ( No drilling required )

 

On a personal note. Drilling looks modified and incomplete, losing the OEM factory look and connections.

 

Hope this helps anyone reading why not to drill any factory tubes.

 

Joe

Edited October 6, 2018 by JoeCCS

[Crobinson16]

2 hours ago, JoeCCS said:

Incorrect as the evacuation between both locations has a minimal difference in vacuum. This has been proven with a lot of testing done by our end users on GM, Ford, and Dodge trucks. We just prefer not to destroy a perfectly good intake tube and drill holes in factory parts and potentially cause any warranty issues for the end users. We have seen many truck owners have problems with the service departments and " The juice is not worth the squeeze" so anyone reading this is aware of potential headaches with any service writer and warranty. Some dealers will let it slide and to us it's never worth the risk for the nominal difference in performance as the vacuum at the end of the tube is almost identical. So now you have to consider some air intakes have the secondary vacuum connection close to the throttle body or midstream and this will give you very similar results with a factory style connection. ( No drilling required )

 

On a personal note. Drilling looks modified and incomplete, losing the OEM factory look and connections.

 

Hope this helps anyone reading why not to drill any factory tubes.

 

Joe

In your dual valve catch can set up without a cssy, what is the purpose of the piece that goes in the oil fil cap location. I have a Airaid MIT that already has two threaded holes just in front of the throttle body for connecting of the tubes from the valve covers. Why use a fitting in the oil fil cap if you can use one of the ports in the intake piping? Just trying to understand the difference in location. I think I want the dual valve setup, and I'm pretty sure I don't want a CSS. If the dual valve setup benefits turbo , and not much benefit for na, the. I'll probably just stick to the single valve.? 

[RDKILL]

On 10/6/2018 at 12:57 PM, Crobinson16 said:

In your dual valve catch can set up without a cssy, what is the purpose of the piece that goes in the oil fil cap location. I have a Airaid MIT that already has two threaded holes just in front of the throttle body for connecting of the tubes from the valve covers. Why use a fitting in the oil fil cap if you can use one of the ports in the intake piping? Just trying to understand the difference in location. I think I want the dual valve setup, and I'm pretty sure I don't want a CSS. If the dual valve setup benefits turbo , and not much benefit for na, the. I'll probably just stick to the single valve.? 

I have the Elite dual/css and my CAI is a AFE which also has two holes for the hoses coming from the valve covers.

• I connected the CSS from the oil fill to the hole closest to my MAF on my intake, and the 2nd exist from the can to the hole closest to the TB.
• I also have 2 check valves installed facing away from the can, one connected just below the TB and the other connected to the PCV on the driver's side center of the manifold.
• These check valves also make a hissing sound like I can hear air coming out, but when I cover them with my hand I don't feel anything and the sound doesn't change.
• I mounted my can on the driver's side inside fender just above the secondary battery tray, so the hose route is longer than most from the master brake or radiator mount.

 

With all that said, I checked my can after 415 miles and I don't have a drop of oil in it.

 

Soooo... now my question to the ones in the know:

• Is my engine that efficient?
• Connections wrong?
• Is the can inefficient?
• Is the hose route too long?
• Are the check valves faulty?
• Other reasons?

[Elite Engineering]

7 hours ago, RDKILL said:

 

Soooo... now my question to the ones in the know:

• Is my engine that efficient?
• Connections wrong?
• Is the can inefficient?
• Is the hose route too long?
• Are the check valves faulty?
• Other reasons?

 

Can you email us a couple pictures of your hose routing, and we'll confirm?  You can email to:

 

[email protected]  or [email protected]

 

[RDKILL]

10 hours ago, Elite Engineering said:

 

Can you email us a couple pictures of your hose routing, and we'll confirm?  You can email to:

 

[email protected]  or [email protected]

 

Ok, I'll get some pics today and email from my phone.

[Joe@UPRproducts]

Crobinson16: UPR Single Valve Plug n Play is the way to go if you don't want the CSS and have the airaid and want to keep it simple. 

 

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RDKILL: Usually hissing is from a restrictive or low flowing check valve which high airspeed or vacuum fighting through. Basically the same as when you hold your hand over the end of a vacuum and restrict it then you get a hissing or air squeal. Try opening the check valve and removing the internals and see if the hissing goes away. Certain hi-flow units with ceramic balls will create an air noise from the excessive flow as well. 

 

Joe