The "Catch Can" Explained - By Elite Engineering

[RDKILL]

Ordered my E2 can with CSS today, hopefully it will get here this weekend, but I doubt it since I choose the cheapest delivery...ground.

I did not do any upgrades like hoses or check valves, but I did order those items from somewhere else which saved me some $$

 

I'll post some pics....IF I can figure out how to do that on this forum, for those that may have the same CAI as I do.

 

Thanks again Steve for your responses on my emails and questions.

[Elite Engineering]

17 hours ago, RDKILL said:

Ordered my E2 can with CSS today, hopefully it will get here this weekend, but I doubt it since I choose the cheapest delivery...ground.

I did not do any upgrades like hoses or check valves, but I did order those items from somewhere else which saved me some $$

 

I'll post some pics....IF I can figure out how to do that on this forum, for those that may have the same CAI as I do.

 

Thanks again Steve for your responses on my emails and questions.

 

Thank you for the order, and let us know if you need any help posting pictures to the forum.

 

Steve

 

 

[Doublebase]

Well I installed a catch can yesterday - after one day of driving (100 miles) I checked it and was shocked at how much oil it caught. My truck only has 13,000 miles on it, I didn't figure I'd be catching much of anything, but I was wrong. Although I didn't measure it, it looked like there was maybe a couple ounces in it.

 

So the first thing I'm thinking is...this normal? Jesus I only have 13,000 on the engine...it's a 2018. I do have 3,500 miles on the oil, so maybe it's sheared a bit? Making it easier to get sucked up the PCV system?

 

The other question I have comes from something someone asked me today, and it was...do you really want to remove all that oil and moisture from the intake and upper engine? I thought that was a good question...water/moisture, when heated has been known to be excellent at cleaning upper engine components. And oil, when put into the combustion chamber can add some lubrication. I figure a catch can isn't removing all of that anyway, so it's probably good, plus I don't want soot and carbon deposits covering the valves. But I did think that was an interesting point someone made to me.

[RDKILL]

7 hours ago, Elite Engineering said:

 

Thank you for the order, and let us know if you need any help posting pictures to the forum.

 

Steve

 

 

Well I tried to post a pic using the "choose files" tab, but only a link showed and not a pic.

I chose the pic from my computer photo file so not sure if that's how it's done or not. Or do I need a host like photo bucket to post pics?

 

My can should be here tomorrow some time, and I'm hoping to install on Saturday, just need to dodge rain drops.

[Elite Engineering]

7 hours ago, Doublebase said:

It's a cheap $30 dollar catch can on Amazon.

 

 

Buyer beware, there are lot’s of cheap $30 Catch Cans on the market, but an empty can you buy for $30 will be no more effective than taking a beer can with some fittings and using that.  Better than no Catch Can for sure, as you want to stop all of this ingestion, but none of these will do even 1/2 the job the latest Elite designs do.

 

We manufacture and offer the most effective systems on the market period, and have many price ranges from or original Elite standard can that became the industry standard years ago for the budget minded port injection owners, to the E2 at twice the capacity and the dual outlet design, to the E2-X and E2-X Ultra as the most effective design available with the billet checkvalves, AN fittings, and deluxe drain standard.  

 

We, unlike most any other brand, do actual testing of most any can on the market (as above). We purchase them, test them, dissect them, and learn. Take ANY of the cheap brands or the most recognized big names, and no one offers a more effective solution tailored to your actual engine and application than Elite Engineering USA. And we are willing to have anyone do as described above to see just how poorly 99% of all cans, no matter what the price actually perform. It is not how much is caught as all engines produce different levels of blow-by, it is what a can lets through, or past to still be ingested and cause the issues. Then look at our cleanside separator and all the additional compounds our latest models trap in addition to dirty oil.

 

Take ANY catch can on the market, and install the Elite E2 or E2-X can in series AFTER the other can and the Elite will catch as much or more than the first can AFTER the first can did it's best. Then reverse the order and see almost nothing gets past the Elite E2 or E2-X. That does away with any question what the actual value is.

 

[Doublebase]

6 hours ago, Elite Engineering said:

 

Buyer beware, there are lot’s of cheap $30 Catch Cans on the market, but an empty can you buy for $30 will be no more effective than taking a beer can with some fittings and using that.  Better than no Catch Can for sure, as you want to stop all of this ingestion, but none of these will do even 1/2 the job the latest Elite designs do.

 

 

 

 

 

We manufacture and offer the most effective systems on the market period, and have many price ranges from or original Elite standard can that became the industry standard years ago for the budget minded port injection owners, to the E2 at twice the capacity and the dual outlet design, to the E2-X and E2-X Ultra as the most effective design available with the billet checkvalves, AN fittings, and deluxe drain standard.  

 

 

 

We, unlike most any other brand, do actual testing of most any can on the market (as above). We purchase them, test them, dissect them, and learn. Take ANY of the cheap brands or the most recognized big names, and no one offers a more effective solution tailored to your actual engine and application than Elite Engineering USA. And we are willing to have anyone do as described above to see just how poorly 99% of all cans, no matter what the price actually perform. It is not how much is caught as all engines produce different levels of blow-by, it is what a can lets through, or past to still be ingested and cause the issues. Then look at our cleanside separator and all the additional compounds our latest models trap in addition to dirty oil.

 

 

 

Take ANY catch can on the market, and install the Elite E2 or E2-X can in series AFTER the other can and the Elite will catch as much or more than the first can AFTER the first can did it's best. Then reverse the order and see almost nothing gets past the Elite E2 or E2-X. That does away with any question what the actual value is.

 

 

 

 

Well I didn't buy an empty can, the can I bought has a double baffle and it seems to work great. If an empty beer can could do what this can does...I would have went with an empty beer can. Lol.

 

I briefly considered your cans, I'm sure they're great, but unfortunately you're in a business where people are making some good cans for $30 bucks. Maybe your can is better...sure it is. But I could buy eleven of these cans for the price of your top model...put them all in line and most likely suck all of the oil out of my crankcase. I have zero interest in getting the "most" drops of oil (heck most people thought I was crazy for even putting a can on in the first place). My little $30 dollar can is capturing plenty of oil in a 13,000 mile truck.

[RDKILL]

Installed my Elite Engineering Catch Can today.

Installation was pretty straight forward, the only problem I had was finding a place to mount it.

I tried the windshield washer fluid mount area, but the bolt was too short and I couldn't tighten it.

I then looked at the brake booster mount, but seemed too tight especially when it comes time to drain the can, since I would have to unscrew the bottom can.

My next choice was above the radiator, but same issue as the brake booster not enough space when drain time comes.

Being perplexed, I kept looking around and I found  a spot right above the spare battery tray on the driver's side inside fender.

What at first looked like a spot weld, I stuck my hand behind it through the large opening and found it was a thin piece of foam...not sure what/why this is there.

So I got a wood screw and pushed it through the foam to screw out some of the foam, got a bolt/nut/lock washer/washer and mounted the bracket.

I had to contort my arms to hold the nut and tighten the bolt, but eventually I won and got it tight.

From that point on it was a breeze...

I purchased a cable cutter from Harbor Freight (19.99) using a 20% coupon ($15.99) and it cut the braided hoses like butter, great tool and an even greater price.

 

There's a slight whistling sound, which I believe is from the check valves, being when I cover them with my hand the sound becomes quieter, but doesn't change when I cover any of the joints going into the can.

I also used the GM hose connectors, cut them off the OEM hose and used them on the braided hose with the supplied hose clamps.

I'll put on a couple of hundred miles and check to see what/how much I collect in the can and post the results.

 

I hope the pic of the mounting area will come out in this post...if it does I'll post more and ignore the dirty battery tray!

 

CC Mount.bmp

[Joe@UPRproducts]

On 9/21/2018 at 6:51 PM, Doublebase said:

Well I didn't buy an empty can, the can I bought has a double baffle and it seems to work great. If an empty beer can could do what this can does...I would have went with an empty beer can. Lol.

 

I briefly considered your cans, I'm sure they're great, but unfortunately you're in a business where people are making some good cans for $30 bucks. Maybe your can is better...sure it is. But I could buy eleven of these cans for the price of your top model...put them all in line and most likely suck all of the oil out of my crankcase. I have zero interest in getting the "most" drops of oil (heck most people thought I was crazy for even putting a can on in the first place). My little $30 dollar can is capturing plenty of oil in a 13,000 mile truck.

DB,

I just wanted to clear the air on octane stability and catching as much oil as possible are two variables that go hand in hand to consistently give you the very best MPG and Overall performance. Over the course of a year or two the system will pay itself off if you choose one of the top performing catch cans. I can do more than the other companies and confirm I too in the late 90's did not believe in catch cans. I have been working with testing and continually seeing the benefits of the most efficient catch cans vs all the generic low buck aKa suck through catch cans with generic baffling and I'm not talking about empty catch cans either.

 

I am not here to tell you who's catch can to buy. I'm only here to let you know the more efficient your catch can is the greater the return in protection and performance. The placebo catch cans are abundant, not just eBay catch cans either as the majority have some internal baffling and collect oil making the purchaser think they did the job and got a great deal for so much less. You saved money which is always a bonus, the problem is you are still allowing the octane to be lowered from the oil that gets past the catch can that is only catching half or less of the oil that should all be caught. This reduces MPG over a clean combustion as well as the loss of a crisp responsive throttle.

 

I just wanted to share that with you as all manufacturers are not just about sales and I can always answer questions and not just copy and paste the same form letter responses about results and pictures with catch cans being emptied that look like coffee with tons of condensation in them. I'm proud of our products and only offer performance upgrades with real-world results as we continually improve and deliver great products. I'm not one to use the placebo effect to sell products.

 

BTW, thank you for sharing your findings as well.

 

Joe

[Doublebase]

On 9/27/2018 at 10:48 AM, JoeCCS said:

DB,

I just wanted to clear the air on octane stability and catching as much oil as possible are two variables that go hand in hand to consistently give you the very best MPG and Overall performance. Over the course of a year or two the system will pay itself off if you choose one of the top performing catch cans. I can do more than the other companies and confirm I too in the late 90's did not believe in catch cans. I have been working with testing and continually seeing the benefits of the most efficient catch cans vs all the generic low buck aKa suck through catch cans with generic baffling and I'm not talking about empty catch cans either.

 

I am not here to tell you who's catch can to buy. I'm only here to let you know the more efficient your catch can is the greater the return in protection and performance. The placebo catch cans are abundant, not just eBay catch cans either as the majority have some internal baffling and collect oil making the purchaser think they did the job and got a great deal for so much less. You saved money which is always a bonus, the problem is you are still allowing the octane to be lowered from the oil that gets past the catch can that is only catching half or less of the oil that should all be caught. This reduces MPG over a clean combustion as well as the loss of a crisp responsive throttle.

 

I just wanted to share that with you as all manufacturers are not just about sales and I can always answer questions and not just copy and paste the same form letter responses about results and pictures with catch cans being emptied that look like coffee with tons of condensation in them. I'm proud of our products and only offer performance upgrades with real-world results as we continually improve and deliver great products. I'm not one to use the placebo effect to sell products.

 

BTW, thank you for sharing your findings as well.

 

Joe

I agree on the octane rating and fuel economy boost. I have experienced a fuel economy boost since installing the can - I have averaged 26 mpg in two weeks of driving (1,100 miles). That's an increase of maybe .5 mpg. Of course weather/temperature is a factor, etc.

 

These engines can handle knock and adjust quickly. It does have variable valve timing. It does have a map sensor, iat sensor and MAF sensor. So I think it can/will adjust to oil in fuel very quickly based off several inputs, but it seems still nice to remove some of the oil.

 

I read through over 200 reviews on my catch can before I purchased it. It was the highest rated catch can on Amazon. I took it to a rather enourmous machine shop and had three friends take a look at the chraftsmanship and quality of the product and they agreed it was very good. Now unlike you, they don't specialize in catch cans...they don't know if it "works". But I'm an ASE master certified tech and I can assure you that it catches quite a bit of oil...there has been no water dilution as of yet (probably because of the weather/temps) and the baffle design seems to be working.

 

Like I said previously - I'm sure there are more high quality units available - I'm sure your products are better. But don't let the $30 price tag fool you on this particular can, its made of high quality materials, its heavy, it's machined well and it works. It has its faults...it comes with zero mounting hardware, the reservoir isn't all that big (probably to reduce cost) and it has no drain valve on the bottom. I have to unscrew it to empty it. It has a dipstick and I added an O-ring to that because I didn't want to chance a vacuum leak. I also added liquid pipe sealer to the fitting on the can. And it comes with no hoses. So it's not perfect by any means. But it does work. It's not plug and play but if you have any mechanical ability you can install it rather easily. 

 

Again I'm sure your product is better...I described why. But the can I purchased was on sale, and it does work. I don't like that my can is made in China, it's tough to compete with their manufacturing I imagine. If cost was closer I would have went with one of the companies on this thread. And I don't mean to demean any of them at all, I'm sure they are great products.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Doublebase

[Crobinson16]

Ok so the dual valve catch can in theory work better than the single valve,? So can you use a dual valve catch can without the ccs, what is the purpose of the ccs in a dual valve catch can or any single or dual valve catch can set up. What do the internal workings or material look like in your CCS. Do you have a picture of what the dual valve set up looks like on a 6.2 with out using the CCS.  Either with a Cai or stock intake. I'll be using a CAI.  JoeCCS , Elite Engineering ?

[Elite Engineering]

2 hours ago, Crobinson16 said:

Ok so the dual valve catch can in theory work better than the single valve,? So can you use a dual valve catch can without the ccs, what is the purpose of the ccs in a dual valve catch can or any single or dual valve catch can set up. What do the internal workings or material look like in your CCS. Do you have a picture of what the dual valve set up looks like on a 6.2 with out using the CCS.  Either with a Cai or stock intake. I'll be using a CAI.  JoeCCS , Elite Engineering ?

 

Good questions.  In short, yes our Dual Catch Can is a better performing Catch Can than the Single.

 

On all the Elite Engineering Catch Cans, the center, top port is always the INLET connection from the crankcase.

 

So, the only real option is the Single EXIT or the Dual EXIT Catch Can.

 

On a NA engine, during acceleration, the intake manifold vacuum is used as the suction source to evacuate the damaging compounds entering as blow-by from the crankcase before they can settle and mix with the oil.

 

But, when you accelerate, that vacuum drops to zero and no evacuation takes place. It is during these periods that the water, raw fuel, sulfuric acid, and abrasive soot, carbon, and ash particles settle and mix with the oil, and these cause the wear to the engine.

 

The Dual Catch Can (second Exit fitting) is used to tap into an alternate evacuation suction source. This source is typically at a location just in front, or upstream of the throttle body.  Note: If you do choose to install the Dual Exit (second Exit Port), you will be required to drill into your existing intake tube and insert a hose barb fitting.  In addition, we use one-way inline checkvalves to open and close, to always default to the strongest suction source at the time.  This provides full time crankcase evacuation instead of only when not accelerating or at wide open throttle (WOT) when no vacuum is present.

 

Additional comment:

Why does the vacuum drop to zero at WOT? The cam lobes all have overlap. That overlap is when the exhaust valve has not fully closed and the intake valve is starting to open (and vice versa). This allows reversion pulses to travel back up each intake runner and these cancel the vacuum present. This is also the period when pressure builds in the crankcase seeking the path of least resistance, which is backwards through the clean, or fresh side of the PCV system pushing oil and contaminate laden vapors into your main intake air tube assy. 

 

The CSS is a completely separate unit.  It addresses the "clean" side of the engine.  When installed, it replaces your stock Oil Fill Cap.  The clean-side separator (CSS) completes any Catch Can installation by diverting clean, or fresh incoming air through the unit that replaces the oil fill cap. It has internal coalescing media designed to trap and contain oil that is part of the crankcase vapors when flow is momentarily “back flowing” with a single outlet system or the OEM PCV system.  It retains a closed system and 100% MAF metered air as well as is emissions compliant. Far better than any breather use.

 

Here's a link to the installation on our website.  You can ignore the last part that shows the CSS install.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Elite Engineering

[Crobinson16]

Good information, I guess I'm still not totally seeing the picture of how the dual Vale catch can operates, in other words, on a Silverado there is the pcv valve, and I understand how it operates with the single valve catch can and it's location. The two pipes hoses coming from the top of the valve covers are still used and remain in place unchanged now if I decide to go to a dual valve set up are those two hoses still remain the same? Why do you need to tap a port in the intake piping either using the factory inlet or a Cai , there is already two ports in there coming from the valve covers? I guess that's where I'm confused and trying to figure out what happens with those tubes when using a dual valve set up with out the clean side separator. Those tubes are going to still induce oil vapor's into the intake stream using a single valve catch can set up. I was thinking the dual valve set up would incorporate something to handle those two hoses coming off the valve covers? Also if  using a Airaid MIT , there are two thread ports in the tube, is there still a need to drill another hole? Would you have a picture of what the inside material is in your ccs . I never liked the idea of loosse wires mesh or what looks like a scrub pad, I'm always afraid something would break loose and get into the motor.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Crobinson16

[Elite Engineering]

4 hours ago, Crobinson16 said:

Good information, I guess I'm still not totally seeing the picture of how the dual Vale catch can operates, in other words, on a Silverado there is the pcv valve, and I understand how it operates with the single valve catch can and it's location. The two pipes hoses coming from the top of the valve covers are still used and remain in place unchanged now if I decide to go to a dual valve set up are those two hoses still remain the same? Why do you need to tap a port in the intake piping either using the factory inlet or a Cai , there is already two ports in there coming from the valve covers? I guess that's where I'm confused and trying to figure out what happens with those tubes when using a dual valve set up with out the clean side separator. Those tubes are going to still induce oil vapor's into the intake stream using a single valve catch can set up. I was thinking the dual valve set up would incorporate something to handle those two hoses coming off the valve covers? Also if  using a Airaid MIT , there are two thread ports in the tube, is there still a need to drill another hole? Would you have a picture of what the inside material is in your ccs . I never liked the idea of loosse wires mesh or what looks like a scrub pad, I'm always afraid something would break loose and get into the motor.

 

All good questions.

 

First lets go over the PCV system as it is stock, on the newer LT based GDI V8's.

 

Filtered fresh MAF metered air enters each valve cover from the main intake air bridge assembly via the 2 muffler "wings". This is drawn past the rocker arms and down the pushrod valleys into the main portion of the crankcase where it flushes and makes up for the foul/dirty contaminant laden vapors being evacuated (sucked out) of the valley. The rate of flow is controlled by a fixed orifice that is part of the PCV cartridge (a version of the traditional PCV valve but more accurate in regulating the rate of flow and also containing a good sealing checkvalve).  These vapors are then drawn into the intake manifold to be burned in the combustion process.  

 

The problem is it replies solely on the vacuum from the intake manifold to provide suction to do this. Using a single valve can does not address the periods when your accelerating or at WOT when valve overlap reversion pulses or "spikes" cancel any usable vacuum and no evacuation takes place. It is during acceleration or WOT that crankcase pressure builds as there is no evacuation taking place. This is also when the contaminants constantly entering as blow-by settle and mix with the engine oil. Once these mix with the oil, most remains in the oil as the particles are smaller than the micron size the average oil filter can trap. During these periods as pressure builds, parasitic power loss occurs due to the pistons having to fight the pressure on each down stroke. Further, as all modern engines are built with low tension piston rings, the rings rely on pressure above and suction below to seal properly. When pressure is allowed to build in the crankcase (due to no evacuation suction being present) the piston rings lose stability and are not able to seal properly so blow-by increases.

 

Our dual valve system uses the intake manifold vacuum for suction when at idle, light cruise, and deceleration. And when accelerating or at WOT, we use a secondary suction source to continue pulling suction and evacuation when accelerating or at wide open throttle. This secondary source is the suction generated by the Venturi Effect of flow past a barb you install just in front (upstream) of the throttle body. Reversion pulses do not reach past the throttle body until well over 8k RPM and we don't spin these engines that high. It is not from a restriction of the air filter as some mistakenly assume that provides the suction, but the flow past the barb (Google search "Venturi Effect Vacuum generators") that creates this suction.  As we include 2 checkvalves, they will automatically open and close to always default to the strongest suction source available providing full time evacuation VS part time as a single valve would.

 

Now, lets address the clean/fresh side.  You can choose to install without the CSS, but as a small amount of oil ingestion can enter from the factory clean/fresh lines (from each valve cover), it is advised to address all points of ingestion as our billet cleanside separator has coalescing media inside the separation chamber to trap any oil that may enter during the transition between suction sources. This will then be drawn back into the valve cover as soon as suction is adequate.  There should be no danger of the coalescing mesh escaping the CSS as it is stainless steel, and is a continues mesh, no wire. And the holes in the barb and bottom can be screened to make it impossible, but as it comes it would be very unlikely.  We include a bridge hose to connect each valve cover as we change the path of the incoming fresh air so it enters the drivers side and then splits to the passenger side valve cover to maintain the same flushing as stock. So the air enters the drivers side valve cover via the CSS and splits to the passenger side as well retaining the same flow path.  You do NOT want to attach the CSS line to the same location as the second outlet from the can as the incoming air flow is greatest at the TB inlet, and we do not want the same amount of suction on each. The second outlet from the can must be stronger than the clean/fresh so flow direction is maintained. So the clean/fresh side hose should be sourced app 1" downstream from the MAF. As the main air filter disperses suction the closer you are to it, the second outlet from the can will realize stronger suction maintaining fresh air in, foul vapors out.

 

Hopefully this answers all of the questions, but as always, ask on any portion not clear.

 

If you have a question, please ask before ordering or for any application specific questions your not sure on to email our technical support team direct at: [email protected]  Sales is: [email protected] of course if you already know what you wish to order just go direct to our website.

 

Thanks!!

 

[bsprtsgrp]

Ordered a new E2-X Catch Can today, hopefully it will ship quickly so I can get it installed. I am afraid to open up my Airaide MIT and see what's inside of it at 23K

[Elite Engineering]

13 minutes ago, bsprtsgrp said:

Ordered a new E2-X Catch Can today, hopefully it will ship quickly so I can get it installed. I am afraid to open up my Airaide MIT and see what's inside of it at 23K

 

Thanks for your order this morning. We'll get this packaged and shipped via. FedEx today.