The "Catch Can" Explained - By Elite Engineering

bkesting · January 28, 2018

43 minutes ago, joesan5 said:

Crankcase vent hose from gm parts direct part # 12619982 https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-parts/gm-s-tube-12619982. This is for a 2017 5.3 Silverado

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How do the connectors fasten to a new hose?

joesan5 · January 28, 2018

How do the connectors fasten to a new hose?

They fit right in the hose then use supplied clamps from can

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martha3065 · January 28, 2018

]Does sea foam actually do anything to the DI engines?

Sea Foam spray is sprayed in the intake and is designed for GDI engines for removing deposits from the valves. I've never removed the intake and checked the valves before and after use to verify effectiveness, so I guess it's just faith on my part.

Elite Engineering · January 28, 2018

19 hours ago, bkesting said:

Spoke to my dealer this morning after having some service work done. Told me a catch can would absolutely void my powertrain warranty, as would any other modification. Even a lift kit would void warranty on any suspension issues.

I still plan on installing one, just guess will make sure to remove and return to stock before ever taking into a dealership

I thought we should address this before it gets out of hand:

If you install a vented breathered, or other type of Catch Can that in any way defeats, deletes, or reduces the OEM functions of the PCV system, yes, that is 100% grounds for a dealer to void your warranty as it can directly cause failure over time to the engine or components.

This link here to the FTC's guidelines covers all, but is a long read: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/federal_register_notices/2015/05/150522mag-mossfrn.pdf

This is a more automotive specific summary: https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011/01/ftc-validates-right-to-install-aftermarket-parts

In short, it is a violation of Federal Law to void your warranty for the installation of one of our systems as we maintain ALL emissions requirements and the installation and use of one of our systems when installed and used properly could in no way cause any damage or failure, just the opposite.

The FTC site also has forms and offered assistance to file a complaint if you are scammed by a dealer in regard to this as well as who to bring possible charges against them.

Our systems retain a 100% closed system. It in no way (unlike a breather or vented can) reduces any of the OEM functions and in fact converts to full time evacuation when using one of our dual valve versions as all GDI engines should. You also have to beware of Catch Cans that drain-back or return the damaging compounds back to the engine (far more than oil is trapped in a system, water, acids, raw fuel, and abrasive particulate matter mainly), as they are returning a concentrate of what the PCV system is designed to remove.

So, only one documented case in our history had a warranty claim denied, and those that followed the story and resolution know the dealer misdiagnosed a bad engine when it was a well know problem, a failed oil pump and the owner ended up fixing it himself.

Out of the tens of thousands of our systems in use today, that has been the ONLY case. If a dealer hassles you, there are Mag. Moss specialty law firms that can assist you very inexpensively, but usually just using the FTC is all you need.

Now, let’s go on to why you would want to use one of our systems. First, it is a choice, you made the investment in your vehicle and only you can make the decision on how to care for it, so here are some facts to consider:

As no fuel touches the intake valves on a GDI engine, the valves are subject to far higher operating temperatures and thus contaminates entering the intake air charge (oil, etc.) bake onto the backsides and rapidly form "coking" deposits. Unlike engines of the past, these deposits bake into a very hard and abrasive formation that is similar to sand in its abrasiveness, so as the particles shed, although most is expelled out the exhaust, some is forced between the piston and cylinder walls causing scouring over time. This damage leads to increased blow-by and oil consumption.

Then, we have to look at another factor. As these engines operate at higher compression ratios and the fuel is introduced directly into the combustion chamber at 2,000-3,000 PSI, many times the amount of raw fuel is pushed past the pings and washes oil from the cylinder walls. This fuel also dilutes the engine oil substantially reducing viscosity and the oils ability to protect properly. Our dual valve systems provide full time evacuation so these damaging compounds are flushed and evacuated (sucked out) as soon as they enter so most is removed before it has a chance to settle and accumulate in the crankcase and the engine oil.

Combine this with the abrasive particulate matter also entering the crankcase and never before has it been more important to your engines life to take steps to prevent the wear all GDI engines are subject to.

So, we have covered the intake valve coking (we prevent up to 85% of the coking to ever form in the first place). We have explained the fuel washdown and other contaminates and how we deal with them. Now we have the immediate benefits. And that is the reduction of detonation caused knock retard. Your engine as mentioned is a higher compression ratio than past Port Injection engines, so ANY amount of oil mist or other compounds present in the intake air charge contribute to detonation or pre-ignition. By removing these prior to having a chance to enter the intake air charge, you reduce detonation and knock retard and your engine will maintain optimum ignition timing advance making more power and getting better fuel economy.

One final aspect is ALL newer engines come with "low tension" piston rings. This is to help the automaker meet ever increasing CAFE fuel economy standards, just like the super thin oils the owner’s manual recommends (has nothing to do with what’s "best" for protecting your engine) and these rings rely on pressure above, and suction below to maintain stability and proper seal. When you allow pressure to build by NOT pulling proper crankcase suction at all times, the rings enter a state known as "Ring Flutter" when pressure is allowed to build. This is the rings vibrating rapidly under heavy loads and high RPM's compounding seal and blow-by issues, and over time wearing the leading edges of the rings as well as the ringlands and wearing divots or chatter marks into the cylinder walls (engine builders see this and know of this). So, there are so many benefits and zero negatives to implementing a system like our E2 or E2-X system.

So, we hope this answers your questions. Other tips for avoiding issues:

ONLY use a full synthetic oil and at least a 10w40 weight. We prefer Amsoil 5w50 Signature series. It deals very well with the raw fuel washdown, and as full synthetic leaves little to no residue when burned, it greatly reduces the rate of intake valve coking.

Top tier fuels. Although they touch nothing inside the engine unlike port injection engines of old, and nothing in the fuel system can benefit from them, they do help keep injectors clean and operating properly.

Oil change intervals. As GDI engines are subject to far more of the compounds that overwhelm the engine oils ability to protect, more frequent changes are definitely a good thing. Do NOT rely on that oil change message. We recommend every 5k miles.

Do NOT use a solvent based engine running upper induction cleaning!!! While safe on Port injection engines of the past, the abrasive nature of the deposits causes damage when these are loosened with the engine running and are not safe regardless of manufacturer claims. We tear into these motors on a regular basis and see the damage caused.

Questions? Ask. Contact our Technical Support team direct at: [email protected] Sales at: [email protected]

Does not matter if you own our products or not, we are committed to educating and assisting in every way possible as there is so much mis-information out there it is hard to know what is false, and what is accurate.

Cheers!

bkesting · January 28, 2018

41 minutes ago, Elite Engineering said:

I thought we should address this before it gets out of hand:

If you install a vented breathered, or other type of Catch Can that in any way defeats, deletes, or reduces the OEM functions of the PCV system, yes, that is 100% grounds for a dealer to void your warranty as it can directly cause failure over time to the engine or components.

This link here to the FTC's guidelines covers all, but is a long read: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/federal_register_notices/2015/05/150522mag-mossfrn.pdf

This is a more automotive specific summary: https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011/01/ftc-validates-right-to-install-aftermarket-parts

In short, it is a violation of Federal Law to void your warranty for the installation of one of our systems as we maintain ALL emissions requirements and the installation and use of one of our systems when installed and used properly could in no way cause any damage or failure, just the opposite.

The FTC site also has forms and offered assistance to file a complaint if you are scammed by a dealer in regard to this as well as who to bring possible charges against them.

Our systems retain a 100% closed system. It in no way (unlike a breather or vented can) reduces any of the OEM functions and in fact converts to full time evacuation when using one of our dual valve versions as all GDI engines should. You also have to beware of Catch Cans that drain-back or return the damaging compounds back to the engine (far more than oil is trapped in a system, water, acids, raw fuel, and abrasive particulate matter mainly), as they are returning a concentrate of what the PCV system is designed to remove.

So, only one documented case in our history had a warranty claim denied, and those that followed the story and resolution know the dealer misdiagnosed a bad engine when it was a well know problem, a failed oil pump and the owner ended up fixing it himself.

Out of the tens of thousands of our systems in use today, that has been the ONLY case. If a dealer hassles you, there are Mag. Moss specialty law firms that can assist you very inexpensively, but usually just using the FTC is all you need.

Now, let’s go on to why you would want to use one of our systems. First, it is a choice, you made the investment in your vehicle and only you can make the decision on how to care for it, so here are some facts to consider:

As no fuel touches the intake valves on a GDI engine, the valves are subject to far higher operating temperatures and thus contaminates entering the intake air charge (oil, etc.) bake onto the backsides and rapidly form "coking" deposits. Unlike engines of the past, these deposits bake into a very hard and abrasive formation that is similar to sand in its abrasiveness, so as the particles shed, although most is expelled out the exhaust, some is forced between the piston and cylinder walls causing scouring over time. This damage leads to increased blow-by and oil consumption.

Then, we have to look at another factor. As these engines operate at higher compression ratios and the fuel is introduced directly into the combustion chamber at 2,000-3,000 PSI, many times the amount of raw fuel is pushed past the pings and washes oil from the cylinder walls. This fuel also dilutes the engine oil substantially reducing viscosity and the oils ability to protect properly. Our dual valve systems provide full time evacuation so these damaging compounds are flushed and evacuated (sucked out) as soon as they enter so most is removed before it has a chance to settle and accumulate in the crankcase and the engine oil.

Combine this with the abrasive particulate matter also entering the crankcase and never before has it been more important to your engines life to take steps to prevent the wear all GDI engines are subject to.

So, we have covered the intake valve coking (we prevent up to 85% of the coking to ever form in the first place). We have explained the fuel washdown and other contaminates and how we deal with them. Now we have the immediate benefits. And that is the reduction of detonation caused knock retard. Your engine as mentioned is a higher compression ratio than past Port Injection engines, so ANY amount of oil mist or other compounds present in the intake air charge contribute to detonation or pre-ignition. By removing these prior to having a chance to enter the intake air charge, you reduce detonation and knock retard and your engine will maintain optimum ignition timing advance making more power and getting better fuel economy.

One final aspect is ALL newer engines come with "low tension" piston rings. This is to help the automaker meet ever increasing CAFE fuel economy standards, just like the super thin oils the owner’s manual recommends (has nothing to do with what’s "best" for protecting your engine) and these rings rely on pressure above, and suction below to maintain stability and proper seal. When you allow pressure to build by NOT pulling proper crankcase suction at all times, the rings enter a state known as "Ring Flutter" when pressure is allowed to build. This is the rings vibrating rapidly under heavy loads and high RPM's compounding seal and blow-by issues, and over time wearing the leading edges of the rings as well as the ringlands and wearing divots or chatter marks into the cylinder walls (engine builders see this and know of this). So, there are so many benefits and zero negatives to implementing a system like our E2 or E2-X system.

So, we hope this answers your questions. Other tips for avoiding issues:

ONLY use a full synthetic oil and at least a 10w40 weight. We prefer Amsoil 5w50 Signature series. It deals very well with the raw fuel washdown, and as full synthetic leaves little to no residue when burned, it greatly reduces the rate of intake valve coking.

Top tier fuels. Although they touch nothing inside the engine unlike port injection engines of old, and nothing in the fuel system can benefit from them, they do help keep injectors clean and operating properly.

Oil change intervals. As GDI engines are subject to far more of the compounds that overwhelm the engine oils ability to protect, more frequent changes are definitely a good thing. Do NOT rely on that oil change message. We recommend every 5k miles.

Do NOT use a solvent based engine running upper induction cleaning!!! While safe on Port injection engines of the past, the abrasive nature of the deposits causes damage when these are loosened with the engine running and are not safe regardless of manufacturer claims. We tear into these motors on a regular basis and see the damage caused.

Questions? Ask. Contact our Technical Support team direct at: [email protected] Sales at: [email protected]

Does not matter if you own our products or not, we are committed to educating and assisting in every way possible as there is so much mis-information out there it is hard to know what is false, and what is accurate.

Cheers!

Great info here. As far as oil.....my truck now calls for 0w20, that okay in your opinion? Secondly, I'm new to this so excuse my ignorance, "Do NOT use a solvent based engine running upper induction cleaning!!!" would refer to what service/product?

bkesting · January 29, 2018

On 1/25/2018 at 11:17 PM, Josh154 said:

There’s also the e2x ultra that I have on mine. It’s even larger than the regular x and e2. I love mine!

Looking at this setup, is it hard to reach and use the oil dipstick?

Ozer · February 16, 2018

In 3mo\3k miles of fall and winter driving it captured this much. Not too bad. It's definitely working for me. I have it on the booster, no issues.

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Elite Engineering · February 17, 2018

20 hours ago, Ozer said:

In 3mo\3k miles of fall and winter driving it captured this much. Not too bad. It's definitely working for me. I have it on the booster, no issues.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Yep, better in the Catch Can than in your intake!

bkesting · February 21, 2018

Emptied my @Elite Engineering E2-X can for the first time tonight. This is a 10 oz. juice bottle after about 600 mi of driving.

Grumpy Bear · February 21, 2018

This is not unique to GDI. Have seen worse pulled off carburetor equipped school buss motors in the 60's/70's. I've seen this in pre PCV motors of the 50's. Umbrella valve seals. What I've seen once or twice in my life is it getting so bad as to inhibit reasonable performance. EGR deposits will do the same thing and you can't catch them in a can.

Elite Engineering · April 2, 2018

On 4/6/2016 at 7:12 AM, seninitas said:

Well that would be awesome considering this is a 2016 with only 9k miles on it

No, that looks completely normal.

A good Catch Can system (very few on the market) catches far more than oil. In fact, oil is a very small percentage of what is caught. Without going into real deep analysis, here is the average makeup of what is trapped in the E2-X after a 2450 miles trip and drain when spun in a centrifuge and then analyzed. 70% of the contents are acidic water (water and sulfuric acid are both produced /released during the combustion process and need to be removed/evacuated from the crankcase before settling and contaminating the oil), 23% was unburnt fuel (raw fuel reduces viscosity and the oils ability to protect). and 7% was oil filled with abrasive particulate matter (carbon, soot, ash, etc.) so as very little true accurate information is available on any of this, oil is what most assume is being caught, so the decreased wear extends engine life. The removal of oil mist reduces detonation and allows less carbon build-up and for the engine to run more timing advance and make more power, etc.

tanner709 · April 3, 2018

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 12:13 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

This is not unique to GDI. Have seen worse pulled off carburetor equipped school buss motors in the 60's/70's. I've seen this in pre PCV motors of the 50's. Umbrella valve seals. What I've seen once or twice in my life is it getting so bad as to inhibit reasonable performance. EGR deposits will do the same thing and you can't catch them in a can.

Makes sense. The fuel injection acts as a cleaner of the ports, and valves.

Carburetor = poor atomization at times. Whereas the high pressure injection does triple duty; high pressure, atomization, and the fuel delivery(solvent) to remedy this problem area.

Mike GMC · April 15, 2018

Just finished installing my new E2-X. Seems I be well made and included almost everything I wanted in the kit. The only thing not included was clamped for the valve cover ports. They may not be necessary, but I added them anyway. I also chose to mount the can on the radiator support as shown in the current install video. A hold for this is not included, but I found a suitable bolt, nut and lock washer laying around in the garage. Since this is the location now recommended in the video, it would be nice if this hardware was included.

I've run a catch can on a previous vehicle, so I know they work. I found the throttle body, intake tube and manifold to be very clean and dry during install which was a very welcome discovery. On my last vehicle, all of these pieces were covered in an oil film when I installed the catch can. In fact, the intake tube had a puddle of oil in it. That one had about 40k miles on it when it did the can. This one has 32k, so it appears to be in better shape than the last one was and actually in very good shape. Hopefully the can will help keep it that way.

Elite Engineering · April 16, 2018

3 hours ago, Mike GMC said:

Just finished installing my new E2-X. Seems I be well made and included almost everything I wanted in the kit. The only thing not included was clamped for the valve cover ports. They may not be necessary, but I added them anyway. I also chose to mount the can on the radiator support as shown in the current install video. A hold for this is not included, but I found a suitable bolt, nut and lock washer laying around in the garage. Since this is the location now recommended in the video, it would be nice if this hardware was included.

I've run a catch can on a previous vehicle, so I know they work. I found the throttle body, intake tube and manifold to be very clean and dry during install which was a very welcome discovery. On my last vehicle, all of these pieces were covered in an oil film when I installed the catch can. In fact, the intake tube had a puddle of oil in it. That one had about 40k miles on it when it did the can. This one has 32k, so it appears to be in better shape than the last one was and actually in very good shape. Hopefully the can will help keep it that way.

Great, let us know if you have any questions or comments.

And thank you!