E85???

[Silverado LT]

On 12/5/2018 at 8:27 PM, TJay74 said:

 

 

You only need E50 to see about 80% of the HP gain from running Ethanol. The timing modifier tables in the ECM are E-40/60/80. You dont even see the maxing timing adder until you are over E80.

Here is what the tables in the HP Tuners looks like for the E92A PCM for a 2018 Silverado LV3. The table allows modifications to be made at E-10/E-20/E-50/E-80. I believe adjustments to the spark multiplier are blended in a linear fashion between the points in the table. Meaning you should see similar gains @ E49 as you would @ E51.  

 

E50 is excellent power/mpg/value blend for any Flex Fuel vehicle.  

 

Good discussion.

[Paintor]

Mine is non Flex Fuel and loves E-50 with the Hypertech MaxEnergy 2.0 Premium Fuel setting.

 

I go above E-50 and lean codes on drivers side bank get thrown.

 

I have to mix Ethanol with gasoline 50-50.

 

11-1 Compression engines were not made for gasoline.

[Jacoby]

10 hours ago, Paintor said:

Mine is non Flex Fuel and loves E-50 with the Hypertech MaxEnergy 2.0 Premium Fuel setting.

 

I go above E-50 and lean codes on drivers side bank get thrown.

 

I have to mix Ethanol with gasoline 50-50.

 

11-1 Compression engines were not made for gasoline.

You’re not benefiting from running E at all

[Grumpy Bear]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 8:07 AM, Gunslinger354 said:

I see E-85 mentioned in a ton of these forums, is there a advantage to you guys running e85?

My truck is capable of running E-85. I never have. I need to see a 30% spread in price to break even for the loss of mileage because that is what 85% ethanol would deliver. A 30% reduction in mileage. I have never seen that spread where I live. That's Illinois.

 

Iowa has better pricing and less stupid when in comes to fuels. Cliff (Cow Pie) runs it cheaper than we run straight gasoline. Point being, unless you have a PERFORMANCE requirement (dyno number, track) it makes little sense unless you can get the spread in pricing.  IMHO of course. 

[CamGTP]

Thank goodness it takes me like 3 weeks to burn through a tank of fuel.

 

$2.03 for E85 which is really like E60 right now or $2.80 for 89 octane. Even with 9-10mpg avg, it takes me a while lol.

[KARNUT]

I ran it in my 14. It felt peppier. At the time it was about 1$ cheaper than reg gas. At the same time tuners, black bear included stated mid grade fuel was preferable than reg gas due to KR. That makes the price spread better for people who don’t care as much for the performance gains. I still ran regular on trips due to availability, in town E-85.


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[Grumpy Bear]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 3:53 AM, Paintor said:

11-1 Compression engines were not made for gasoline.

That's an odd thing to say for a fellow so well read. Cylinder pressure and end gas composition determine Motor Octane requirement. Close the inlet valve late enough and you won't have enough cranking compression to even start the motor at 11:1 compression.  VVT/VVL and vastly improved combustion chamber shapes of street motors have made 10:1 and over quite tunable. Todays power to displacement ratios would make a GM MK IV and Ford FE's whimper.

 

L78 396 11:1                                            1957 Edsel 361 FE 10.5

L72, L89 427 11:1                                    1964 - 69 Ford 390 FE HP all between 10.5 and 11:1

L88, ZK1, ZLX 427 12.5:1                       1964-66 Ford 406/427 10.9 - 12:1

                                                                     1966- 70 Ford 428 10.8 340 hp. and up 10.5

 

Even a lowly Honda HX of the late 90's 4 makes over a horse a cube naturally asperated and gets 40+ mpg.

 

We just traded lead and motor octane for technology and a better understanding of combustion chemistry.

 

 

[Silverado LT]

From what I'm seeing in the tune, any flex fuel ecotec3 could benefit by running a minimum of 20% ethanol blend. If the GM engineers thought it was enough to start advancing the Spark Table at that leve, it has to be worth it. 

 

I don't drive my truck daily so I wouldn't be able to test my theory.  But I'm fairly certain that there would be very little to no noticable mpg loss but slightly more available power by running a 20-25% ethanol blend vs standard 87 octane E10. 

 

I will most certainly will be adding 3 or 4 gallons of E85 to every tank from here on out.

[Jacoby]

1 hour ago, Silverado Custom said:

From what I'm seeing in the tune, any flex fuel ecotec3 could benefit by running a minimum of 20% ethanol blend. If the GM engineers thought it was enough to start advancing the Spark Table at that leve, it has to be worth it. 

 

I don't drive my truck daily so I wouldn't be able to test my theory.  But I'm fairly certain that there would be very little to no noticable mpg loss but slightly more available power by running a 20-25% ethanol blend vs standard 87 octane E10. 

 

I will most certainly will be adding 3 or 4 gallons of E85 to every tank from here on out.

Do you have a flex fuel truck?  I’m guessing u do. Why run such a small percentage?  Why not just fill up with E

Edited May 13, 2019 by Jacoby

[Black02Silverado]

21 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

My truck is capable of running E-85. I never have. I need to see a 30% spread in price to break even for the loss of mileage because that is what 85% ethanol would deliver. A 30% reduction in mileage. I have never seen that spread where I live. That's Illinois.

 

Iowa has better pricing and less stupid when in comes to fuels. Cliff (Cow Pie) runs it cheaper than we run straight gasoline. Point being, unless you have a PERFORMANCE requirement (dyno number, track) it makes little sense unless you can get the spread in pricing.  IMHO of course. 

My main reason for running E85 is for the cleaner burn which keeps the combustion chamber clean, not to mention the tail pipe.  I don't have a Flex Fuel vehicle but still run E85 when I can.  Only one station has it 20 miles from me but we go to that town often.  I do feel there is smoother throttle response along with power although I can't really say I get any since vehicles are all stock. Also running E85 shows better results on my UOA's and Dyson Analysis suggests running it.

[Silverado LT]

21 minutes ago, Jacoby said:

Do you have a flex fuel truck?  I’m guessing u do. Why run such a small percentage?  Why not just fill up with E

I do have a flex fuel truck. The reason I don't always run it is because of the price difference isn't enough for the loss of fuel economy. Also, I'm state tax exempt at certain stations which don't sell E85. In WI, that's 30 cents per gallon. So it makes it even more difficult to break even on a cost per mile basis.

 

We all know that E85 makes more hp and torque than E10. On the factory tune, I would be willing to bet that an E20 blend of 87 octane and E85 would make more power than Premium. 

 

I don't run it in my truck but my local stations switched to ethanol free premium fuel. Great for small engines and boats but counter productive for today's modern engines.

 

[Paintor]

15 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

That's an odd thing to say for a fellow so well read. 

 

 

 

Ethanol. Its now in all gasoline and you will see its percentage increased, this year. June 1st is an important date for you to remember.

 

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/03/20/e15-ethanol-is-coming-like-it-or-not

 

11-1 Compression and VVT were not pushed into consumer cars for crude oil derived fuel. Age of Crude Oil is coming to a close.

 

 

[swathdiver]

12 hours ago, Silverado Custom said:

From what I'm seeing in the tune, any flex fuel ecotec3 could benefit by running a minimum of 20% ethanol blend. If the GM engineers thought it was enough to start advancing the Spark Table at that leve, it has to be worth it. 

This!!!  ^^^^^

 

I've run twenty consecutive tanks of E30 and it definitely delivers better gas mileage than 93 octane gasoline in my old Gen IV LS motor.  18-22% alcohol content is the sweet spot.  Yeah, the local station has a hard time blending to E30 but such is to my benefit, truck runs better on it and E30 is less expensive than 87 octane gasoline.  Average cost to run 93 is twenty four cents a mile.  Straight E85 is twenty cents a mile and E30 is sixteen cents a mile.  That my friends is a $24 difference to drive 300 miles!

 

Octane rating calculates to about 92.  I will eventually mix my own tank with 93 instead of 87 which should deliver 96 octane at around 20% alcohol content and see how that performs power and mileage wise.  Engine is BlackBear tuned but alcohol tables are stock.  

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, swathdiver said:

This!!!  ^^^^^

 

I've run twenty consecutive tanks of E30 and it definitely delivers better gas mileage than 93 octane gasoline in my old Gen IV LS motor.  18-22% alcohol content is the sweet spot.  Yeah, the local station has a hard time blending to E30 but such is to my benefit, truck runs better on it and E30 is less expensive than 87 octane gasoline.  Average cost to run 93 is twenty four cents a mile.  Straight E85 is twenty cents a mile and E30 is sixteen cents a mile.  That my friends is a $24 difference to drive 300 miles!

 

Octane rating calculates to about 92.  I will eventually mix my own tank with 93 instead of 87 which should deliver 96 octane at around 20% alcohol content and see how that performs power and mileage wise.  Engine is BlackBear tuned but alcohol tables are stock.  

I forget swathdriver. Is you truck designated flex fuel capable? 

[swathdiver]

12 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I forget swathdriver. Is you truck designated flex fuel capable? 

Yessir, it has an 5.3 LC9.