First oil change mileage

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, Snoringbear said:

I’m a retired manufacturing manger.  I introduced into my operation a similar program pioneered by Toyota over twenty years ago.   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_productive_maintenance  this along with SPC (statistical process control) has exponentially improved quality across virtually all product spectrums.  Superior quality hand built by little elves in the Bavarian mountains is a myth ?... 

That's funny. I was part of a six sigma research team and the only improvements I saw from it were opening specs to the point that the sixth sigma failures were now inclusive. (Use to be third, remember?) 

 

There is also the case where the product is cheapened to the point of failure then a round of marketing hype stating, 'you couldn't afford it otherwise' followed by cheapen it until it fails....rinse and repeat. Have friends at BMW whose job it is to run this until the last cent is wrung out of a product. Had friends at Zenith with the same job...ops...they are out of business. That worked well. To soon?

 

Wife buy shoes machine made of 'real leather' that are thrice the cost of my 30 year old dress Wingtips and goes through them like water and mine are 30+ years still going. They wouldn't know real leather if the bull bit them on the butt. 

 

Smoke' n Crack again? The elves is myth, yes; but superior quality from a Master Craftsman's hands vs CAD/CAM...absolutely true. CNC is faster but less repeatable and less precise. Your entering my world now. 

3 hours ago, Daverado said:

 

It's been observed that maintaining vehicles more than necessary decreases reliability.  

 

My BS meter just pegged and I waisted my Engineering education. Maybe someone else will drink that Kool-Aid. I've never heard such a load of crap in my life. Changing my oil wears out my motor?  

 

Site the SAE tech paper file number that shows changing to often will kill my motor. PROOF Required!

Edited January 28, 2019 by Grumpy Bear

[Daverado]

24 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 My BS meter just pegged and I waisted my Engineering education. Maybe someone else will drink that Kool-Aid. I've never heard such a load of crap in my life. Changing my oil wears out my motor?  

You keep arguing your credentials loudly and demand respect for your experience but then you post something like this that questions your reading comprehension and yeah it makes it look like your education was "wasted".

 

"Negatively impacting reliability" and "wearing out" are not the same thing.

 

Maintenance introduces risk.  It's been studied.  Statistics support the conclusion that more maintenance than absolutely necessary is correlated with higher failure rate.

The link I provided includes references, did you bother to look?  Doesn't seem like it, so why would I provide yet another link you won't bother to read?

 

It's very straightforward really.  Humans aren't perfect and make mistakes.  So the less humans mess with the machines unnecessarily, the more reliable the machines are.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Daverado

[Grumpy Bear]

3 minutes ago, Daverado said:

You keep arguing your credentials loudly and demand respect for your experience but then you post something like this that questions your reading comprehension and yeah it makes it look like your education was "wasted".

 

"Negatively impacting reliability" and "wearing out" are not the same thing.

 

Maintenance introduces risk.  It's been studied.  Statistics support the conclusion that more maintenance than absolutely necessary is correlated with higher failure rate.

The link I provided includes references, did you bother to look?  Doesn't seem like it, so why would I provide yet another link you won't bother to read?

 

It's very straightforward really.  Humans aren't perfect and make mistakes.  So the less humans mess with the machines unnecessarily, the more reliable the machines are.

Would have, could have, should have and a dime and still no coffee. More BS. I know full well what you were IMPLYING. I didn't miss a thing. My mother use to lie like that...no cherry sport. My lord I might leave the drain plug out? Really? That's your argument? 

[Daverado]

1 minute ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Would have, could have, should have and a dime and still no coffee. More BS. I know full well what you were IMPLYING. I didn't miss a thing. My mother use to lie like that...no cherry sport. My lord I might leave the drain plug out? Really? That's your argument? 

 

No, my argument is that you're perfect and no-one else is, so any advice you have based on your own experience is really irrelevant.

 

 

[TXGREEK]

More of the same, stop arguing with people all the time, geez.


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[KARNUT]

Someone needs to notify txcreek, someone hijacked his sig.


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[TXGREEK]

God, I’m hoping the fryer oil isn’t going to be switched later and later, seems like squeezing every penny out of every dollar is where most people’s mind goes to. To actually argue with one another about oil intervals, who gives a crap. I change every 3-4k. To each their own.

 

Btw, I’d rather buy a used truck from a guy that changed oil to early than to late.

 

Sent from above

 

[Grumpy Bear]

8 minutes ago, Daverado said:

 

No, my argument is that you're perfect and no-one else is, so any advice you have based on your own experience is really irrelevant.

 

 

You set a pretty low bar. Perfection is thus easy. Are we playing Limbo? You can't argue the facts so you attack the person.  Didn't see that coming.

 

What exactly do you hope the outcome will be? Convert the world to some number of your choosing? With illusions and tricky speech?  To 'school me'?  

 

All I asked you for was the SAE ID catalog number. I'll accept a published post PHD work from a major University. See I'm flexible. Take a breath and argue the FACTS. So far your tossing crap at a wall to see what sticks. Toyota is a manufacture with it's own agenda that isn't purely academic. Pardon me if I remain skeptical of such sources. They tend to watch their own hen house. 

 

TXGREEK my friend it's a forum...relax and get some . It isn't all that....( I change at 5K) 

[Daverado]

33 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Would have, could have, should have and a dime and still no coffee. More BS. I know full well what you were IMPLYING. I didn't miss a thing. My mother use to lie like that...no cherry sport. My lord I might leave the drain plug out? Really? That's your argument? 

 

1 minute ago, Grumpy Bear said:

You can't argue the facts so you attack the person.  Didn't see that coming.

 

[KARNUT]

I think 5,000 mile oil change is a reasonable number. My trucks after warranty I would go extended. I drove lots of miles daily. If I changed often I would be changing every week to every other week. Working out of town sometimes for 10 days oil changing was the last thing on my mind. My wife’s car is our in town car and falls under severe service per the manufacturer. It’s every 3400 miles. To keep warranty we followed that. My trip car Camry. More miles driving at a time, extended per manufacturer. My other vehicles don’t see 5K miles a year, once a year oil changes. One size doesn’t fit all. Time, temperature, miles driving and start up per miles all comes into play.


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[eppieguy]

Ok, I just wanted to let everyone know that I wasted 8.5 quarts of oil tonight in my 19 HC 6.2. I’m very sorry to have wasted all that oil and I’m sure there’s going to be some sort of fine that I’ll have to pay but I’m ok with that. 

 

Anyway, in all out seriousness I am shocked at how dirty the oil looked when I drained it, to my eyes it looked as if the oils had been in way too long, it was nasty dark dark brown, not what I was expecting at 1500 miles. Based on how it looked I may change it again in another 1500 miles just to see what it looks like, why not waste some more! 

 

And as a FYI after putting 8 quarts in it the oil barely showed up on the very tip of the dipstick, I ran it and then let it sit to settle, still the same, I put another half quart in it and it’s half way up the hash marks on the dipstick, I’ll drive it tomorrow and check it again but based on the dipstick it seems to require 9 quarts.

[TXGREEK]

Ok, I just wanted to let everyone know that I wasted 8.5 quarts of oil tonight in my 19 HC 6.2. I’m very sorry to have wasted all that oil and I’m sure there’s going to be some sort of fine that I’ll have to pay but I’m ok with that. 

 

Anyway, in all out seriousness I am shocked at how dirty the oil looked when I drained it, to my eyes it looked as if the oils had been in way too long, it was nasty dark dark brown, not what I was expecting at 1500 miles. Based on how it looked I may change it again in another 1500 miles just to see what it looks like, why not waste some more! 

 

And as a FYI after putting 8 quarts in it the oil barely showed up on the very tip of the dipstick, I ran it and then let it sit to settle, still the same, I put another half quart in it and it’s half way up the hash marks on the dipstick, I’ll drive it tomorrow and check it again but based on the dipstick it seems to require 9 quarts.

 

That’s great on your oil changes especially as the motor is breaking in you’re doing good. I waste money and oil too, guess we’re that click everyone points at and wishes they were more like rather than joining lol. Just having some fun. In all seriousness, I did the same just for that very reason and followed through with many more. Btw, congrats on your 19 HC, maybe your oil capacity is slightly larger like they used to be, check your book

 

 

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[Grumpy Bear]

4 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I think 5,000 mile oil change is a reasonable number. My trucks after warranty I would go extended. I drove lots of miles daily. If I changed often I would be changing every week to every other week. Working out of town sometimes for 10 days oil changing was the last thing on my mind. My wife’s car is our in town car and falls under severe service per the manufacturer. It’s every 3400 miles. To keep warranty we followed that. My trip car Camry. More miles driving at a time, extended per manufacturer. My other vehicles don’t see 5K miles a year, once a year oil changes. One size doesn’t fit all. Time, temperature, miles driving and start up per miles all comes into play

Rational thought, what a nice concept.

 

Stan, aren't you concerned that you may leave the fill plug out? Not get the filter tight or use, oh I don't know...ATF or gear oil in the motor due to the frequency of service?

 

KIDDING!! 

 

True story. I worked with this guy in Texas (Yes, El Paso is part of Texas, not Mexico) who bought a brand new 1972 Monte Carlo with a 350 and TH400. It's like 1989 and a nice spring day. No one is in a hurry to leave the parking lot so we're scoping out each others rides. This fella opens the hood on this heap and right away I notice is has the really short GM break in filter on it so I asked him where he got one. 

 

"Oh, that's the original", he deadpans. YIKES!!

 

"You know your suppose to change the filter with the oil, right!" I laugh. 

 

"I will if I ever get around to changing oil" he quips. Car has 285,000 miles on it. "Has used a quart in 500 or so since new so it never really gets dirty". Used bulk recycle oil from day one for make up. Stuff dark when it goes in.  It looked to me that it leaked more than it ever burned and it never smoked. Trans fluid had never been serviced nor the differential. He was still driving it a year later when I left the area. What do ya do with a story like that? 

 

 

[TXGREEK]

Rational thought, what a nice concept.
 
Stan, aren't you concerned that you may leave the fill plug out? Not get the filter tight or use, oh I don't know...ATF or gear oil in the motor due to the frequency of service?
 
KIDDING!! 
 
True story. I worked with this guy in Texas (Yes, El Paso is part of Texas, not Mexico) who bought a brand new 1972 Monte Carlo with a 350 and TH400. It's like 1989 and a nice spring day. No one is in a hurry to leave the parking lot so we're scoping out each others rides. This fella opens the hood on this heap and right away I notice is has the really short GM break in filter on it so I asked him where he got one. 
 
"Oh, that's the original", he deadpans. YIKES!!
 
"You know your suppose to change the filter with the oil, right!" I laugh. 
 
"I will if I ever get around to changing oil" he quips. Car has 285,000 miles on it. "Has used a quart in 500 or so since new so it never really gets dirty". Used bulk recycle oil from day one for make up. Stuff dark when it goes in.  It looked to me that it leaked more than it ever burned and it never smoked. Trans fluid had never been serviced nor the differential. He was still driving it a year later when I left the area. What do ya do with a story like that? 
 
 

Ummm, they don’t build them like that anymore, Not since 1972.


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[Grumpy Bear]

Daverado. 

 

I take no issue with an opinion framed as an opinion from anyone. I take issue with people that like to treat opinion as a fact. Any one, it isn't personal. Don't make it so. To that: 

 

Personal attack...let see. I called BS on THE information and it's source and gave you a chance to dignify your claim by providing ALTERNATE VERIFIABLE proof of your claims.

 

Not quite the same thing as calling you or your life, your education worthless is it? That was you lowering that bar.

 

And yet did I retaliate? Or offer again to accept proofs and even tell you which ones were in play? And now this...hum. I repeat: 

 

SAE ID NUMBER PLEASE.

A reference from a physics book. Something tangible, believable and verifiable, repeatable. 

Corner stone of Science is repeatability. 

Opinion is not. Survey is not. Observations are not. Consumer Reviews are not.

You have it or you don't. 

Which is it?