Sierra/Silverado vs. RAM 1500

Wmoor004 · July 26, 2019

50 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

I looked up cars.com and picked the E350 and the Silverado with LTZ trim (luxury). As new cars, the base Benz E350 was $10,000 higher than the base Silverado LTZ. I selected 2015 models only and this is what I see... do you notice how dismal the resale value is on the Benz? I sorted it by price and picked low-mileage vehicles, no more than 50k miles.

$21,294 - 2015 Mercedes-Benz E 350 - 47,657 mi.
$24,998 - 2015 Mercedes-Benz E 350 - 28,993 mi.
$24,998 - 2015 Mercedes-Benz E 350 - 39,623 mi.
$25,000 - 2015 Mercedes-Benz E 350 - 45,170 mi.
$28,825 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 48,966 mi.
$31,881 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 45,495 mi.
$31,998 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 47,726 mi.
$32,598 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 39,954 mi.
$33,995 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 32,067 mi.
$34,324 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 34,972 mi.
$37,911 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 29,680 mi.
$37,995 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 32,628 mi.
$37,998 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 26,465 mi.

When I buy cars, I consider the reliability and the resale value. That was the very reason why I didn't buy the Ram, it was consistently $8,000 to $10,000 less as used compared to similarly equipped Silverado and F-150. That was why I didn't bite when Dodge dangled a $16,000 incentive.

When I bought the Benz, I thought it was an investment. Whoo, I was way off by a wide margin, bad gas mileage, expensive repairs, and cramped interior. Once I bought a pick-up and used it as a daily driver, I could never go back.

I don't want the car to strand me. I've gotten stranded by the Audi and the Benz, but never by the Ford and Chevrolet. Sure as hell am not taking my chances with the Dodge. It's not the maintenance I am worried about, it's the unexpected bills. $4,000 on my Audi right past the damn 50k warranty! And it stranded me in the desert and I had to get the damn thing towed to the nearest Audi dealership which was 43 miles away

Sorry to hear that... Being stranded. I have never been stranded and I have owned a Benz since the 90s. You are aware that there are different trims for the E350? At any rate, I am glad you have a reliable Ford/Chevy. My Sierra will be my daily - I love the E53, CLS, and S class Benz. I am excited about purchasing my first truck. ?? (I have noticed that a lot of people on this forum have the worst luck on any vehicle other than Chevy/GM).

Edited July 26, 2019 by Wmoor004

Wiggums · July 26, 2019

10 minutes ago, Wmoor004 said:

Sorry to hear that... Being stranded. I have never been stranded and I have owned a Benz since the 90s. You are aware that there are different trims for the E350? At any rate, I am glad you have a reliable Ford/Chevy. My Sierra will be my daily - I love the E53, CLS, and S class Benz. I am excited about purchasing my first truck. ?? (I have noticed that a lot of people on this forum have the worst luck on any vehicle other than Chevy/GM).

For the record, my Ford F-150 was more reliable. The worst? Audi. Second worst? Benz. And I've owned a lot of cars, I buy new cars every 2 or 3 years.

On my many trips to Germany, I've driven numerous top-end cars, Benz ML230CDI, Benz S430, VW Phaeton V-10 TDI, Audi A8 4.2 V8, BMW 740d, etc. Twice, it was a Benz that stranded me in Germany, S400CDI (about ten years ago) when transmission went out (after going BOOM when I shifted it to "D" and car didn't move) and E280CDI (way back in 1997 or so) when engine shuddered and check engine light went on. The S400CDI was the crappy one introduced around 2000, the swoopy one that nobody likes. Interior had plastic everywhere and I'd expect a lot more from a car of this caliber.

The S320CDI I rented in 1998 was probably the best car I've driven, built like a tank and extremely solid. Benz has gone downhill since then.

After Benz came to its senses and dumped Dodge, it has gotten quite a bit better and the evidence of corner-cutting (we can thank Iacocca for that) seems to have diminished somewhat.

To be honest, I have not driven or bought a Benz since my bad experience in 2011. I don't know if they've really gotten better, but I could not justify the premium since the cheaper pick-up trucks hold up value much better. My 2012 F-150, bought new $10k off MSRP, dropped only 19% after four years of ownership when I traded it in for another F-150 in 2016. The dealership even sold it for more than the price I paid in 2012. My C300, on the other hand, lost around 65% but I didn't get any off MSRP when I bought it new in 2008.

econometrics · July 26, 2019

2 hours ago, Wiggums said:

I looked up cars.com and picked the E350 and the Silverado with LTZ trim (luxury). As new cars, the base Benz E350 was $10,000 higher than the base Silverado LTZ. I selected 2015 models only and this is what I see... do you notice how dismal the resale value is on the Benz? I sorted it by price and picked low-mileage vehicles, no more than 50k miles.

$21,294 - 2015 Mercedes-Benz E 350 - 47,657 mi.
$24,998 - 2015 Mercedes-Benz E 350 - 28,993 mi.
$24,998 - 2015 Mercedes-Benz E 350 - 39,623 mi.
$25,000 - 2015 Mercedes-Benz E 350 - 45,170 mi.
$28,825 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 48,966 mi.
$31,881 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 45,495 mi.
$31,998 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 47,726 mi.
$32,598 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 39,954 mi.
$33,995 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 32,067 mi.
$34,324 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 34,972 mi.
$37,911 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 29,680 mi.
$37,995 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 32,628 mi.
$37,998 - 2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ - 26,465 mi.

When I buy cars, I consider the reliability and the resale value. That was the very reason why I didn't buy the Ram, it was consistently $8,000 to $10,000 less as used compared to similarly equipped Silverado and F-150. That was why I didn't bite when Dodge dangled a $16,000 incentive.

When I bought the Benz, I thought it was an investment. Whoo, I was way off by a wide margin, bad gas mileage, expensive repairs, and cramped interior. Once I bought a pick-up and used it as a daily driver, I could never go back.

I don't want the car to strand me. I've gotten stranded by the Audi and the Benz, but never by the Ford and Chevrolet. Sure as hell am not taking my chances with the Dodge. It's not the maintenance I am worried about, it's the unexpected bills. $4,000 on my Audi right past the damn 50k warranty! And it stranded me in the desert and I had to get the damn thing towed to the nearest Audi dealership which was 43 miles away

My wife had a 2007 Acura MDX that we bought in 2010 with 30K on it for $33K. We sold it last year with 127K on it for $6000. It was a good car, but wow, what a hit!

I bought my 2007 TX Edition 1500 CC for $20K in 2009. Got $9500 for it on trade for my 2019 RST with 125K miles on it. Pretty darn good. I didn’t put over $500 in that truck outside of very basic, routine maintenance, either.

Cpl_Punishment · August 1, 2019

On 7/25/2019 at 7:13 PM, ickyoldman said:

Silverado is outdated cheap crap........My 2004 was much better than my 2016 2500........I honestly don't think there's a good truck out there right now. Ford is crap.....Dodge is good looking crap....When Turdota gets it shit together, if ever, I think they will have a winner. No-one is really putting any effort into trucks right now. It's all about cost cutting and it shows. Bad time to buy a truck. If you have a nice, older truck, I would hold on to it until a better effort is proffered.

So what are those of us who don't have a truck but need one supposed to do?

ickyoldman · August 2, 2019

On 7/31/2019 at 11:25 PM, Cpl_Punishment said:

So what are those of us who don't have a truck but need one supposed to do?

Pick your poison on one of the new marques.......Find a nice dry country used, older one.........I don't think waiting for something better to come around is going to yield any positive results, soooo.........If you buy new I personally would not expect to hold onto it for very long as the undercarriage begins to rust to death in a very short time. Regionally dependent, to some extent. As much as I hate to say it, imported trucks fare much better in terms of undercarriage rust.

OnTheReel · August 2, 2019

Well, GM has used the wax coated frames for like 20 years now. Importing an older one from the south makes no sense to me. Any rust problems that the new trucks may have in a few years (if not touched up/ maintained), the old ones will have had in spades, on top of all the other stuff that fails with age and mileage.

Not sure where “the old ones were bullet proof” theory comes from anyway. All of the GMT400s and 800s have rusted off the road around here, along with the equivalent Fords, Toyotas and Dodges. Frames were no better, and the brake and fuel line corrosion protection was literally non-existent. My late 90s Rams rusted like no other in spite of constant washing and upkeep. Real fun losing brake lines on those, especially 50 miles from home.

KARNUT · August 2, 2019

I’d drive my 92 anywhere, everything works. My fathers 98 Ram looks like the one on that flatbed. I’d drive it anywhere.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HondaHawkGT · August 3, 2019

6 hours ago, ickyoldman said:

Pick your poison on one of the new marques.......Find a nice dry country used, older one.........I don't think waiting for something better to come around is going to yield any positive results, soooo.........If you buy new I personally would not expect to hold onto it for very long as the undercarriage begins to rust to death in a very short time. Regionally dependent, to some extent. As much as I hate to say it, imported trucks fare much better in terms of undercarriage rust.

LOL

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-settlement-idUSKBN1370PE

"The proposed settlement covers about 1.5 million Tacoma compact pickups, Tundra full-size pickups and Sequoia SUVs alleged to have received inadequate rust protection that could lead to corrosion serious enough to jeopardize their structural integrity, according to court papers."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jensen/2018/12/18/new-class-action-claims-more-toyota-trucks-have-dangerous-rusty-frames/

"The allegation in the new class-action contends the frames “are prone to excessive, premature rust corrosion because the frames were not properly prepared and treated against rust corrosion when they were manufactured."

ickyoldman · August 3, 2019

Ok....fwiw, the newest truck in that group is a 2010......Probably have that solved by now. I had a 1998 Subaru Outback that turned the body to dust but the undercarriage was like new. Same with my x's Toyota. Look at the guys with gm products that are complaining at the time they take delivery that component rust is excessive and if you live in the northern states it's going downhill fast from there.

Cpl_Punishment · August 5, 2019

On 8/2/2019 at 1:57 PM, ickyoldman said:

Pick your poison on one of the new marques.......Find a nice dry country used, older one.........I don't think waiting for something better to come around is going to yield any positive results, soooo.........If you buy new I personally would not expect to hold onto it for very long as the undercarriage begins to rust to death in a very short time. Regionally dependent, to some extent. As much as I hate to say it, imported trucks fare much better in terms of undercarriage rust.

I live in the oil patch so used trucks with easy miles on them are few and far between. Most guys will buy a fully loaded Denali, put 100k kms (60k miles) on it in a year then sell it for $80k CAD. Also, the cities around here have recently switched from sand and gravel to a salt brine mixture so good luck finding a truck that's been driven recently that's not rusting.

My biggest concern with buying used is the condition of the powertrain. You can take the most reliable engine and transmission and ruin it by not doing proper maintenance. In my experience, almost no one sells a vehicle until there's a problem with it.

steveved · August 5, 2019

On 8/24/2018 at 2:58 PM, mk61hacker said:

Thanks everyone for good info (even to those with clear insecurities).

I live in Silicon Valley. I've never owned a truck, never actually owned an American car, never been inside a truck until few weeks ago, don't know anyone (friend, colleague, friend-of-a-friend) who owns a truck... So, yeah, my question was real and not a troll. I'm avid bass fisherman on CA Delta and tow my 21ft Ranger perfectly fine w/my Benz (which is great family car for 4 but totally overpriced). We're getting 7,000lbs Mastercraft watersport boat and I need a vehicle that can tow 10,000lbs safely - SUVs are out and hence my interest in half-ton trucks.

I'm getting here that the major ding towards RAMs is their perceived lack of reliability relatively to GM/Ford. That's something to keep in mind... I've owned MB/BMW for the last 15-20 years. MBs are rock solid, BMWs are very finicky. I expect RAM/GM/Ford to be somewhere in between (hopefully). I actually like Silverado the best exterior/interior design wise, I like 6.2 engine, etc. (hence posting on this forum) - it's just killing me that it is so cheaply made inside and yet they are asking almost $65K for it.

As someone who has owned a 2000 Silverado, a 2014 Silverado and now a 2019 RAM, I can tell you that the Ram will have the best ride quality. Similar to what you get from your Mercedes. The GM engines tend to be bullet proof. Not so their 8speed Auto. But the 10speed auto is a much better transmission.

Don't put as much stock in the forum complaints as some of these fanboys will say. Most people ONLY join a forum to complain. With Ford, GM and RAM truck owners, most that have trouble free trucks almost never post anything on forums. So, for ever 2 horror stories you read, there are at least 25 worry free trucks out there.

As another poster here mentioned, test drive them all, buy the one you like best. In the end, that is really all that matters.

Wintersun · August 6, 2019

My 2011 2500 diesel has prematurely ended my last 3 trips when it went into limp mode thanks to bad programming by the kids at General Motors. Bad NOx sensors have twice put my truck into limp mode and it is very dangerous to have a truck that cannot go over 55mph when trying to merge with freeway traffic at an on-ramp. Out in the west there are vast areas with no secondary roads so it is freeways with 70 mph traffic or nothing.

A problem for me with the GM 1500 trucks is that there is no option to get a larger gas tank unlike with Ford and Ram, or Toyota that comes stock with a 38 gallon gas tank. Seems odd to have tow packages and ignore the greater fuel needs when towing and desire to make fewer fuel stops with a trailer in tow.

Toyota's Tundra has not been updated, other than cosmetics, since 2007, and the date for their new Tundra keeps getting pushed out. It may arrive in 2020 but no one knows. Tundra's have the worst fuel economy and the worst crash performance of any 1/2 ton pickup sold in the USA.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Wintersun

Cpl_Punishment · August 6, 2019

2 hours ago, Wintersun said:

A problem for me with the GM 1500 trucks is that there is no option to get a larger gas tank unlike with Ford and Ram, or Toyota that comes stock with a 38 gallon gas tank. Seems odd to have tow packages and ignore the greater fuel needs when towing and desire to make fewer fuel stops with a trailer in tow.

Toyota's Tundra has not been updated, other than cosmetics, since 2007, and the date for their new Tundra keeps getting pushed out. It may arrive in 2020 but no one knows. Tundra's have the worst fuel economy and the worst crash performance of any 1/2 ton pickup sold in the USA.

Interestingly enough, most guys on the Toyota forums say they can't put more than about 30 gallons in their fuel tanks, even after running them with the low fuel light on for a while. One guy ran his down so far it wouldn't start while parked on a slope and he still only put 31 gallons in. It seems like the last 5 gallons is to keep the pump cool or something like that. Seems like false advertising on Toyota's part and I doubt it would get you more range than GM's 24 gallon tank, given the difference in fuel economy between the two trucks.

MacLaren · August 6, 2019

16 hours ago, Cpl_Punishment said:

Interestingly enough, most guys on the Toyota forums say they can't put more than about 30 gallons in their fuel tanks, even after running them with the low fuel light on for a while. One guy ran his down so far it wouldn't start while parked on a slope and he still only put 31 gallons in. It seems like the last 5 gallons is to keep the pump cool or something like that. Seems like false advertising on Toyota's part and I doubt it would get you more range than GM's 24 gallon tank, given the difference in fuel economy between the two trucks.

That's very interesting.

Thank you for sharing that.

UncleDave · August 10, 2019

Beauty is only skin deep, but quality is enduring. In my experience, complexity is the enemy of reliability. I'd rather have a homely Chevy that is mechanically bulletproof and economical to operate, than a beautiful Ram that is flimsy, or a Gadget-Mobile Ford that is buggy, or a Toyota that is thirstier than an alcoholic camel. But that's just me and doesn't apply to everyone else, and as with any vehicle, YMMV.