Want to go E85 on my 16 Sierra CC 4x4 6.2L

[RyanbabZ71]

Hopefully I will be able to put an E85 kit on my 2019 when I get it.  That is if it will be able to be tuned at all and GM doesn't lock the ECM down.  Then it will be a matter of time before someone cracks it.

I bet you will be able to. It’s a common mod on the 6th gen Camaros.


Ryan B.

[TJay74]

On 7/17/2018 at 11:56 AM, TXGREEK said:

 

Oh NO NO NO! 6.2’s are NOT Flex Fuel compatible


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

OHH.... YES...YES...YES the 6.2 are actually flex fuel compatible. They are the exact same engine as the engine in the Corvette and Camaro other than the intake manifold, exhaust manifold and the tune in the ECM. My Camaro didnt come flex fuel compatible, and yet I converted it over and ran it just fine on it.

[TJay74]

On 7/17/2018 at 1:19 PM, KARNUT said:

I think you miss understood. I saw gains with my 5.3 with E85. My truck was E-85 compatible stock. The 5.3 is tuned to run on reg gas so putting E-85 allows more increase timing and a real seat of the pants feel. The 6.2 is tuned to run on premium fuel. So there wouldn’t be room in the timing tables for a real noticeable feel. E-85 is like buying a boxed of chocolates, you really don’t know what you’re going to get. You can tune the 6.2 to get gains on premium fuel too. My point was you’ll feel it more with the 5.3 starting at the reg fuel timing verses the E-85 timing. Got it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Dude you are so far off from the truth and reality. The GM trucks with the 6.2L engine in them already have the flex fuel tables in the PCM, those tables are fully filled out and ready to go from GM. There are separate timing tables for gas and for E-85 in the ECM along with the sliding scale that accounts for the Ethanol percentage so to be able to adjust the timing map and fueling map.

 

Maybe do some research before telling people how the system works. My 2017 Camaro SS comes with the same exact engine as my 2016 GMC Sierra 6.2. My Camaro didnt come flex fuel setup either, it was tuned on gas when I put the headers on and put down 431rwhp during a summer evening, that same night when the tank was half empty we put 12 gallons of E85 in the tank that once mixed ended up with a reporting value of E65. Car then put down 450rwhp with nothing more than the fuel change and activating the E85 tables that were already in the ECM. Cleaned up the PE Enrichment tables and picked up another 4hp to end up at 454rwhp with nothing more than running E65. The shop said getting from E65 to E85 would give the car maybe another 3-5 rwhp, which was confirmed once I got the car up to E85. At E80 the ECM passes the last timing modifier which will give you the max amount of timing under the E85 tables.

 

The trucks work the exact same way. Plus E85 with the 105 octane rating doesnt show any signs or instances of detonation at all no matter how hot it is outside. My Camaro SS now has a Procharger D1SC on it along with a Alky dual port meth injection system, I still run around E20 and the car puts down 650rwhp on a conservative tune with no signs of detonation at all.

I was hesitant of E85 at first as well, once I found there were several stations around me with it I swapped over. All I can say is I wish I had done it sooner, nothing but positive benefits from running it. No more detonation, no more dirty exhaust tips or carbon, engine runs cleaner with no carbon build up on the pistons or valves, and oil is a little cleaner as well.

On the trucks with pure 91 you can actually add about 4 gallons of E85 which will put you around E15 on 91 octane and it will dang near get rid of any instances of knock that the 6.2 and 5.3 trucks are prone to seeing when it is hot outside. Heck in Texas you can get 93 with E10 in it at the pump, all of the forced induction cars down there love running the stuff.

[Black02Silverado]

29 minutes ago, TJay74 said:

 

Dude you are so far off from the truth and reality. The GM trucks with the 6.2L engine in them already have the flex fuel tables in the PCM, those tables are fully filled out and ready to go from GM. There are separate timing tables for gas and for E-85 in the ECM along with the sliding scale that accounts for the Ethanol percentage so to be able to adjust the timing map and fueling map.

 

Maybe do some research before telling people how the system works. My 2017 Camaro SS comes with the same exact engine as my 2016 GMC Sierra 6.2. My Camaro didnt come flex fuel setup either, it was tuned on gas when I put the headers on and put down 431rwhp during a summer evening, that same night when the tank was half empty we put 12 gallons of E85 in the tank that once mixed ended up with a reporting value of E65. Car then put down 450rwhp with nothing more than the fuel change and activating the E85 tables that were already in the ECM. Cleaned up the PE Enrichment tables and picked up another 4hp to end up at 454rwhp with nothing more than running E65. The shop said getting from E65 to E85 would give the car maybe another 3-5 rwhp, which was confirmed once I got the car up to E85. At E80 the ECM passes the last timing modifier which will give you the max amount of timing under the E85 tables.

 

The trucks work the exact same way. Plus E85 with the 105 octane rating doesnt show any signs or instances of detonation at all no matter how hot it is outside. My Camaro SS now has a Procharger D1SC on it along with a Alky dual port meth injection system, I still run around E20 and the car puts down 650rwhp on a conservative tune with no signs of detonation at all.

I was hesitant of E85 at first as well, once I found there were several stations around me with it I swapped over. All I can say is I wish I had done it sooner, nothing but positive benefits from running it. No more detonation, no more dirty exhaust tips or carbon, engine runs cleaner with no carbon build up on the pistons or valves, and oil is a little cleaner as well.

On the trucks with pure 91 you can actually add about 4 gallons of E85 which will put you around E15 on 91 octane and it will dang near get rid of any instances of knock that the 6.2 and 5.3 trucks are prone to seeing when it is hot outside. Heck in Texas you can get 93 with E10 in it at the pump, all of the forced induction cars down there love running the stuff.

So your Camaro came with the FlexFuel sensor from the factory?  Just wondering because how would the ECM know to adjust the timing tables to the amount of alcohol in the fuel?

[KARNUT]

 
Dude you are so far off from the truth and reality. The GM trucks with the 6.2L engine in them already have the flex fuel tables in the PCM, those tables are fully filled out and ready to go from GM. There are separate timing tables for gas and for E-85 in the ECM along with the sliding scale that accounts for the Ethanol percentage so to be able to adjust the timing map and fueling map.
 
Maybe do some research before telling people how the system works. My 2017 Camaro SS comes with the same exact engine as my 2016 GMC Sierra 6.2. My Camaro didnt come flex fuel setup either, it was tuned on gas when I put the headers on and put down 431rwhp during a summer evening, that same night when the tank was half empty we put 12 gallons of E85 in the tank that once mixed ended up with a reporting value of E65. Car then put down 450rwhp with nothing more than the fuel change and activating the E85 tables that were already in the ECM. Cleaned up the PE Enrichment tables and picked up another 4hp to end up at 454rwhp with nothing more than running E65. The shop said getting from E65 to E85 would give the car maybe another 3-5 rwhp, which was confirmed once I got the car up to E85. At E80 the ECM passes the last timing modifier which will give you the max amount of timing under the E85 tables.
 
The trucks work the exact same way. Plus E85 with the 105 octane rating doesnt show any signs or instances of detonation at all no matter how hot it is outside. My Camaro SS now has a Procharger D1SC on it along with a Alky dual port meth injection system, I still run around E20 and the car puts down 650rwhp on a conservative tune with no signs of detonation at all.

I was hesitant of E85 at first as well, once I found there were several stations around me with it I swapped over. All I can say is I wish I had done it sooner, nothing but positive benefits from running it. No more detonation, no more dirty exhaust tips or carbon, engine runs cleaner with no carbon build up on the pistons or valves, and oil is a little cleaner as well.

On the trucks with pure 91 you can actually add about 4 gallons of E85 which will put you around E15 on 91 octane and it will dang near get rid of any instances of knock that the 6.2 and 5.3 trucks are prone to seeing when it is hot outside. Heck in Texas you can get 93 with E10 in it at the pump, all of the forced induction cars down there love running the stuff.

I have a blown truck too. And have modified diesels. My point was dude is what I would do for bang for the buck. The my 5.3 was ready to go for E-85 no mods needed. So next was a tune, I cleaned up the shift points turned off the cylinder deactivation raised up the top speed. That cost me 300$. If I had the 6.2 I would go with performance tune for premium fuel and the previous stated adjustments. E-85 is a crap shoot for the blend. When I was researching E-85 it’s octane could be as low as 94. You don’t get that fluctuation with premium gas. That’s why I wouldn’t go through the expense converting the 6.2. If memory serves the op was interested in bang for the buck not building a race car. Where with the 5.3 you would still see a gain that’s more pronounced with 98 octane E-85 blend. Because you started with a gas octane of 87 octane. See the point now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RyanbabZ71]

So your Camaro came with the FlexFuel sensor from the factory?  Just wondering because how would the ECM know to adjust the timing tables to the amount of alcohol in the fuel?

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477370


Ryan B.

[Black02Silverado]

8 minutes ago, RyanbabZ71 said:

 

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477370


Ryan B.

 

Thanks Ryan.  I was just curious because in his post he didn't state he installed a sensor, just opened up the E85 table and all was well which isn't the case.  There is a little more to it than that and I didn't want others to get the wrong impression.

[TJay74]

OK, E85 kit is installed on the truck along with a ported Katech throttle body. 

 

Just for those who are interested in factual info, here is some. I had about 4 gallons of E85 in the truck as part of my normal fuel routine this last week. On 91 octane the 4 gallons of E85 added some much needed octane and detonation prevention. With HP Tuners and verified with the Torque app using a custom PID the truck was reporting a E85 percentage of 9.8%. The newer vehicles have a virtual ethanol sensor in place so they can read ethanol in the system. The tables for E85 are fully populated, the only change I had to make was to turn the sensor from "virtual" to "sensor". I had to also change the Min and Max E85 percentage, from the factory it is set at 10% for both of those tables.

 

Now where the tables get interesting is there are modified tables for E10, E20, E40, E60 and E80. At each one of those set points the modifier gets more aggressive until at the E80 point it is at the max modified of "1".

 

Once I got the sensor installed, which took about 30 minutes using the CJ Tunes kit I went in and modified the tune and activated the sensor. Then took the truck for a test drive and logged the truck using the HPT scanner program. Truck reported 14% E85 in the system and performance increase was already showing in how the truck drove and in logged knock which had reduced to almost nothing.

 

Sadly I just filled up this morning, so I am going to have to drive the truck for a week to get the 91 octane out of the tank, but hopefully by next weekend I will be able to get around E60 or higher and start really seeing the advantages of switching over to E85.

 

Any questions feels free to reply on here, contrary to what some of the other posters said about the 6.2L trucks not seeing any benefit is false. The trucks pick up power and response along with adding detonation prevention just like the cars do with the switch over to E85.

Edited July 21, 2018 by TJay74

[SkiDooNick700]

Thanks for the update @TJay74, excited to hear more in the coming weeks.

[KARNUT]

I am open minded and know the benefits of E-85. Prior to my 2014 I always tuned my trucks to the benefits of 93 octane premium fuel. My 14 GMC could use any fuel and generally ran better on E-85. Doing my research I learned that the E-85 blend could vary and be as low as 94 octane. As far as the cost goes it would definitely be cheaper to run E-85 versus premium in most cases. I was able to get it cheaper than reg gas in most cases. So my 5.3 would benefit performance wise even a low E 85 blend, versus what reg 87 has. I only question the over all performance gain with the 62 when it starts with a 91-93 factory tune. So in conclusion if I was going by cost analysis I would measure the benefits of running E-85 over the cost of the required running of 91-93 in the 6.2. In the event you’re able to get a true 105 octane long enough for you truck to adjust for it you’ll definitely see a performance gain over premium fuel. If just concerned about performance I would research the E-85 blends in your area and measure that against a good premium gas performance tune.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[swathdiver]

It takes about 5-6 tanks of fuel to get the full alcohol content of E85 when switching over from gasoline.  Last winter here in the south the highest alcohol content was 71% and right now it is 80%.

[Gorske]

2 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

I am open minded and know the benefits of E-85. Prior to my 2014 I always tuned my trucks to the benefits of 93 octane premium fuel. My 14 GMC could use any fuel and generally ran better on E-85. Doing my research I learned that the E-85 blend could vary and be as low as 94 octane. As far as the cost goes it would definitely be cheaper to run E-85 versus premium in most cases. I was able to get it cheaper than reg gas in most cases. So my 5.3 would benefit performance wise even a low E 85 blend, versus what reg 87 has. I only question the over all performance gain with the 62 when it starts with a 91-93 factory tune. So in conclusion if I was going by cost analysis I would measure the benefits of running E-85 over the cost of the required running of 91-93 in the 6.2. In the event you’re able to get a true 105 octane long enough for you truck to adjust for it you’ll definitely see a performance gain over premium fuel. If just concerned about performance I would research the E-85 blends in your area and measure that against a good premium gas performance tune.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You don't want to look just at the octane rating with it comes to comparing 91-93 versus e85(65%-85%). How the ethanol burns is another reason why you see those performance gains. Ethanol is a cooler burning fuel so when it is compressed and ignited in the cylinders that cooler denser fuel creates a more intense explosion which then creates more power just like how your HP/TQ changes on cooler days versus warmer days. That is why you see the gains you do with e85 or an e85 mix on these higher compression direct injection motors and boosted applications.

[KARNUT]

You don't want to look just at the octane rating with it comes to comparing 91-93 versus e85(65%-85%). How the ethanol burns is another reason why you see those performance gains. Ethanol is a cooler burning fuel so when it is compressed and ignited in the cylinders that cooler denser fuel creates a more intense explosion which then creates more power just like how your HP/TQ changes on cooler days versus warmer days. That is why you see the gains you do with e85 or an e85 mix on these higher compression direct injection motors and boosted applications.

I was actually making arguments for the possible cost benefits of E-85 versus 91-93 fuel. While inviting real experience response with the performance use of E-85. Using E85 in my 5.3 I could get different seat of the pants feel between two different fueling events at two different gas stations. I never got that with premium performance tunes in previous vehicles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gorske]

22 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

I was actually making arguments for the possible cost benefits of E-85 versus 91-93 fuel. While inviting real experience response with the performance use of E-85. Using E85 in my 5.3 I could get different seat of the pants feel between two different fueling events at two different gas stations. I never got that with premium performance tunes in previous vehicles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah the tune is the major role there. My buddy Zak with Klug Performance recently tuned a 2015 Stingray. That car with 93 octane and the stock tune was seeing 9 degrees of knock at 15-17 degrees of time at WOT. When he was done with the tune same fuel that was in the tank he bumped it up to 19-21 degrees of timing with zero knock at WOT. Which is crazy to think that 9 degrees of knock is considered "ok" by GM for the car to be like that. I know when we tuned both my 4.3 and 5.3 trucks for e85 the stock e85 tables were not that great. The e85 tables still made both trucks feel quicker but when properly tuned for the e85 it was a big difference. My 17 5.3 best time on 93 with a great tune was 14.41 in the 1/4 mile. Same truck with Zak's e85 tune with 72% ethanol ran a 13.96 in the 1/4 mile. 4 tenths with just a fuel change and tuning adjustment is huge for a NA motor. I have not personally seen what gain the 6.2 tuned for 93 versus a 6.2 tuned for e85 but I would think it would be equal to if not better results being the 6.2 is a high compression than the 5.3 Maybe someday I will upgrade to a 6.2 truck and test it out.

 

Here is a link to the post on the Stingray tune.

https://www.facebook.com/Klug-Performance-1563100830623160/

Edited July 22, 2018 by Gorske

[KARNUT]

Yeah the tune is the major role there. My buddy Zak with Klug Performance recently tuned a 2015 Stingray. That car with 93 octane and the stock tune was seeing 9 degrees of knock at 15-17 degrees of time at WOT. When he was done with the tune same fuel that was in the tank he bumped it up to 19-21 degrees of timing with zero knock at WOT. I know when we tuned both my 4.3 and 5.3 trucks for e85 the stock e85 tables were not that great. The e85 tables still made both trucks feel quicker but when properly tuned for the e85 it was a big difference. My 17 5.3 best time on 93 with a great tune was 14.41 in the 1/4 mile. Same truck with Zak's e85 tune with 72% ethanol ran a 13.96 in the 1/4 mile. 4 tenths with just a fuel change and tuning adjustment is huge for a NA motor. I have not personally seen what gain the 6.2 tuned for 93 versus a 6.2 tuned for e85 but I would think it would be equal to if not better results being the 6.2 is a high compression than the 5.3 Maybe someday I will upgrade to a 6.2 truck and test it out. [emoji4]
 
Here is a link to the post on the Stingray tune.
https://www.facebook.com/Klug-Performance-1563100830623160/

This is the type of response I was hoping for, instead of your an idiot if you don’t see the benefits. I ask questions. [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk