DISAPPOINTING 2019 Chevy Powertrain / Gearing options

[Threerun]

2 hours ago, WilliamBos said:

The Power Wagon is an awesome truck, rides a bit smoother than a regular 2500HD due to different spring rates.  Have the choice of a locking front/rear diff is sweet too.

My G-locker got a workout the other weekend on a 5 mile stretch of clay/roadmix/scoria rock that sank the truck almost 10” in heavy, wet mud. 

[calgator73]

I think as long as the vehicles are j2807 compliant the ratios can be tuned for optimum fuel economy.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

[cr250Silverado]

It’s also a CAFE regulation thing. These dealers must get certain emissions and MPGs or they are not allowed to even sell their trucks. If they are ahead of the MPG demands they get “credits” that they can redeem later on if their trucks don’t meet the future requirements. If their trucks are under the requirements AND they are out of credits then they either 1) can’t sell any truck at all, or 2) they must buy credits from other manufacturers (if available) so they can continue to sell under performing (emissions/MPG) trucks.  These manufactures are in a hard spot right now. Do they provide higher than required MPG/emissions today and bank up credits, or do they kick the can down the road and sell higher performing trucks today and deal with meeting requirements in the future? I think GM decided to the former and wants to build a safety net of credits. 

[shift_grind]

21 hours ago, cr250Silverado said:

It’s also a CAFE regulation thing. These dealers must get certain emissions and MPGs or they are not allowed to even sell their trucks. If they are ahead of the MPG demands they get “credits” that they can redeem later on if their trucks don’t meet the future requirements. If their trucks are under the requirements AND they are out of credits then they either 1) can’t sell any truck at all, or 2) they must buy credits from other manufacturers (if available) so they can continue to sell under performing (emissions/MPG) trucks.  These manufactures are in a hard spot right now. Do they provide higher than required MPG/emissions today and bank up credits, or do they kick the can down the road and sell higher performing trucks today and deal with meeting requirements in the future? I think GM decided to the former and wants to build a safety net of credits. 

I'm not sure this is relevant as I've never seen the EPA rate two trucks with the same engine/drive/cab but different gears differently.  They rate them with the standard gears that would be 3.23 and they don't also test with optional gears.  

 

I would say it's penny pinching, but they offer 3.42 gears with max tow (larger rear end though) and they can easy charge a couple hundred bucks for the option so that the buyer can get a Z71 with 3.42 gears.  That would surely offset the cost.  

[cr250Silverado]

1 hour ago, shift_grind said:

I'm not sure this is relevant as I've never seen the EPA rate two trucks with the same engine/drive/cab but different gears differently.  They rate them with the standard gears that would be 3.23 and they don't also test with optional gears.  

 

I would say it's penny pinching, but they offer 3.42 gears with max tow (larger rear end though) and they can easy charge a couple hundred bucks for the option so that the buyer can get a Z71 with 3.42 gears.  That would surely offset the cost.  

I cannot say either way for certain. You do make an interesting, and possibly correct, point though. I am leaning towards your belief now.  While more towing capacity is welcomed, I believe *most* half ton pickup owners don’t tow much, if anything. Those who do tow likely only tow boats. And a small percentage tow 6,000k plus campers. The reality of pickups is the half ton isn’t designed to be a towing machine. Those needing towing should probably opt for 2500/3500 trucks. The pickup war between manufactures is fierce and each manufacture wants the trophy for best mpg, fastest, best towing, etc. Where should our reasonable towing capacity expectations of half ton pickups end? 6k, 9k, 10k? These half tons are being built to tow what 3/4 ton pickups used to tow. Which is nice for those who tow, but they also need to cater to the most common user, which is likely a family man who wants a full size truck to drive around, move household things, and tow a boat in rare cases. These people likely want mpg more than towing capacity they don’t need. 

With that said, I will say it is odd looking how different GM/Chevy’s approach is in this regard. As pointed out, all other manufacturers are spec’d with more towing capacity than GM/Chevy. So is GM/Chevy or all of the other manufactures out of touch with customer needs/demands? IDK, that is only a question research could answer. For me it depends on the difference between REAL WORLD MPG and towing capacity. Had I done my research prior to buying; I would happily given up 1-2 mpg for a truck that can tow 9k over 6k (current gen K2 3.42 vs 3.08). Unfortunelty I did not do my homework prior to buying and bought a 3.08. With that said, I have nothing to tow right now, and my only future plan is to get a family boat which the 3.08 can easily tow. 

Edited June 3, 2018 by cr250Silverado

[cr250Silverado]

-Ford’s lowest rating with their V8 crew cab 4x4 is at 8,800.

-Dodge’s lowest rating with their V8 crew cab 4x4 is at 8,600.

-Chevy’s rating with their V8 CC 4x4 is 6,100 (3.08). 

 

The 3.08 is by far the most common equipped axle ratio on dealer lots, and it is the standard equipment when selecting the V8 “upgrade.” This “upgrade” is actually a “downgrade” as the standard equipped V6 has a higher tow rating (7,000). I doubt the V8/3.08 gets better MPG than the V6/3.42, so what is the purpose of the V8/3.08? The only thing you gain from the standard equipped V8 “upgrade” is being able to say you have a V8, while the guy with the V6 can out tow you... WTF GM??

Edited June 3, 2018 by cr250Silverado

[crowsfoot]

Yeah, the neighbor went in to the F dealer to buy a F150 to pull his horse trailer.  The sales person said the 3.31 was the one with the highest tow numbers and they just happened to have one on the lot (lucky them).  Just because the dealer "says" something or they have them on the lot, it doesn't mean you should buy it.

[revrnd]

11 hours ago, crowsfoot said:

Yeah, the neighbor went in to the F dealer to buy a F150 to pull his horse trailer.  The sales person said the 3.31 was the one with the highest tow numbers and they just happened to have one on the lot (lucky them).  Just because the dealer "says" something or they have them on the lot, it doesn't mean you should buy it.

X2

Stuck w/ it on the lot & nobody interested in it?

[HondaHawkGT]

On 5/20/2018 at 2:42 PM, 3737 said:

Stop crying about gear ratios? LOL. Really dude? 

 

Mechanical leverage is a huge deal if you really use a truck or care about performance. I have looked at the actual numbers. I didn’t break them out because, for the most part, transmissions are somewhat similar. In fact, if comparing Ford and Chevy 10 Speeds, gear ratios are all that matter because the transmission is the same. However, I will go ahead and break it out to show that CHEVY IS THE HIGHEST GEARED TRUCKS ON THE ROAD, which is really pathetic! Now, if you are just a poser and want to just look the part, good for you! Question nothing and buy a Chevy. Drive to the mall and sip your Kool-Aid along the way. For those that want to be in the know, how your truck is geared makes a HUGE difference in performance, towing, and turning a larger tire.

 

By the way, the Tundra’s 1^stgear is 3.52 and, with a 4.30 axel ratio, is geared lower than the vast majority of the trucks GM will sell.

 

First Gear x Axel Ratio = Ratio in First

 

	First gear	Axel Ratio	Ratio in 1st
Ford Raptor 10 Spd	4.696	4.10	19.25	Lowest Gearing
RAM 8 Speed	4.714	3.92	18.48
Ford 10 Speed	4.696	3.73	17.52
RAM 8 Speed	4.714	3.55	16.73
Ford 10 Speed	4.696	3.55	16.67
GM 10 Sp Max tow	4.690	3.42	16.04
GM 8 Sp Max tow	4.560	3.42	15.60
Ford 10 Speed	4.696	3.31	15.54
GM 10 Speed	4.696	3.23	15.17
Turndra 6 speed	3.520	4.30	15.14
RAM 8 Speed	4.714	3.21	15.13
GM 8 Speed	4.560	3.23	14.73
GM 6 Speed	4.030	3.42	13.78	Highest gearing

 

The two highest-geared trucks on this list, the GM 8 speed and 6 speed, are the only way you can get a Trailboss. Which is a shame, because I was thinking it would be a performance model, but it is just a poser compared to the Raptor.

 

I was getting excited about a Trailboss with 6.2L, 10 Speed and 3.73 gearing, but if GM is catering to the crossover crowd, that’s not for me. 

 

The Tundra's Aisin AB60E has a 3.33 1st gear, not a 3.52. The Tundra NEEDS a 4.30 rear axle ratio just to avoid long-term transmission problems due to the tall trans gearing and the fact that the Tundra is a heavy pig.

 

The Trailboss was never meant to be a Raptor fighter. The Raptor is a bloated mess with almost cartoonish proportions. It's so wide it has a hard time fitting on a lot of narrow trails in the woods that a normal half-ton has a hard enough time squeezing down, and as long as Ford continues to use plastic hub locks the F-150's plastic 4WD system is a joke. The Trailboss is meant to match up with the Ram Rebel and F-150 FX4.

 

GM isn't "catering to the crossover crowd", even the 8L90 and 3.42's is more than enough gear. That's a better final drive than any F-150 offered up until they got the 10-speed this year. Even if Ford has the bragging rights for a tiny advantage in gearing, it's not much use with the terrible 4WD system they have. All that torque still gets transferred to the front wheels through those plastic gears that get chewed up constantly. Raptor guys chew them up constantly.

 

If you plan on wheeling off-road so hard that you think you need a 19.25:1 final drive ratio, you can still have it regeared. I mean, if you're running huge tires and really doing some hardcore off-roading, you're already going to have the rear diff pulled apart to swap out the G80 for something that will handle those huge tires and take lots of abuse , right?

 

Edited June 16, 2018 by HondaHawkGT

[shift_grind]

I just want a 3.42 option outside max tow, as you can't get Max Tow with setups like the Elevation, Trailboss or even a Z71 truck.  These new trucks come with bigger tires than ever and would look great with even a 34, but a 34" LT 3.23 isn't going to be great.  

[3737]

3 hours ago, HondaHawkGT said:

 

The Tundra's Aisin AB60E has a 3.33 1st gear, not a 3.52. The Tundra NEEDS a 4.30 rear axle ratio just to avoid long-term transmission problems due to the tall trans gearing and the fact that the Tundra is a heavy pig.

 

The Trailboss was never meant to be a Raptor fighter. The Raptor is a bloated mess with almost cartoonish proportions. It's so wide it has a hard time fitting on a lot of narrow trails in the woods that a normal half-ton has a hard enough time squeezing down, and as long as Ford continues to use plastic hub locks the F-150's plastic 4WD system is a joke. The Trailboss is meant to match up with the Ram Rebel and F-150 FX4.

 

GM isn't "catering to the crossover crowd", even the 8L90 and 3.42's is more than enough gear. That's a better final drive than any F-150 offered up until they got the 10-speed this year. Even if Ford has the bragging rights for a tiny advantage in gearing, it's not much use with the terrible 4WD system they have. All that torque still gets transferred to the front wheels through those plastic gears that get chewed up constantly. Raptor guys chew them up constantly.

 

If you plan on wheeling off-road so hard that you think you need a 19.25:1 final drive ratio, you can still have it regeared. I mean, if you're running huge tires and really doing some hardcore off-roading, you're already going to have the rear diff pulled apart to swap out the G80 for something that will handle those huge tires and take lots of abuse , right?

 

Thank you for reinforcing my point that Fords are better geared than GM trucks. That is part of the premise of this thread, that 2019 GM powertrain/gearing options are a huge DISAPOINTMENT. GM is bringing a new truck to market that is not keeping up with what Ford already has out. That is DISAPOINTING! 

 

Not using the 10-speed across the board as Ford already does is DISAPOINTING. 

 

Moving to taller gears on the 5.3L for 2019 is DISAPOINTING.

 

Moving to taller gears with the max tow package is DISAPOINTING.

 

Going to a single-speed transfer case as standard equipment is DISAPOINTING. (Honda Ridgeline is the other Crossover truck that has single-speed AWD) 

 

Building the TRAILBOSS, and putting some of the tallest gearing of any truck for 2019 in it is DISAPOINTING.  (HIGHWAYBOSS wouldn’t be as misleading) 

 

Not allowing a Chevy to have both a 2-speed transfer case and the max tow package is DISAPOINTING

 

Not increasing engine power outputs for 2019 is DISAPOINTING.

 

Charging $1,000-2,000 for max tow package when Ram gear ratios can be ordered for $95 and Ford about $300 is DISAPOINTING

 

I’m a Chevy fan, I like the 2019, but really disappointed in the powertrain/gearing options and the direction they are headed, especially compared to the others.

[HondaHawkGT]

3 hours ago, shift_grind said:

I just want a 3.42 option outside max tow, as you can't get Max Tow with setups like the Elevation, Trailboss or even a Z71 truck.  These new trucks come with bigger tires than ever and would look great with even a 34, but a 34" LT 3.23 isn't going to be great.  

Well you could get the Max Tow and level it like we've had to do for the last 5 years with the K2 trucks. All you need are leveling coilovers in front and 2" blocks just like the ones I put on my truck and you basically have a Trailboss. The Trailboss is supposedly coming with 33's. The 8L90 with 3.23's is going to have almost the exact same gearing as a 2014-2018 Silverado/Sierra with the 6-speed and 3.73's. Those guys don't complain about the gearing being too tall with that setup.

 

Axle ratio isn't very important when your first gear is 4.56 and second gear is a 2.97!

 

The guys with the old GMT800 trucks with the 4L60E would need 4.88's to come even close to the final drive in first gear of the 8L90+3.23's. And most guys would tell you that 4.88's would be overkill for 33's.

 

[HondaHawkGT]

 

3 hours ago, 3737 said:

Thank you for reinforcing my point that Fords are better geared than GM trucks. That is part of the premise of this thread, that 2019 GM powertrain/gearing options are a huge DISAPOINTMENT. GM is bringing a new truck to market that is not keeping up with what Ford already has out. That is DISAPOINTING! 

There's nothing stopping a guy from owning a 2019 GM half-ton with better gearing than a 2019 F-150. It's not nearly as easy to address the F-150's sissy plastic 4WD or tin foil bed. Between the Ford's junk 4WD and the wimpy Reynolds Wrap bed, "Built Ford Tough" is nothing but a joke these days. But hey, Ford will sell you 3.73's on your toy pickup.

3 hours ago, 3737 said:

Not using the 10-speed across the board as Ford already does is DISAPOINTING. 

 

The difference in gear ratio spread between the 8-speed and 10-speed are so small it's nearly impossible to notice the difference under 99% of scenarios. That's why Ford even programmed the 10-speed to skip gears under less than WOT conditions.

3 hours ago, 3737 said:

Moving to taller gears on the 5.3L for 2019 is DISAPOINTING.

A 2019 Silverado/Sierra 1500 with the 8-speed and 3.23's will have better gearing than the best gearing you could get in a 2014-18 K2 GM half-ton. The best gearing you could get in a K2 half-ton is the exact same gearing you can get in a 2019 GM half-ton. I don't know if you think that a truck with the 6-speed and 3.73's has better gearing than a 2019 truck with the 8-speed and 3.42 (or 3.23's for that matter), but you're 100% wrong. Stop obsessing with axle ratios like an ignoramus. An 8-speed with 3.23's has more aggressive gearing an the 4L60 with 4.88's would have.

3 hours ago, 3737 said:

Moving to taller gears with the max tow package is DISAPOINTING.

 

A 2019 Silverado/Sierra 1500 with the 8-speed and 3.42's is the exact same gearing that the 2016-18 K2 GM half-tons with the max tow package had. The gearing did NOT get taller. You keep looking at axle ratio and completely ignoring the transmission that's turning those axles, like an ignoramous.

 

3 hours ago, 3737 said:

Going to a single-speed transfer case as standard equipment is DISAPOINTING. (Honda Ridgeline is the other Crossover truck that has single-speed AWD) 

 

Nobody is making your buy a 2019 GM half-ton with a single speed TC. If you want a 2-speed TC, buy the package with the 2-speed TC. 90% of half-tons sold today have probably never been in 4LO. I've used it twice in the last 2 years. Want 3.73's and a 2-speed TC in your Trailboss? Regear it like truck guys have had to do for the last 50 years when they weren't happy with the gear ratios offered. The 2019 GM half-tons are still using the 9.5" rear axle and 8.25" IFS front diff, so several aftermarket gear ratios are already available.

4 hours ago, 3737 said:

Building the TRAILBOSS, and putting some of the tallest gearing of any truck for 2019 in it is DISAPOINTING.  (HIGHWAYBOSS wouldn’t be as misleading) 

Again, an LT Trailboss with the 8L90 and 3.23's will still have a gearing advantage from 2nd on up against a 1st gen Raptor. The 2nd gen Raptor might have the 10-speed but as I said, the gear ratio spread difference is tiny and the truck is rolling on 35's which are going to make that 4.10 feel like a truck with <3/73's. Not to mention the Raptor's 4WD setup relies on cheap (garbage) plastic gears to transfer powers from the half shafts to the tires. The Raptor is a mall crawler.

 

4 hours ago, 3737 said:

Not allowing a Chevy to have both a 2-speed transfer case and the max tow package is DISAPOINTING

A 2019 Silverado with the Z-71 package (2-speed TC), 8L90, and 3.23's, will still have more aggressive gearing than a 2014-18 Silverado/Sierra 1500 with the 5.3 with the max tow package.

 

4 hours ago, 3737 said:

Not increasing engine power outputs for 2019 is DISAPOINTING.

*The all-new 2015 F-150's 3.5 EB did not receive a power output increase between 2011 and 2017. The 5.0 got a tiny increase in 2015 equivalent to a CAI. Most manufacturers don't increase engine power the same year they release a totally new truck platform. Want more power? Mod/tune it.

*The 1500-new 2019 Ram 1500 is using the exact same engine that came in a 2010 Ram 1500.  The 2014 Ram 1500 gets the exact same fuel economy as a 2019 Ram 1500, as well as making the exact same power. Oh and BTW, a 2016 Ram 1500 with the 5.7 Hemi, 8-speed transmission, and 3.92 axle ratio was slower than a Sierra 6.2 with the 8-speed and 3.23's. And the Sierra was speed limited for the last few hundred feet of the 1/4-mile.

 

4 hours ago, 3737 said:

Charging $1,000-2,000 for max tow package when Ram gear ratios can be ordered for $95 and Ford about $300 is DISAPOINTING

If you just spend $95 on the Ram 3.92's, you have a worthless open diff.The Ram e-locker is an additional $495. And while Ford will sell you an F-150 with 3.73's for $300, you're still buying a truck with a plastic vacuum actuated 4WD and worthless junk engines. Not to mention you aren't going to get the $10k+ in rebates custom ordering a 2018 F-150 with 3.73's. 99% of dealers will stock 3.55's at best. At that point, you're no further ahead in cost than you would be buying a 2019 GM half-ton withe the 8-speed and simply getting it regeared to ANY ratio you think you need.

 

4 hours ago, 3737 said:

I’m a Chevy fan, I like the 2019, but really disappointed in the powertrain/gearing options and the direction they are headed, especially compared to the others.

Then write GM a letter. GM isn't reading this thread and we can't tell GM to put 3.73's in your 2019 Chevy.

[j-ten-ner]

3 hours ago, HondaHawkGT said:

7 hours ago, 3737 said:

Not allowing a Chevy to have both a 2-speed transfer case and the max tow package is DISAPOINTING

A 2019 Silverado with the Z-71 package (2-speed TC), 8L90, and 3.23's, will still have more aggressive gearing than a 2014-18 Silverado/Sierra 1500 with the 5.3 with the max tow package.

...now lean back, close your eyes and imagine that you have a 2-speed transfer case on top of that....aaaaaaaaahhhhh.

 

so long

j-ten-ner

[revrnd]

12 hours ago, HondaHawkGT said:

Well you could get the Max Tow and level it like we've had to do for the last 5 years with the K2 trucks. All you need are leveling coilovers in front and 2" blocks just like the ones I put on my truck and you basically have a Trailboss. The Trailboss is supposedly coming with 33's. The 8L90 with 3.23's is going to have almost the exact same gearing as a 2014-2018 Silverado/Sierra with the 6-speed and 3.73's. Those guys don't complain about the gearing being too tall with that setup.

 

Axle ratio isn't very important when your first gear is 4.56 and second gear is a 2.97!

 

The guys with the old GMT800 trucks with the 4L60E would need 4.88's to come even close to the final drive in first gear of the 8L90+3.23's. And most guys would tell you that 4.88's would be overkill for 33's.

 

Exactly!