DISAPPOINTING 2019 Chevy Powertrain / Gearing options

[48548]

Nice, a 2 speed power glide... or a nice th400 with gear vendors od. I have a diesel jeep with a zf 8hp70 and i will say it is awesome.

 

I still miss my wifes g8 with 6l80 in 08... I am surprised they are still using in 10 years later. Technology changes a lot now.

 

But I will say my allison 1000 in my duramax appears to be bullet proof with stock 3.73 gears and stock tires. Hell that transmission is dated, but with the low rpms in a diesel/torque and gearing not much if anything to gain I assume in more gears.

 

I think gm is doing pretty well thinking of of my 05 with 3.42 gears and the l33 5.3 and 4l60e... at least i added an hd2 transgo and better servo and few other parts. The person i sold it to is still driving it.

 

 

 

 

[HondaHawkGT]

2 hours ago, shift_grind said:

Why do people keep bringing up the 4 speed reference.  Why not go all the way back to the TH350 for reference? 2.52 1st gear.  Powerglide too perhaps?

 

A 8 speed with 3.23 gears and 33" tires will drive a lot like a 6 speed with 3.42 gears and 32" tires as far as 1st gear goes. 

We keep referencing previous transmissions because most of us have experience driving previous generations of GM trucks. Plus you can't defy the laws of physics when it comes to gear ratios, especially when you look at the tight spacing of the 8L90's gears and the fact that the 8L90 has a huge advantage once starts shifting. The tight gearing means the engine is constantly kept in the peak of its powerband. The 6-speed sometimes means the engine drops out of the sweet spot and the 4-speed is even worse. Like exfordguy, most of us have driven a Silverado or Sierra with the 4L60 and 3.73's or 4.10's or 4.56's with 32/33/35's. We know how those trucks handled different tire sizes. We can look at the final drive of a 4L60 and different gear ratios and know how the 8L90 and 3.23's or 3.42's should drive with the same tires. Most of us have owned a truck with the 6L80 and 3.42's/3.73's/4.10's with oversized tires. We know how the 8L90 and 3.23's or 3.42's will drive compared to those trucks. The 4L60, 6L80, and 8L90 have very different gear ratio spreads and very different gear spacing. We can look past the axle ratio and see that the 8L90 has far more aggressive gear reduction and understand where it will be in the powerband every time it shifts. Tire size aside, the 8L90 with 3.23's is going to feel nearly as fast as a K2 truck with the 6L80 and 3.73's. The 6L80 has much bigger jumps between gears and the K2 truck it was in is much heavier. A 2019 truck being up to 450 lbs lighter will make a huge difference combined with the superior transmission.

 

Have you driven a K2 truck with the 6L80 and 3.42's that's been tuned? Because getting a good tune for a K2 truck makes a night and day difference. The 2014+ 5.3's have a lot of timing pulled just off of idle for emissions reasons and makes the truck feel sluggish. The GM tunes the transmission to have overly aggressive torque management too. Those two factors make a truck feel like it's geared too tall when it's purely because the computers don't let the truck drive like it should. I've driven several K2's with 6L80's (3.08's, 3.73's, and 4.10's) and 8L90's (3.23's). The 8L90 with 3.23's and 33's, even with less power, will pull away from a truck with the 6-speed and 3.73's with 33's.

[HondaHawkGT]

7 hours ago, ExFordGuy77 said:

Warranties....a GM rep will notice oversized tires a lot sooner than he'll decide to put a truck on a lift and very carefully count tire revolutions. There have been plenty of powertrain warranties denied for oversized tires. By GM, Ford, Ram, Toyota.... Some dealers some dealers are better than others when it comes to tires. Other than a driveshaft balance issue or busted G80 I can't think of a reason anyone would even check if your gears are stock.

 

Yup. Just doing a few Google searches shows that it's somewhat common to lose warranty coverage just because the tires are oversized. Tacoma guys especially love to throw huge tires on their new truck. Most of them see that they have 3.91's or 4.30's and assume that they they can go offroading with 35" tires. Quite a few end up with destroyed rear diffs because of the crap rear axle setup and taller transmission gears Toyota uses.

 

Most GM reps are not going to throw your truck on a lift and turn the wheels to make sure the axle ratio is still a 3.23 and they surely won't pull the diff cover off unless the issue you want checked out appears to be caused by the axle. Maybe if you show up complaining about a high speed vibration. In that case, they might look at your driveshaft eventually open up the rear diff. They might blame the higher driveshaft speed (due to new gears) for the vibration. I know a guy that put 4.10's in his F-body and had vibration issues that required him to get his driveshaft rebalanced.

 

If you go to the dealer with a transmission problem, it's easy for GM/Ford/Ram/Toyota/Nissan to blame your big tires. I'm sure down in Texas (for example) there are a lot of dealers that will cover your repairs if they sell trucks with over-sized tires. But they probably won't care if your truck is re-geared either.

[HondaHawkGT]

3 hours ago, 48548 said:

I think gm is doing pretty well thinking of of my 05 with 3.42 gears and the l33 5.3 and 4l60e... at least i added an hd2 transgo and better servo and few other parts. The person i sold it to is still driving it.

Yeah most of us are more than happy to see that the tallest gears on a 2019 are nearly as aggressive as the best gearing you could get on the last truck with the standard 6-speed. Some of the younger guys don't know what it took for a guy to run 35's on a GM truck with the 4L60 and make the truck perform well (exfordguy is right 4.56 or 4.88's is pretty accurate). A 4L60 with 3.42's is a REAL dog compared to what GM is using in half-tons in 2019. Do kids think that a half-ton should be geared like a D10 dozer or something? lol

[KARNUT]

As far as warranty there’s tons of dealers that sell lift packages. The Houston area is full of them. As far as HP, transmission, rear end gears I fell bad for you guys. My first truck I put oversized tires on was a 70 Ford p/u with a 240 six, 3 on the tree. I had a 100 gal fuel tank and a tool box. I could go through deep mud and easily go the speed limit. I later put a 289 in it for the V8 sound with glass packs. I put oversized tires on all my trucks for 40 years and never ordered gears based on that. People who want to go extreme with 6 inch lift and tires to match your on your own. If you must I’ve seen them being sold at the dealers. You gotta pay to play.


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[shift_grind]

I have driven a stock k2 with a 5.3 and 6 speed 3.42s, no tune.  

 

You guys are suggesting spending 2k to regear, requiring a tune  which will void your warranty if you will have a problem.  Wow  How about they just offer 3.42s.  

 

The logic here makes me just sigh and shake my head.  The only possible explanation is you guys work for GM and insist of telling people what they need and not caring what they want.  All to save a couple bucks, meanwhile losing sales. 

[3737]

16 hours ago, shift_grind said:

Why do people keep bringing up the 4 speed reference.  Why not go all the way back to the TH350 for reference? 2.52 1st gear.  Powerglide too perhaps? 

 

I have a 6 speed with 2.92's, 27" tire.  It needs more gear for sure.  So does the 6 speed 3.42 ratio truck I drove a lot, that also had a 32" tire.  

 

A 8 speed with 3.23 gears and 33" tires will drive a lot like a 6 speed with 3.42 gears and 32" tires as far as 1st gear goes. 

They keep bring up 4 speeds because Chevy's 2019 offerings look pretty good compared to 20-30 year old technology. 

 

Unfortunately, it’s not on par with what Ford already offers. Ford has 10 speed transmission on all trim levels, more gearing options, 2 speed transfer case standard, and more powerful engines that can be had on any trim. 

 

I am glad Chevy has taken a step forward from previous model years, but disappointed they are not on par with what Ford already offers for powertrain/gearing options. 

[pickmeup]

50 minutes ago, 3737 said:

They keep bring up 4 speeds because Chevy's 2019 offerings look pretty good compared to 20-30 year old technology. 

 

Unfortunately, it’s not on par with what Ford already offers. Ford has 10 speed transmission on all trim levels, more gearing options, 2 speed transfer case standard, and more powerful engines that can be had on any trim. 

 

I am glad Chevy has taken a step forward from previous model years, but disappointed they are not on par with what Ford already offers for powertrain/gearing options. 

Might have taken 10 pages to get there but you pretty much summed it up in a few words . imo . lol

[ExFordGuy77]

On 6/22/2018 at 3:38 PM, 3737 said:

They keep bring up 4 speeds because Chevy's 2019 offerings look pretty good compared to 20-30 year old technology. 

 

Unfortunately, it’s not on par with what Ford already offers. Ford has 10 speed transmission on all trim levels, more gearing options, 2 speed transfer case standard, and more powerful engines that can be had on any trim. 

 

I am glad Chevy has taken a step forward from previous model years, but disappointed they are not on par with what Ford already offers for powertrain/gearing options. 

Not on par with Ford? Not trying to continue this pointless debate but extra engin and an option for 3.73's from the factory doesn't make up for all the weakness Ford has substituted into the F-150 these days. They went too thin on the aluminum used to construct the bed, they made the frames thinner and used a lower quality e-coating, their engines still have a lot of issues that Ford doesn't properly address in re-designs, and their 4WD design still relies on a cheap plastic auto locking hub. Power sent to the front has to go through plastic gears inside the integrated wheel end. The vacuum systems constantly have vacuum issues that cause the fears to grind up. If you really get on it in 4WD, you risk damaging the gears. They should at least use manual hub locks made of metal. The IFS they're using these days is also terrible compared to how heavy they used to build them. At one time Ford bragged about the forged steel upper control arms, now they use extra lightweight (thin) stamped steel. Even the ball joints don't last as long as they used to. 

 

Thanks but no thanks. I'll regear a Chevy before I buy a Ford because it has 3.73's from the factory. 

 

You dont need a retune just because you regear a truck. Just figure out what speed you need to drive and you're good. Still less of a warranty risk than putting oversized tires on regardless.

[HondaHawkGT]

7 hours ago, ExFordGuy77 said:

Thanks but no thanks. I'll regear a Chevy before I buy a Ford because it has 3.73's from the factory. 

Amen. I know enough guys with 2015+ F-150's with problems. The 4WD problems are insane. Between 3 guys with 2015+ F-150s, they've gone through nearly a dozen IWE's over the last couple winters. One of them left the dealer after they claimed they "fixed" it only to have the plastic splined gears grind again, taking the 4WD system out with it. The big issue is that Ford's most popular engine options are engines that don't have manifold vacuum anymore, so an electric vacuum pump is required to boost the brakes and actuate the IWE's. The cheap plastic solenoids, check valves, vac lines, and gears are very fragile or inconsistent in quality.

[shift_grind]

15 hours ago, ExFordGuy77 said:

Not on par with Ford? Not trying to continue this pointless debate but extra engin and an option for 3.73's from the factory doesn't make up for all the weakness Ford has substituted into the F-150 these days. They went too thin on the aluminum used to construct the bed, they made the frames thinner and used a lower quality e-coating, their engines still have a lot of issues that Ford doesn't properly address in re-designs, and their 4WD design still relies on a cheap plastic auto locking hub. Power sent to the front has to go through plastic gears inside the integrated wheel end. The vacuum systems constantly have vacuum issues that cause the fears to grind up. If you really get on it in 4WD, you risk damaging the gears. They should at least use manual hub locks made of metal. The IFS they're using these days is also terrible compared to how heavy they used to build them. At one time Ford bragged about the forged steel upper control arms, now they use extra lightweight (thin) stamped steel. Even the ball joints don't last as long as they used to. 

 

Thanks but no thanks. I'll regear a Chevy before I buy a Ford because it has 3.73's from the factory. 

 

You dont need a retune just because you regear a truck. Just figure out what speed you need to drive and you're good. Still less of a warranty risk than putting oversized tires on regardless.

This is why I'm frustrated.  GM got all the hard stuff right, but is letting me down with the easy stuff.  The f150s look nice from 50', but any closer and you can see the crappy creased wavy body panels. How that doesn't get mentioned by the mags is beyond me.  Completely unacceptable on a 60k 2018.

 

You guys are saying don't worry about having the tallest gearing.  Another thread is saying don't worry about having the least amount of power (outside a very spendy LTZ/6.2).  Maybe each separately isn't a huge deal.  Together it's going to be disappointing compared to the competition.  But hey, it's better than the 15 year old Chevy's.  

 

 

I don't understand GMs ignorance.  It's their too selling vehicle and they pull this shit.  They have no interest in being #1 in sales.  

[ExFordGuy77]

12 hours ago, shift_grind said:

But hey, it's better than the 15 year old Chevy's.  

Both the 8+3.23 and 8+3.42 are better than the gearing in the last trucks. So it's better than the trucks from a year ago.

 

And I agree with you about the wavy bodies. They're are terrible. Wavy, inconsistent gaps, bad paint, misaligned panels, etc. They still havent proven they can get paint to stick to aluminum either. My buddy's 2012 Mustang has all kinds of flaking/bubbling paint on the aluminum hood.

Edited June 27, 2018 by ExFordGuy77

[shift_grind]

9 hours ago, ExFordGuy77 said:

Both the 8+3.23 and 8+3.42 are better than the gearing in the last trucks. So it's better than the trucks from a year ago.

 

And I agree with you about the wavy bodies. They're are terrible. Wavy, inconsistent gaps, bad paint, misaligned panels, etc. They still havent proven they can get paint to stick to aluminum either. My buddy's 2012 Mustang has all kinds of flaking/bubbling paint on the aluminum hood.

That's not accurate.  5.3 8 3.42 was standard on slts and LTZs since 2016.  They just slowly pulled back availability of it until now you have to order a top-trim truck to get it.

 

You don't have to defend everything they do, you can have complaints and still like the product. I'd rather they make a better product and packages versus just accepting everything they do is the best. 

[DTB]

I do like my 16 5.3 8 speed 3.42 truck. However, I believe the 0-60 time and MPG was lower than the 6 speed models. I’m always hesitant to believe the new technology will be great out of the box considering they haven’t got one right yet and I’m sure the 10 speed will be a clunky jerky POS at times too. 

[WilliamBos]

On 2018-06-25 at 8:01 PM, ExFordGuy77 said:

Not on par with Ford? Not trying to continue this pointless debate but extra engin and an option for 3.73's from the factory doesn't make up for all the weakness Ford has substituted into the F-150 these days. They went too thin on the aluminum used to construct the bed, they made the frames thinner and used a lower quality e-coating, their engines still have a lot of issues that Ford doesn't properly address in re-designs, and their 4WD design still relies on a cheap plastic auto locking hub. Power sent to the front has to go through plastic gears inside the integrated wheel end. The vacuum systems constantly have vacuum issues that cause the fears to grind up. If you really get on it in 4WD, you risk damaging the gears. They should at least use manual hub locks made of metal. The IFS they're using these days is also terrible compared to how heavy they used to build them. At one time Ford bragged about the forged steel upper control arms, now they use extra lightweight (thin) stamped steel. Even the ball joints don't last as long as they used to. 

 

Thanks but no thanks. I'll regear a Chevy before I buy a Ford because it has 3.73's from the factory. 

 

You dont need a retune just because you regear a truck. Just figure out what speed you need to drive and you're good. Still less of a warranty risk than putting oversized tires on regardless.

Thanks for the info, glad I never bought thr F150 I test drove.  

 

And I don’t think Ford has a fix for the door handles freezing shut in the cold climates.