2019 frames paint or wax

L86 All Terrain · May 8, 2018

11 minutes ago, amxguy1970 said:

"Real Winter"? Like 13 years in Minnesota? 3 in Marquette or close family that lives in Chicago, Utah and Colorado that are GM owners as well? The stuff does fine, it is mostly aesthetics people complain about. Surface rust isn't damaging, dangerous or a reason to replace; you rarely see a frame that is rusted through (though every manufacturer has them). Every 5-8 years? Come on... How is that possible with and I quote from GM "More than half of light-duty pick-up trucks on the road are now 11 years or older." if they have frames that rust out in a 1/4 of the US every 5-8 years? Preventative maintenance goes a long way, even just spraying off the underside from time to time.

You can find rust complaints across all makers (Toyota, Ford, Dodge). I will take gladly take a frame that is submerged in an oily wax coating so it gets covered in all the nooks and crannies especially internally in a boxed frame than an external pretty paint job. If you drag your frame over a curb or rock both the painted and wax frames will have their coatings removed, it is easy to touch up both. What isn't easy is getting stuff inside the frame or in hard to reach areas that salt and corrosion sit and start the rusting process from inside.

Either way there are pros and cons to each but considering how long it has been used and how minimal the major failures are (taking the whole it doesn't look pretty out of the equation) the stuff works. Not to mention they continue to improve on it...

Tyler

Because those 11 y/o trucks have a 1/4" thick C-channel beam frame, not a 25 gauge stamped steel box frames. I live in Ontario, the road salt capital of the world and work as a contractor on many gravel roads. I have 2 K2's, 2 GMT900 2500's, and a K2 2500 for my business. None of these trucks have anything left for wax, inside or out except my 6.2L garage princess. Now this is where the problems start. Instead of a 1/4" piece of C-channel steel being exposed to the elements, we now have a piece of 1/32" stamped steel exposed to the elements. If you have ever worked with steel or know a little about it, you know that thin steel exposed to the elements may structurally deteriorate in as little as 12 months depending on conditions. Ever have a look at old trailer cross members, or the beams that mount the truck bed to the frame? Thin steel will always lose structural rigidity before thick steel, almost regardless of the beam design. Every single year I replace or fish-plate thin steel cross-members and on multiple class 8 trailers and even body steel such as engine bay doors on my graders and loaders due to mass corrosion once the paint or coating has been blasted and it is exposed to salt. The constant expanding/contracting of steel from daily 40 degree variances in temperature doesn't help anything either. I buy three 5gal pails of Navy Blue rust-paint every year to keep the metal coated on my trailers.

The problem is once this wax is gone, there is no way to refinish a sealed box frame, you can't get in there to clean, prep, or paint as you pointed out. All you can do is pump it full of gear oil/diesel mix and hope it gets everywhere enough to prolong the frame a few years. The box frames may be more ridged and stronger overall, but they will last half the time and be near impossible to "restore" when compared to the old frames.

My opinion is that the wax was a cheap solution for GM as compared to a electrolysis-type "dipped" coating like Ford, or a proper powder coat. I used to like the idea of the wax, but after seeing frames on a 2 year old truck look like your driving something from 1982, I quickly changed my mind especially knowing I could not properly maintain it. I am a GM fanboy through and through and probably wouldn't consider anything else, but I will be the first to call them out on their shortcomings. I would be all for the wax, but only if the frame was "e-coated" or painted before hand so when the wax does fail, it isn't exposed bare metal. I would be okay with it if Daubert sold to the public, but they don't seem to want to and unless you know the Service Manager at your dealer, they wont sell you any of their rattle cans. Not a huge deal if you trade when the warranty is up, but these are problems the next owner will face trying to make these trucks last 20 years like the C/K1500 series from the 90's. Cheers man, good insight.

shift_grind · May 8, 2018

42 minutes ago, 10SierraA.T. said:

Because those 11 y/o trucks have a 1/4" thick C-channel beam frame, not a 25 gauge stamped steel box frames. I live in Ontario, the road salt capital of the world and work as a contractor on many gravel roads. I have 2 K2's, 2 GMT900 2500's, and a K2 2500 for my business. None of these trucks have anything left for wax, inside or out except my 6.2L garage princess. Now this is where the problems start. Instead of a 1/4" piece of C-channel steel being exposed to the elements, we now have a piece of 1/32" stamped steel exposed to the elements. If you have ever worked with steel or know a little about it, you know that thin steel exposed to the elements may structurally deteriorate in as little as 12 months depending on conditions. Ever have a look at old trailer cross members, or the beams that mount the truck bed to the frame? Thin steel will always lose structural rigidity before thick steel, almost regardless of the beam design. Every single year I replace or fish-plate thin steel cross-members and on multiple class 8 trailers and even body steel such as engine bay doors on my graders and loaders due to mass corrosion once the paint or coating has been blasted and it is exposed to salt. The constant expanding/contracting of steel from daily 40 degree variances in temperature doesn't help anything either. I buy three 5gal pails of Navy Blue rust-paint every year to keep the metal coated on my trailers.

The problem is once this wax is gone, there is no way to refinish a sealed box frame, you can't get in there to clean, prep, or paint as you pointed out. All you can do is pump it full of gear oil/diesel mix and hope it gets everywhere enough to prolong the frame a few years. The box frames may be more ridged and stronger overall, but they will last half the time and be near impossible to "restore" when compared to the old frames.

My opinion is that the wax was a cheap solution for GM as compared to a electrolysis-type "dipped" coating like Ford, or a proper powder coat. I used to like the idea of the wax, but after seeing frames on a 2 year old truck look like your driving something from 1982, I quickly changed my mind especially knowing I could not properly maintain it. I am a GM fanboy through and through and probably wouldn't consider anything else, but I will be the first to call them out on their shortcomings. I would be all for the wax, but only if the frame was "e-coated" or painted before hand so when the wax does fail, it isn't exposed bare metal. I would be okay with it if Daubert sold to the public, but they don't seem to want to and unless you know the Service Manager at your dealer, they wont sell you any of their rattle cans. Not a huge deal if you trade when the warranty is up, but these are problems the next owner will face trying to make these trucks last 20 years like the C/K1500 series from the 90's. Cheers man, good insight.

25 gauge steel? Sounds like an exaggeration.

MaverickZ71 · May 8, 2018

I seriously doubt they changed it on the new generation. The General does not seem to care about what they perceive to be these 'small problems' that they never solve across 4-5+ generations of vehicles, even when it would be an easy fix for them. Such as the recurring problems with frame coatings, piston knock, AFM system, and rear driveshaft bump-stop clunk, some going all the way back to the GMT800 models and even before.

I do not like the wax stuff on the GM frames either. We've had several of these vehicles in the family over the years. In my experience, the GM stuff is sticky and tends to rub off on you for the first year or two, and then it is like trying to wash tar out of your clothes. Then it finally dries out/hardens and later starts to crack and flake off in spots and whole sections, and the underneath exposed metal surface instantly rusts. It may or may not be structurally a problem later on, but it looks like crap, and seems to be another cost-cutting move on the General's part. I know the rear fender inserts were pushed by my dealer as an install-this-now-so-you-won't-have-to-look-at-the-rust-later kind of deal. My Dad has asked many times over the last 35+ years why do our Chevys always look rusty (assembled with surface rust on new axle tube and other parts, etc, and pushed out the door) underneath and Fords and FCA's tend to look new (axles/frames/suspension/everything painted/coated) underneath. The next time I do lunch with Tim Herrick, I'll ask him.

Edited May 8, 2018 by MaverickZ71

Skeld · May 10, 2018

On 5/8/2018 at 3:33 PM, amxguy1970 said:

"Real Winter"? Like 13 years in Minnesota? 3 in Marquette or close family that lives in Chicago, Utah and Colorado that are GM owners as well? The stuff does fine, it is mostly aesthetics people complain about. Surface rust isn't damaging, dangerous or a reason to replace; you rarely see a frame that is rusted through (though every manufacturer has them). Every 5-8 years? Come on... How is that possible with and I quote from GM "More than half of light-duty pick-up trucks on the road are now 11 years or older." if they have frames that rust out in a 1/4 of the US every 5-8 years? Preventative maintenance goes a long way, even just spraying off the underside from time to time.

You can find rust complaints across all makers (Toyota, Ford, Dodge). I will take gladly take a frame that is submerged in an oily wax coating so it gets covered in all the nooks and crannies especially internally in a boxed frame than an external pretty paint job. If you drag your frame over a curb or rock both the painted and wax frames will have their coatings removed, it is easy to touch up both. What isn't easy is getting stuff inside the frame or in hard to reach areas that salt and corrosion sit and start the rusting process from inside.

Either way there are pros and cons to each but considering how long it has been used and how minimal the major failures are (taking the whole it doesn't look pretty out of the equation) the stuff works. Not to mention they continue to improve on it...

Tyler

You must be delusional. In Maine the wax is garbage, there is no excuse for how quickly GM truck frames rust thanks to this coating. My 2016 has seen two winters of plowing and it's rusting at all the edges and the frame looks brown everywhere else because the wax takes on the dirt/dust from driving on dirt roads somehow. My theory is its deliberate so that trucks need to be replaced every 10 years at most, otherwise this is 2018 and there has to be a better way to keep trucks from rusting this quickly.

Ultra54 · September 14, 2019

I can confirm, its wax and it is peeling of my brand new truck frame. I had as I always have my truck oil sprayed. To my delight you can now take your figure and simply wipe the wax to the bare metal. I am not happy and will likely get rid of it and never go back. I feel so stupid for trading my Titan for this right now.

Ken2019 · September 15, 2019

I checked with the local truck accessory store and they apply Wool Wax (like Fluid Film but thicker) there and they told me that Wool Wax doesn't play well with the coating that GM applies to the frames of the full size trucks. They said to come back in 5 years after GMs frame coating has dried out and then have it applied.

Here's a few pics of the frame on my 2008 Silverado with 61k miles on it. I don't have any pictures but the cab mounts on the drivers side are just about gone too. The wax coating totally failed. I should have been checking it over the years but I had a 99 Silverado for 10+ years and the frame with the wax coating was in good shape when I got rid of it so I didn't bother to take a good close look at the 08's frame until the shock mount broke off.

I have a used frame for the 08 that I sandblasted and painted and plan on swapping it next year... That is if I don't get tired of looking at it and throw it on Craigs List first

Left upper shock mount, or where it use to be

Gas tank crossmember.. The bracket that held the gas tank strap rotted away and the tank is being held in by one strap

Left leaf spring front mount

Right side shock mount

Truck with 61k miles on it not showing any signs of rust.

bed of the truck with no rust on it.

14SLE · September 15, 2019

I have a 2014 GMC SLE and live in Southern Ohio. I wash the underside of my truck after every salt application as soon as the temperature gets near or above the point where the water doesn't flash freeze. I have to go under the truck every summer with a wire brush and cans of Rust-oleum and spray undercoating. My wife thought I was crazy until I came inside with a large handful of flaking wax and told her that was the stuff protecting the frame of the truck.

I asked the dealer about the problem at an oil change--they told me that GM has offered no suggestions other than re-waxing the frame at the cost of about $1K. If it works as well as the factory stuff, it would NOT be worth the effort.

My wife is encouraging me to look at other manufacturers when I replace the truck. She is wise.

OnTheReel · September 15, 2019

My 2016 still looked like new underneath after three salty winters up in here in WI. Ran the truck through the wash weekly in the winter, with the underbody flush. Also went to the coin op a few times each season to do a deeper underbody cleaning.

Beyond that, I touched up the wax coating right away when I bought it, and then a couple times a year after with a $10 can of Daubert. Mainly the lift points and thin parts near the seams and edges. That’s really all I ever had to do and have been doing on my ‘19.

I know 2014 model year had some adhesion issues with the frame coating (bad prep if I remember reading right) which would have been taken care of under warranty with varying degrees of success.

But barring that, all of this stuff looks like a maintenance issue and/ or someone putting additional products on top of the coating which would soften and erode it, making things worse.

mwbutcher · September 30, 2019

On 5/7/2018 at 4:31 PM, L86 All Terrain said:

There is simply no defending Nox Rust. Especially if you experience a real winter. If it is "self-healing" I have yet to see it. About 5,000Miles on a gravel road and a winter will show you how well they "heal" and repel things. There is nothing left on the frames in two years. Now how do you prep and paint the inside of a rusty box frame? You can't. These boxed frames are super thin steel, once that coating is gone you will see frames rot out 20 times faster than the old channel frames. You will see the K2's and GMT900's have frames rot out before the powertrain dies in places like Minnesota or Ontario Canada. It is a cheap excuse for a proper coating. I have 23,000km on my 2015 that is garage parked, no gravel roads, never driven in rain and parked through the winter and even it has spot marks that I constantly touch up. I would happily pay $2k extra for a proper powdercoated frame that will last more than 8 years. They are building these trucks cheap now, so you have no choice but to buy one every 5-8 years. Sad but true.

Extra 2k......not me. I lease my trucks and could care less what the frames do after my 36 months are up...just sayin!

Arthur Harder · February 9, 2020

The answer is regular maintenance, wash the underside of the truck every time you wash the exterior & for a bare minimum go to a carwash where they have a chassis wash after every winter season. If you need to undercoat or any touch up use Amsoil MetalProtector HD, in my opinion better then Nox-Rust or FluidFilm. Durable, doesn’t wash off easily, , deadens noise, clear/yellowish color that blends in, paintable after fully cured, lubricates, rust inhibitors, penetrates without thinning or removing original factory wax undercoat(like FluidFilm) , draws the moisture out, easy to use 15oz. spray bottles.