Sugar Bears 2015 GMC Terrain SLE-2 2.4 AWD

KARNUT · March 21, 2023

15 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Sorry I don't know your first name so, good morning @newdude.

I own both a 2014 Buick Verano and a 2015 GMC Terrain with the LEA I-4 2400. The LEA is listed as an E-85 capable motor and yet neither vehicle is. I know that there is a different fuel pump requirement but what I do not know is if the alcohol sensors are already there, or at least the wiring for plug and pay, and fuel maps naturally. How difficult is converting these two to E-85 and would you provide a 'road map' to doing so?

Thanks for any assistance you are willing to provide.

Marty "Grumpy".

I don’t know if I missed it being mentioned or there hasn’t been a need for other maintenance items. Like CV joints, front end parts struts etc. The Honda for instance the timing belt is a high dollar item. Believe it or not it’s rare for me to go past 150K miles. As such I’ve never had breakdowns. The odyssey and Genesis experiment both at 120-130K miles. Both having maintenance work for higher mileage vehicles to keep them running well going on. The odyssey will owe me 8 months of service to break even on new car payments after brake work. The Genesis 6, soon needing it second set of brakes and transmission service adding months to break even with payments. See where I’m going with this? I see a lot of maintenance in your wife’s vehicle. What was the cost per month spread vs trading in at 100-150k miles?

Grumpy Bear · March 21, 2023

5 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I don’t know if I missed it being mentioned or there hasn’t been a need for other maintenance items. Like CV joints, front end parts struts etc. The Honda for instance the timing belt is a high dollar item. Believe it or not it’s rare for me to go past 150K miles. As such I’ve never had breakdowns. The odyssey and Genesis experiment both at 120-130K miles. Both having maintenance work for higher mileage vehicles to keep them running well going on. The odyssey will owe me 8 months of service to break even on new car payments after brake work. The Genesis 6, soon needing it second set of brakes and transmission service adding months to break even with payments. See where I’m going with this? I see a lot of maintenance in your wife’s vehicle. What was the cost per month spread vs trading in at 100-150k miles?

I do see where you are going. I look at repairs a bit differently. I let the Mrs. price the vehicle she would be driving IF she were to buy new one, we can afford and find that monthly payment. That number times 12 is my annual non-routine 'nut'.

Currently that number is about $9K a year. As long as I trust it, I'm breaking even. I don't count tires, brakes or anything that I'd replace or repair even if new. That is to say normal wear and tear items.

Brakes, tires and wheel bearings are the sum total so far. As you asked. It's been testy but not expensive...yet! :crackup:

KARNUT · March 21, 2023

28 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I do see where you are going. I look at repairs a bit differently. I let the Mrs. price the vehicle she would be driving IF she were to buy new one, we can afford and find that monthly payment. That number times 12 is my annual non-routine 'nut'.

Currently that number is about $9K a year. As long as I trust it, I'm breaking even. I don't count tires, brakes or anything that I'd replace or repair even if new. That is to say normal wear and tear items.

Brakes, tires and wheel bearings are the sum total so far. As you asked. It's been testy but not expensive...yet!

My number is 400$ per month before it gets replaced. Not counting oil and general maintenance. I’m 3 years without car payments. My wife’s car is 8 years without payments. Retired there will be no more than one car payment if any. I can drive a nice luxury car CPO for 500$ per month. So that’s what I use as a marker. The old family joke was if I bought new tires, it’s going to get traded in. For many years that was true.

diyer2 · March 22, 2023

We haven't had a car payment for 25 years.

KARNUT · March 22, 2023

7 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

We haven't had a car payment for 25 years.

My last several vehicles were 0 percent with discounts. So I made interest not paying cash. I don’t know if’s that’s possible now. So cash it would be.

diyer2 · March 22, 2023

My method if you must finance a vehicle.

Buy one that allows you to MAKE DOUBLE payments. The extra payment goes into a savings account used for the next vehicle purchase.

Eventually you can buy cash.

Grumpy Bear · March 22, 2023

Ethanol Blending

3/22/2023

On a 6-point moving average Dizzy has been on a diet of E-20 for 10 tanks and blending has been rock steady as my local 2 favorite stations are 75% E-85 year around. LTFT have risen but post cat O2 is on the mark. No MIL's. KR has been reduced but not totally eliminated and this has also helped keep cost in check. CPM is smaller than E-10 with current pricing.

A University of Nebraska study I posted in the Ethanol Fuel thread indicates that up to 30% may be tolerable in a non-FFV environment. In another link in that thread is a PDF of octane values based on blend gasoline initial octane. Point is at 20% and assuming lowest base fuel, the combine octane is currently 92/93 ish and I have trace KR on 7% grades into a wind. Just 2 degrees or so but.....

So, I drug out the Excell spreadsheet and did a bit of number crunching to find the maximum E85 percentage I can blindly charge when the tank number is unknow. I don't want to test every tank and this vehicle does not have on board content output via the ECU. Armed with the information that E-85 by definition is required by law to fall between 51% and 83%, I found that 25% E-85 to 75% E-10 87 from an unknown tank will provide a blend that falls between 19.5% and 27.5% for that range. My local tanks routinely, as stated earlier run 75% +/- 1% and on those pumps 25.5% ethanol would result.

This will buy me about 5 point of octane. PPG of fuel falls another 5 cents and the stress on the oil will be further reduced. I can take the hit on MPG and still manage to lower total fuel cost a cent or so a mile. (TBD). Most of the gains in economy on this chart are temperature driven. Warmer weather. The last two points of this chart are E-20. The last dot is incomplete data starting this new OCI and I will transition to E-25 during this cycle.

Knowing 2 key cycles with the LTFT or O2 past limits triggers a MIL and not having long term access to a scan tool I will use the lean code trigger as a bumper. I am trying to find the addresses for LTFT and STFT for my ScanGauge II.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Grumpy Bear

KARNUT · March 22, 2023

4 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

My method if you must finance a vehicle.

Buy one that allows you to MAKE DOUBLE payments. The extra payment goes into a savings account used for the next vehicle purchase.

Eventually you can buy cash.

My vehicle budget is such that I could pay cash for a Porsche SUV. I can only because I don’t. Well actually my wife’s vehicle budget. I’m probably approaching a base maverick. I’ll stick with the avalanche. For now.

diyer2 · March 22, 2023

I could buy a Porsche SUV, I have looked at used ones. I can't justify the cost to haul my butt around.

KARNUT · March 22, 2023

1 minute ago, diyer2 said:

I could buy a Porsche SUV, I have looked at used ones. I can't justify the cost to haul my butt around.

My favorite vehicle brand has become Hyundai-Kia. I bought the first one because of the warranty. My grandson drives it now. We’re on our fourth. I had two my wife still drives her second. Our next will be either a Stinger or a G-70. There’re discontinuing the stinger so probably the G-70. Awhile from now.

diyer2 · March 22, 2023

Very happy with our Hyundai 19 Santa Fe Ultimate, bought used with 22.5K.

Now 40K.

Edited March 22, 2023 by diyer2

Grumpy Bear · March 22, 2023

Ethanol LTFT/STFT

3/22/2023

Flurry of post for a flurry of activity.

Found the addresses for both fuel trims and the excess O2 reading.

After multiple tanks at 20% the LTFT settled in at +3% with a 2% swing and STFT a few percent either side of zero. O2 stayed in range. Needing 8 gallons of fuel I dosed it with the 25/75 blend (25.5%) diluted with what was there it comes in at 22.4% for the tank.

So with just a 2.4% change the trims headed 10-12% into negative territory. It will only go 25%. It's going to favor small moves changing up blends. In about 10 miles it was +7% LTFT and by home, 30 miles total around 5%. I'm sure it's not done adjusting yet but point is...it is and in the right direction on O2 alone.

On another note, testing the new smaller orifice shows all it good under the hood.

Late Note: 500-mile oil filter change.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Grumpy Bear
additional content

Grumpy Bear · March 24, 2023

200,776 Mile Observations

Second tank of 25% E85 / 75% E10 87. Tank alcohol content now 23.7%. I was correct. Fuel adjustments were not finished. LTFT running 3% again. STFT holding steady and O2 B1S1 showing normal upstream cat sensor activity. Cycling but it is starting to trend a bit higher (leaner).

Soon I will assault the I-39 hill at the Illinois river and check for KR. Weather last two tanks hasn't been much different and yet mpg is climbing. Yes, it's getting more road and less city work but normal for the season. That is, no different than last year. This graph is 60K miles and two summers, two winters.

Its nature is changing. Lively. Getting her Grrrrr back. :rolleyes:

newdude · March 24, 2023

On 3/21/2023 at 10:13 AM, Grumpy Bear said:

Sorry I don't know your first name so, good morning @newdude.

I own both a 2014 Buick Verano and a 2015 GMC Terrain with the LEA I-4 2400. The LEA is listed as an E-85 capable motor and yet neither vehicle is. I know that there is a different fuel pump requirement but what I do not know is if the alcohol sensors are already there, or at least the wiring for plug and pay, and fuel maps naturally. How difficult is converting these two to E-85 and would you provide a 'road map' to doing so?

Thanks for any assistance you are willing to provide.

Marty "Grumpy".

Let me see what I can find out on this.

At a quick glance, E85 on the Terrain/Equinox appears to be tied to the emissions code the vehicle is optioned with. Federal cars with emissions RPO NT7 show having factory flex fuel, but NU6 California optioned cars don't. But it appears just like Silverado/Sierra where you could simply cut part of the fuel feed line and splice in the flex sensor. If there isn't wiring, there are kits to add the sensor out there that come with alternate wiring to power the sensor up.

If the wiring were present but just capped off, then the ECM would just need to be accessed with HP Tuners and turn on the sensor and I think the tables for it.

Grumpy Bear · March 24, 2023

22 minutes ago, newdude said:

Let me see what I can find out on this.

At a quick glance, E85 on the Terrain/Equinox appears to be tied to the emissions code the vehicle is optioned with. Federal cars with emissions RPO NT7 show having factory flex fuel, but NU6 California optioned cars don't. But it appears just like Silverado/Sierra where you could simply cut part of the fuel feed line and splice in the flex sensor. If there isn't wiring, there are kits to add the sensor out there that come with alternate wiring to power the sensor up.

If the wiring were present but just capped off, then the ECM would just need to be accessed with HP Tuners and turn on the sensor and I think the tables for it.

If the wiring is present, where would I find it? Under hood, near the gas tank...? If it is/was an option, I would like to use al the GM parts. Even if I have to run a new fuel line.