Sugar Bears 2015 GMC Terrain SLE-2 2.4 AWD

[customboss]

Spot on Grumpy, I'll add I use Nicks ISO CERTIFIED service because he has an exclusive contract with the INDUSTRIAL lab Grumpy listed and they won't do business with anyone on automotive side except through Synthetic Advantage.  Nicks a long time Amsoil dealer and the fact he uses an independent lab says alot about his desire to get science to his customers regardless of what oil they use. 

 

As a former oil analyst myself  I cannot get KF, GC, a full FTIR JOAP, broad ICP wear testing, with physical properties of oil at 40C and 100 C and VI calc with TBN and Acid # formerly known as TAN anywhere else for this price.  

 

Go to any other lab you'd pay $250 or more for all that if certified to ISO 17025. 

 

As far as ISO cleanliness and particle counting it can be done through Nick but he isn't gonna do onesies on that since he'd have to set up an agreement with this exclusive lab. 

 

Bklabs won't do as much or as accurately and with modern engines if you don't do what Grumpy Bear stated on KF and GC with FTIR not to mention 40C vis, VI, TBN and AN on every Advanced.  

 

Bklabs does so little that I hesitate as a retired professional to use them for anything but wear readings.  

 

ALS, Intertek, and  Polaris labs that does many others house analysis are hit and miss on breadth of testing and every lab out there will take a week or longer to get you your results. Nick can get your results THE DAY IT HITS THE LAB.  Actionable and speedy data is key from my experience. 

 

 

[diyer2]

You are testing to solve a problem. 

If I understand oil tests, if I wanted to do one I would think for the average test Polaris Labs or Blackstone will do?

Polaris being better?

[customboss]

Just now, diyer2 said:

You are testing to solve a problem. 

If I understand oil tests, if I wanted to do one I would think for the average test Polaris Labs or Blackstone will do?

Polaris being better?

Think we posted at same time.  See my comments above.  I'll add none of those have a proper interpretation. If you get data and you can't understand or act on it why test? 

 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

170,000 Mile Service

 

5/11/2022

 

170,000 actual

1,434 miles this OCI

 

5 Quarts Kirkland 5W30 

No filter change.

 

Fuel Dilution got worse! 7.8% which is reflected in the viscosity measurements. Lab ran these numbers three time. 

She's turning a 5W30 into a 0W20 amazingly quick.

 

Remainder of this report is perfect. Absolutely perfect. Fuel efficiency is as good as it has ever been. 

 

Solved are oil consumption, poor combustion and wear associated with both. Fuel is a lingering issue. 

Not what I had hoped for. But where we are at. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Grumpy Bear

[mikef95]

Hi Grumpy bear,

First off I just want to say thanks for taking the time to write all of this up. It has been very imformative!

We also have a 2014 Equinox with the 2.4 engine that just hit 90k miles. We just brought it in for an oil change. They said it was down 1.5qt, and that the oil was extremely dirty. This was the first time we've noticed oil loss. We did unfortunately get the last oil change done at Monroe due to convenience, so there is a pretty high chance that they didn't actually change the oil and/or the filter. Needless to say we won't be going there again!

They want us to bring it back in 3k miles to check the condition and level of the oil. 

There was so much info in this thread I got a little lost. Is there anything I should be doing now to help this problem, or at least prevent it from getting worse? My mechanic said he did some research, looked at the TSB's etc. but this problem seems to be pretty complex. I would sell it but used car prices are crazy right now. We also already had to replace the tranny at 60k miles, so we're already $5k in the hole. Not sure what makes the most sense here. Mechanic said just replacing the pistons/rings doesn't make a lot of sense since this motor also has other issues (I.E. timing chain), and that we would probably be better off doing an engine swap. He said there's no need to rush into that and that we can just keep an eye on the oil level and condition until something catastrophic happens.

Thanks!

Mike

[diyer2]

 just keep an eye on the oil level and condition

Good advice.

[KARNUT]

I’ve had a few oil users over the years. Like most people I freaked out when discovered. Of course the first place I went to was the dealership. Much to my surprise one qt in a 1000 miles was still considered normal. I even added a super charger to one. The drivability would be my concern simply adding oil wouldn’t. It would be interesting to see the contrast in the way the op handle the usage. And someone who just added oil. I even had a vehicle that used a qt every 500 miles. 14 years later it’s still going. As for my other oil users I got a normal service life. 

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, mikef95 said:

Hi Grumpy bear,

First off I just want to say thanks for taking the time to write all of this up. It has been very imformative!

We also have a 2014 Equinox with the 2.4 engine that just hit 90k miles. We just brought it in for an oil change. They said it was down 1.5qt, and that the oil was extremely dirty. This was the first time we've noticed oil loss. We did unfortunately get the last oil change done at Monroe due to convenience, so there is a pretty high chance that they didn't actually change the oil and/or the filter. Needless to say we won't be going there again!

They want us to bring it back in 3k miles to check the condition and level of the oil. 

There was so much info in this thread I got a little lost. Is there anything I should be doing now to help this problem, or at least prevent it from getting worse? My mechanic said he did some research, looked at the TSB's etc. but this problem seems to be pretty complex. I would sell it but used car prices are crazy right now. We also already had to replace the tranny at 60k miles, so we're already $5k in the hole. Not sure what makes the most sense here. Mechanic said just replacing the pistons/rings doesn't make a lot of sense since this motor also has other issues (I.E. timing chain), and that we would probably be better off doing an engine swap. He said there's no need to rush into that and that we can just keep an eye on the oil level and condition until something catastrophic happens.

Thanks!

Mike

 

Morning Mike: 

 

Complex? Yes it is and there is no cheap answer to this problem. The dealer will want to do a ring job which will replace defective parts with more defective parts. Most notably pistons. Jasper Engines does a remanufactured motor with a Seal Power piston that fixes THAT issue and the timing chain issue as well IF that is also a problem for your year. If you have a 'trusted and proven' third party mechanic..... Last quote I had on the Jasper was roughly $5K on a pallet. You take it from there. Dealer factory reman was off the hook. 

 

Yes, trading in this environment is going to be harsh as well. Likely equal to the pain you've already suffered and are about to continue. 

 

Now that you know the cost of all that then the next wont seem so bad.  

 

See @Black02Silverado for access to a UAO. $158 for the full test doesn't sound so bad now does it? 

 

These motors start to use oil when the rings 'stick' and they stick for one of two reasons. Shellac which is mainly a fueling issue or sludge which is an OCI length AND/OR a plugged CCV orifice OR both. 

 

The problem with the wait and see while you just keep topping off is stuck rings are cylinder/piston killers. If you have some mechanical skills you can get them free with a KREEN purge BUT they will not stay free if everything else remains status quo. The Factory Top Soak does not go far enough and most dealers will not do it properly anyway. 

 

The UOA will also show combustion and fuel dilution. Even if you can't get the root issue straight away you can buy time. Get the rings free then shorten the OCI to the point indicated by UOA viscosity and fuel dilution. This will prevent relapse while you sort the rest of the issues it may have. IF you can't afford follow up UOA TUNER test which are less than half the full test price and give you what info you need for the next step then just consider 1,500 miles long enough based on my experience with Dizzy and 5%+ fuel dilution. But if you skip understand you are now flying blind. 

 

If I were doing this a second time this is the time I would do a compression test AFTER the rings are free and a CCV test. Caught early and good even compression you can continue. Caught late it's an engine rebuild/replace or chronic short OCI or shove it off a cliff. 

 

IF it passes the compression test then we can talk more. IF it passes the compression test but fails the CCV test we address that next. 

 

This may sound silly but the oil rings drain back is to small on this motor and plugs easy. Yes the Jasper piston swap will cure that and allow routines to be maintained BUT a quality lube on a shorter OCI will do the same thing AFTER all this is addressed and NICK can guide you there as well.  

 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Grumpy Bear

[mikef95]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Morning Mike: 

 

Complex? Yes it is and there is no cheap answer to this problem. The dealer will want to do a ring job which will replace defective parts with more defective parts. Most notably pistons. Jasper Engines does a remanufactured motor with a Seal Power piston that fixes THAT issue and the timing chain issue as well IF that is also a problem for your year. If you have a 'trusted and proven' third party mechanic..... Last quote I had on the Jasper was roughly $5K on a pallet. You take it from there. Dealer factory reman was off the hook. 

 

Yes, trading in this environment is going to be harsh as well. Likely equal to the pain you've already suffered and are about to continue. 

 

Now that you know the cost of all that then the next wont seem so bad.  

 

See @Black02Silverado for access to a UAO. $158 for the full test doesn't sound so bad now does it? 

 

These motors start to use oil when the rings 'stick' and they stick for one of two reasons. Shellac which is mainly a fueling issue or sludge which is an OCI length AND/OR a plugged CCV orifice OR both. 

 

The problem with the wait and see while you just keep topping off is stuck rings are cylinder/piston killers. If you have some mechanical skills you can get them free with a KREEN purge BUT they will not stay free if everything else remains status quo. The Factory Top Soak does not go far enough and most dealers will not do it properly anyway. 

 

The UOA will also show combustion and fuel dilution. Even if you can't get the root issue straight away you can buy time. Get the rings free then shorten the OCI to the point indicated by UOA viscosity and fuel dilution. This will prevent relapse while you sort the rest of the issues it may have. IF you can't afford follow up UOA TUNER test which are less than half the full test price and give you what info you need for the next step then just consider 1,500 miles long enough based on my experience with Dizzy and 5%+ fuel dilution. But if you skip understand you are now flying blind. 

 

If I were doing this a second time this is the time I would do a compression test AFTER the rings are free and a CCV test. Caught early and good even compression you can continue. Caught late it's an engine rebuild/replace or chronic short OCI or shove it off a cliff. 

 

IF it passes the compression test then we can talk more. IF it passes the compression test but fails the CCV test we address that next. 

 

This may sound silly but the oil rings drain back is to small on this motor and plugs easy. Yes the Jasper piston swap will cure that and allow routines to be maintained BUT a quality lube on a shorter OCI will do the same thing AFTER all this is addressed and NICK can guide you there as well.  

 

 

Awesome, thanks for all that info! I'll look into getting the UAO done.

So if I'm understanding correctly... The UAO will help show how bad my issue is currently. If it shows an issue I need to do a kreen cleaning to hopefully unstick the rings. Is the kreen cleaner something my mechanic should be able to get? I know you said it was tough to source. If not is there anything comparable that will work?

 

Thanks,

Mike

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, mikef95 said:

Awesome, thanks for all that info! I'll look into getting the UAO done.

So if I'm understanding correctly... The UAO will help show how bad my issue is currently. If it shows an issue I need to do a kreen cleaning to hopefully unstick the rings. Is the kreen cleaner something my mechanic should be able to get? I know you said it was tough to source. If not is there anything comparable that will work?

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

Kano Products KREEN can be found on line. Your mechanic has a business license that will make getting easier. 

 

That first UOA tells you a story and then you start peeling the onion from there. UOA and critical thinking  I'm right here. 

[mikef95]

15 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Kano Products KREEN can be found on line. Your mechanic has a business license that will make getting easier. 

 

That first UOA tells you a story and then you start peeling the onion from there. UOA and critical thinking  I'm right here. 

Awesome, thanks!

We just got an oil change, so I'll try to get the UOA done on the next one and let you know the findings.

[mikef95]

17 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Kano Products KREEN can be found on line. Your mechanic has a business license that will make getting easier. 

 

That first UOA tells you a story and then you start peeling the onion from there. UOA and critical thinking  I'm right here. 

I've also started noticing a rattling sound on startup. It only happens when the engine is cold (I.E. after sitting over night), and it only lasts about 2-5 seconds. A lot of posts online say this could be the timing chain or VVT solinoids. I asked the shop about this and they said they don't think it's the timing chain since the noise isn't constant and goes away pretty quickly. What are your thoughts?

[Grumpy Bear]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:30 AM, mikef95 said:

I've also started noticing a rattling sound on startup. It only happens when the engine is cold (I.E. after sitting over night), and it only lasts about 2-5 seconds. A lot of posts online say this could be the timing chain or VVT solinoids. I asked the shop about this and they said they don't think it's the timing chain since the noise isn't constant and goes away pretty quickly. What are your thoughts?

 

No idea. They are a noisy motor even when they are running well. IMHO of course. 

[Grumpy Bear]

EVAP System

 

5/25/2022

171,650 miles

1,650 this OCI . No  adds, color is good. Really good. 

 

Removed the purge valve and tested it. Small and I mean really small leak so replaced it. Took 15 minutes to loose seal. No, no codes tripped but it started randomly blowing back on fill up.  Replaced gas cap as well as it was no longer snug when closed. As weather allows will be testing the canister, purge valve and changing the purge filter. (Ramps and rain) 

[Grumpy Bear]

EVAP System Complete

 

5/26/2022

 

I suspect my vacuum pump is leaking. So retested the purge valve with a bubbler....no leak. 

 

Well that wasn't fun You're taking the canister out, want to or not. Thing is built like Leggo toys and the purge valve is between the canister and truck floor. No real way to "test the vent valve' seal individually, you can only cycle it hearing it click so that got replaced as well. Broke the harness lock in the process.   Valve, filter and canister in that order daisy chained together. Filter was not restricted. 

 

Canister was not plugged and had zero gasoline in it. Didn't even have a smell while doing a purge air regeneration. That got reused as did all the hoses. Other than MAYBE the gas cap, this was a waste of time and money. 

 

Okay not a total waste. It eliminated a possibility. 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Grumpy Bear