Sugar Bears 2015 GMC Terrain SLE-2 2.4 AWD

[customboss]

1 hour ago, diyer2 said:

I believe we have been down this road before. I will guy Goodyear blades at Costco on sale, $8 I think the last time I bought them. 

Like all things we all have our ways and means. 

Our vehicles are garaged so this may help with deterioration, no sun. They last me a year.

Costco for me is 2 hour drive so living so isolated has its costs. 

 

How much do you pay for a subscription or membership per year? 

[Grumpy Bear]

18 minutes ago, customboss said:

Costco for me is 2 hour drive so living so isolated has its costs. 

 

How much do you pay for a subscription or membership per year? 

 

$60 I believe but I get an additional 4% off the already cheap gas too.  

[customboss]

6 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

$60 I believe but I get an additional 4% off the already cheap gas too.  

Best I can do here is Monte Vista,CO  CO-OP and get 3.48% off really expensive but well blended gasoline from CENEX.    $100 membership for family for life.  5% off in farm store supplies but they ain't no COSTCO.  LOL  

Edited March 31, 2022 by customboss
add discount

[KARNUT]

Ok, people are going to say BS I understand. My wife’s Acura is an 01 stays in the garage. Her 11 Genesis gets driven daily. The CRV was garaged until a year ago now is our trip car. It sits outside. They get inspected yearly and the wipers are checked. The wipers chatter sometimes on the Genesis but they still wipe fine. I've been on several road trips in the CRV they work like new. They are all original. I have no problem spending the money. I don’t like to fix something that ain’t broke. 

[diyer2]

$120 year for executive. We just got a check for $973 from them.

[customboss]

11 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

$120 year for executive. We just got a check for $973 from them.

Rebate or why a return check?  We get a CO-OP annual patronage check as do the producers. Its taxable though. 

[Grumpy Bear]

29 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

$120 year for executive. We just got a check for $973 from them.

Yes yes your right. We bought the next level down. We got a check for about $500 the last few years. Nothing wrong with COSTCO fuel. 

[Black02Silverado]

We have Costco as well and have their Visa card.  Got $500 cash back from what we spent on the card last year and $430 back this year. 

We get 4% on gas purchases at any gas station

3% back on restaurants and eligible travel

2% back on purchases at Costco and Costco.com

1% back on everything else.

 

So we pay our insurances with the card, fuel, and pretty much anything else. We shop at Costco a bunch for most of our produce and a few cooking things.  Plus some frozen stuff.  Doesn't take long and it adds up.  Wish the Costco here had diesel but they don't, just Top Tier gasoline.

 

As for wipers.  Up until last year my vehicles were garage kept and the wipers lasted a long time.  Matter of fact, my 2019 Silverado that I got in Jan of 19 still has the factory blades.  I've had good luck with Trico Tru fit.  I tried the Michelin's from Costco that were on sale for $5 and they were trash.  Left streaks.

[Grumpy Bear]

166,409 Service Notes

 

4/5/2022

1,500 miles this OCI

Kirkland 5W30 No additives, No oil adds!

Full, sweet (no odor) and slick. 

 

 

It's history (seen below) has been to use roughly a 1/2 Pint by now.

Color/odor has/have been horrid and lubricity broken (by feel between the fingers).

This is a marked improvement....so far.......but it's been a few years since we got this far.

 

 

New fuel injectors were received Saturday but as of this post we are still not on the shops schedule.

My man is busy and his health poor of late.

We will get there.  

 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

Reading Lessons

 

4/6/2022

 

     Look closely at he hashed area and you will observe three columns of diamonds. The center column has a pencil line drawn at the bottom of the second diamond. This is a measured 3 ounces from full. Two more down is 6 ounces. Measured. Two more is 9 ounces. Yes Measured. Past that this does not hold true and I don't care. I never let it get that low. That is half way down the hashed area. There are internal structures that prevent linear measurements below 1/2 the observable stamped range.  Yes this requires a constant reference and that is my drive. 

 

     We are now at 1,750 miles and it hasn't  moved off the full mark. Hasn't lost any. Hasn't gained any. Just full. I drew a sample today of exactly 3 ounces and added back exactly 3 ounces to return to the full mark. 

 

     During this time it has consumed 59.993 gallons, metered by the pump over the same 1751 miles. Observing the rule of engineering that stipulates that 'normal' consumption for this class ICE would be between .03% and .05% of fuel the expected usage would be between 2.22 and 3.69 ounces. Given my observable resolution is about 0.75 ounce or the point of the off diamond or 1/2 one diamond usage has been something far short of this. I'm calling 1/2 of 1/2 as none is impossible and would lead to conclusion perfect seals are possible and they are not. But this one....presently.....is pretty close. 

 

     That the case the actual rate is something along the lines of .005%. Pretty low and on par with my best motors. 

 

     So much for "The rings are just worn out" or "You can't use a dipstick to measure usage". Anyway......it's still early in this cycle and we still do not have a shop date for the injector replacement. 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Grumpy Bear

[Grumpy Bear]

Presentation of the Data Collected

4/7/2022 166,666 miles. 

Nobody designs a four stroke motor to use excessive oil. However some oil consumption will occur if everything is getting lubricated. There are no perfect seals in ICE's. Engineers like cushions to hedge their bets and this is represented in the GREEN bar in the graph below along with the design boundary limits. Reasonable expectation is required if one is to know when the unit is in trouble. In Dizzy's case this would be a quart between 15,000 and 25,000 miles based on 29 mpg.

 

The BLUE bar is the point at which GM would be wiling to effect a warranty repair on this particular unit based on a quart in 2,000 miles when getting 29 MPG. This is topping off a half quart every fuel stop. 

 

The RED bar is this unit with stuck rings using oil fast enough that use of a great product for freeing stuck rings (RESTORE) becomes untenable.  Designed for Commercial Diesel motors that hold 50 to 60 quarts the loss of a quart or two is manageable. Not so much in a 5 quart system at a cost of over $16 a quart. I'll come back to this later. 

 

The YELLOW bar is how this unit is currently performing after a severe solvent cleaning and top end soak. 

 

(Newer chart available)

 

When you get a cold and are running a fever you may take an aspirin to relieve that symptom but it does not cure the cold. 

 

Getting rings free does not cure the 'root cause' the rings stuck to begin with. Unless that is addressed this is a short term solution to a terminal condition. 

 

Based on an SAE Paper (450220) varnish and sludge are formed at three temperature zones. Low, medium and high. Low zone is normally a failure of the crankcase vent system and those deposits are 'relatively soft'. Medium temperature deposits are fuel related and a bit harder and high temperature deposits are actual oil decomp products and very hard. As one can imagine the softer the deposit the easier it is to remove and the shorter the time to do it. 

 

The RESTORE product is a chemistry that puts deposits in solution 'over time'. Thus both a solvent and a diluent with a good deal of dispersant to assure that result. But it takes time. As I was reminded, "It took 80K miles to muck it up, you wont clean it in 3000". Which is about as long as I could bear the $$$$ pain of continuous make up additions. 

 

To free the rings I used a product called Kano KREEN and yes for the second time. (Makers of Kroil) First go was a maintenance dose of a pint to 5 quarts over 300 miles which didn't do much but clean the fresh side breather and valve cover.

 

This time I did the full KREEN PURGE. That is an once per cylinder soaked overnight (after tuning the motor over a few revolutions) and a QUART in on top of 5 quarts of oil, a quart overfull, run at idle for 30 minutes and hot dump. This product contains MEK (on the SDS) and what smells like ACETONE (not listed, sweet smell). Hum...same solvents I use to use to clean lab glass after the D-86 distillation of gasoline. Some very hard deposits.

 

Important note here. I did this 30 minute purge in 5 quarts of NEW oil. Not at the end of an OCI where I would have the maximum concentration of DISPERSANT. Don't cheap out. 

 

I hope that I've covered all 'root cause' bases by modifying the breather system which I believe is the MAJOR culprit and correcting combustion issues as well. Some still in process. When I have conformation that the combustion and excess fuel issues are under control I will finish this job with "CUMMINS PREMIMUM BLUE 10W30 RESTORE".  This will require some additional UOA's. 

 

Until I have that conformation it will be 2500 mile OCI's on Kirkland Signature 5W30 or SUPERTECH as supply will permit. COSTCO has been out of supply for a month now. 

 

Okay some notes.

 

1.) MEK is harsh and given enough exposure will dry and harden seals. Exposure is a combination of CONCENTRATION and TIME. Use according to directions and it will never be an issue. Mother use to wet her fingers and QUICKLY touch an Iron hot enough to cause third degree burns. Did it for 70 years without so much as a Boo Boo. Kano Products have been around a long time and have this down to a science. Literally.

 

2.) Do NOT go on the cheap and dump MEK or any other flammable in the crankcase.

 

3.) GM has a top end soak. It works but it does not go far enough nor is often used correctly even by the GM Goodwrench Team. 

 

4.) I've used other 'flushes'. Some top self stuff than will not touch these deposits. Including BG EPR and GUNK and ....... it's a long list. Most of these are viscosity breakers. Kerosene and mineral spirits type products. They make money not results.

 

5.) SAE 45220 is a paper written in 1945 and it is STILL the way this works. Spend the $35 bucks and read it.  You let me know if you find a newer SAE TECH paper on this topic that says other. 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Grumpy Bear

[diyer2]

So the Kreen Purge worked the best? 

[newdude]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

4.) I've used other 'flushes'. Some top self stuff than will not touch these deposits. Including BG EPR and GUNK and ....... it's a long list. Most of these are viscosity breakers. Kerosene and mineral spirits type products. They make money not results.

 

 

 

Grumpy.  Out of curiosity, have you tried the BG Dynamic Engine Cleaner and Rinse Oil setup?  BG Dynamic Engine Cleaner & Rinse Oil | BG Products, Inc.

 

I don't have first hand experience with this one yet, but do have experience with EPR as we have their products at work.  The way I get it from the rep, EPR is intened to be  more of a maintenance type product, every 15,000mi.  MOA is their additive every oil change.  Dynamic Engine Restore is a more in depth cleaner, so for a high mileage vehicle that has never received any treatments beyond oil changes.

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, diyer2 said:

So the Kreen Purge worked the best? 

 

It worked as advertised. So yes. Dramatically so. After using it and watching it work I'd bet hard on it working in the first two cases of varnish. May not in an overheated motor that literally cindered the oil. 

 

59 minutes ago, newdude said:

 

 

Grumpy.  Out of curiosity, have you tried the BG Dynamic Engine Cleaner and Rinse Oil setup?  BG Dynamic Engine Cleaner & Rinse Oil | BG Products, Inc.

 

I don't have first hand experience with this one yet, but do have experience with EPR as we have their products at work.  The way I get it from the rep, EPR is intended to be  more of a maintenance type product, every 15,000mi.  MOA is their additive every oil change.  Dynamic Engine Restore is a more in depth cleaner, so for a high mileage vehicle that has never received any treatments beyond oil changes.

 

 

Never even heard of it sir. Seems they have a flavor for everything. My local guy never mentioned it.  (Not Deegan). A guy I used before Deegan whose backbone of business was BG products. He was willing to re-ring it however. Everyone was except GM that would but on my dime and only IF oil usage hit the unbelievable. 

 

For quite some time I searched for a products that would free stuck oil rings and we tried a few that made such claims. Remember TRIAX S-7? Only one outside GM & Kano products that would even make such a claim. We used the GM top soak twice with hit and miss results the lasted less than an oil change. I didn't even know about KREEN for quite some time. 

 

I ran across several places that mentioned KREEN and dismissed it without even trying it due to the nature of the chemistry. Found one place that tired it but not according to directions for the same fears and no joy. BITOG flatly condemned it as Snake Oil. YouTube is full of concoctions that free frozen pistons in bores. Dad use to do it with Kroil, Marvel and Kerosene. Takes weeks sometimes but eventually they came free but nothing that just said...I tried XYZ and it worked when used as instructed to free rings in a running motor. This would be me doing THAT right now. Stuff works when used as directed. 

 

RESTORE was the exception to the Marketing noise. Not just claims it works. Proved it but my first go at it....well....I've covered that ground already twice. I just don't have a 15 gallon sump and an endless bank account. 

 

Here's the thing guys. MARKETING and BENCH EXPERTS had me so fearful of even trying KREEN that I had to reach that place in my mind where the next step was a new motor or pushing off a cliff. Last ditch effort wherein it is fine to ruin the motor in a failed attempt. Expecting it to fail actually.  

 

I finally found a photo on line of the KREEN label and read it. Well that was different than as used on YouTube. Go figure. My experience with Kroil plus the 'nothing to loose' mode had me all in even at the HUGE price of materials. Way cheaper than a motor. Sourcing it was a bigger issue. AMAZON requires a business license to buy. I was able to find some at an AVIATION supply outlet. 

 

It in no way surprises me that now that I have the issue solved a myriad of products will make the claim to do the same:

 

"Just as good and cheaper"

 

Just how fear marketing works.

 

The time to speak up was 80,000 miles and four years ago when I first started to wrestle this bear. 

 

 

This is important and needs repeating. Freeing these rings WITHOUT solving the ROOT CAUSE fixes nothing. I needed more than a product. I needed a solution for the root causes. 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[newdude]

35 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

This is important and needs repeating. Freeing these rings WITHOUT solving the ROOT CAUSE fixes nothing. I needed more than a product. I needed a solution for the root causes. 

 

 

 

That...that would require building and engineering things right the first time...LOL.