Sugar Bears 2015 GMC Terrain SLE-2 2.4 AWD

garagerog · August 3, 2021

Hi Grumpy, I've been following this thread with interest as my wife has a 17 Nox LT with the 2.4L. We bought new in Feb. 2017. I would have preferred the 3.6 but they were just not available and besides I couldn't beat the deal on this one, with GM incentives and my GM card earnings the MSRP of over 27K we were out the door at right around 20K before trade and T and T. I was hesitant to wait for a 18, new model year and turbos. Anyhow, I frequent the Equinox/Terrain forums to try to stay ahead of major problems with the 2.4L. Common problems I'm seeing with normal maintenance are VVT solenoids need to be replaced around 70K, cracked exhaust manifold and timing chain set,cam gears and guides all at around 90-100k. Also plugged PCV orfice at around 70k and those in cold climates can and will experience real main seal blowout and if the motor isn't immediately shut down they will also have the added expense of timing chain replacement. Haven't really seen any oil comsumption problems on the newer 2.4s. Wife's car only has about 35K on it so far but has been absolutely flawless, no annoying rattles or anything and has only been to the dealer twice for the 2 free oil changes. I've been doing the oil changes myself and I purchased the Lisle 32mm oil filter socket, perfect fitment. I've been around 4000 mile OCI's, sometimes a little more or less. I try and get as much old oil out however, overnight drain and clean out the filter compartment as best I can, first tried using compressed air but that made a mess underneath so have just been using paper towels, been thinking I should find a plastic hose that will fit the oil drain plug snugly as the compressed air does a better job. I'm 72 years old with arthritis so I'm afraid my DIY auto maintenance days are rapidly approaching an end. We live in SC where freezing temps are rare and with the Nox garage kept and low miles I haven't been worried about the PCV blockage yet so I haven't yet used the GM FC219 vented oil cap, might be something to keep in mind for the future tho. One other thing I've seen recently of interest on that forum is collapsed oil filters and some have said that's an indication of excessive blow by (plugged PCV orfice?). Have you had to replace your VVT solenoids yet? If not there's another indication of the EXCELLENT job you're doing with the oil and engine maintenance as I believe their life is dependent on clean oil. If you've posted the transmission maintenance I missed it, did you have a flush done or just drain and fills? One other thing you might be interested in, Nox and Terrains built before Aug 16 are prone to wiper motor failure, there is a TSB out on it and if you experience this you might be able to get GM to fix it for you for free. Sorry for the long ramble.

garagerog · August 3, 2021

Grumpy, there were a few other things I forgot to mention. Apparently the 2.4's are not the only ones prone to timing chain issues, some of the newer V-6's are also prone to them too. If GM would have only stuck with the tried and true pushrod 3800 for the passenger vehicles. The Generation III 3800 had the lower intake manifold gasket issue ironed out and was indestructible, even the supercharged ones. I did see on the Nox forum where a couple of guys had made it to over 300,000 miles on their 2.4's. One of them to 333k and this was on a 2012 probably before the piston ring redesign without major engine issues until he had to have a water pump replaced and he was starting to use 2-3 quarts of oil in 5000 miles, no more posts after that so I assume he moved onto to something else. So I can think you can reach or even exceed that with your excellent maintenance if you choose to do so. I've been using the AC-Delco synthetic oil and AC-Delco filters and will do so until the powertrain warranty is up (this coming Feb.) After that I'll be using the Purolator One filter due to your recommendation, haven't decided on a oil yet, but it won't be a boutique one. Once my DIY oil change days are over I'll just take my oil and filter in to a local shop and have them do it. Again sorry for the rambling.

Grumpy Bear · August 3, 2021

5 hours ago, garagerog said:

I haven't yet used the GM FC219 vented oil cap,

4 hours ago, garagerog said:

Again sorry for the rambling.

Roger ramble all you like : (Proverbs 9:8,9)

Do not reprove a ridiculer, or he will hate you.

Reprove a wise person, and he will love you.

Share with a wise person, and he will become wiser.

I'm still working on that first line but the rest was written just for me. I love learning new things. Especially learning correctly second what I've learned wrong first. I don't mind being taught. Please....feel free....

Besides, you are a great read and I learn every time you speak.

So...GM FC219 is a vented cap and that is the part number I will need?

General Motors 12589430 AKA FC219 2 ordered.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

garagerog · August 3, 2021

Yes Grumpy, that's the AC-Delco part number, available from your dealer or even on Amazon probably cheaper as long as you trust the seller isn't selling a Chinese knock off. There are other alternatives I've read about CFM makes a billet breather cap that replaces the stock oil cap for about $80, ZZZ performance sells a cheapo plastic one for about $20. I have no idea if a fully vented cap would effect fuel trims or anything else. There is another company out there that sells a vented cap that vents at a lower pressure than the GM FC219 but I couldn't find the name of it, it's expensive too and there have been some complaints of fitment issues. And others concerned that they couldn't blow thru the FC219 and worried if vented at to high of a pressure have made their own by drilling a hole in the stock cap, using a check ball and spring setup using a variety of lightweight springs sourced at their local hardware store to find the one that vented when they blew thru the cap. I haven't seen anyone complain of a rear seal blowout using the FC219, so I'm sure it would work fine. Thanks for the compliment, and I've learned a lot more from you than you will ever learn from me, of that I'm sure.

Grumpy Bear · August 3, 2021

5 minutes ago, garagerog said:

Yes Grumpy, that's the AC-Delco part number, available from your dealer or even on Amazon probably cheaper as long as you trust the seller isn't selling a Chinese knock off. There are other alternatives I've read about CFM makes a billet breather cap that replaces the stock oil cap for about $80, ZZZ performance sells a cheapo plastic one for about $20. I have no idea if a fully vented cap would effect fuel trims or anything else. There is another company out there that sells a vented cap that vents at a lower pressure than the GM FC219 but I couldn't find the name of it, it's expensive too and there have been some complaints of fitment issues. And others concerned that they couldn't blow thru the FC219 and worried if vented at to high of a pressure have made their own by drilling a hole in the stock cap, using a check ball and spring setup using a variety of lightweight springs sourced at their local hardware store to find the one that vented when they blew thru the cap. I haven't seen anyone complain of a rear seal blowout using the FC219, so I'm sure it would work fine. Thanks for the compliment, and I've learned a lot more from you than you will ever learn from me, of that I'm sure.

We'll see when it arrives. Amazon was by far the cheapest. See what packaging it arrives in.

Snooping around some I see Cowpie aka Cliff (goes by Copperhead there) on that Terrain site. He bought and tried the CFM unit and condemned it. Nothing there for me to try if he says 'junk'. I saw the home made spring check...yea....there is always some pressure in the case. I'm betting GM has it figured out. I also saw a TSB for the orifice style on the V8's and this part number was listed as the "to prevent further' solution straight from GM itself. SOLD!! :crackup:

It doesn't fix the problem but prevents catastrophic failure of the rear main seal. This is going to be a series of short 'work arounds' for a poorly designed system. We have more than one thing going on with this motor and some of it unique to the northern climates. You think my OCI is short now? Wait till this winter. It will feel like 1955 all over again.

Grumpy Bear · August 5, 2021

144,431 Service

8/5/2021

Install General Motors 12589430 AKA FC219 vented cap.

Put the other on the Sugar Bears Verano

1,114 miles and still full.

I know have everything needed for home oil change on this vehicle and her Buick.

(Photo Coloradofans.com)

Thank You Roger!!

Lots of considerations for this motor. Jasper Engines now has it's own piston and ring set they use in all stock rebuilds. Hard anodized top ring land and crown. Graphite coated skirt. 300% more oil drain back area behind the control ring. There's a hint. So the oil needs to be clean...really clean. Check

1.) Short OCI's

2.) High detergent oil. High as I can find or blend.

Winter operation requires frequent cleaning of the clean side tubing and filter chamber. These motors have a weak vent system and do not tolerate moisture in the oil at all.

1.) Winter even SHORTER OCI's

2.) Watch and clean clean air side AND oil filler cap vent

Here's a head scratcher I found from a guy who did a full pressure study of these motors. The harder you run them the weaker the vent system becomes. That throttle position needs to stay low and average vacuum high. This is mainly a winter time thing below 10 F. He recommends if you short trip, fail to warm completely:

https://www.terrainforum.net/threads/actual-crankcase-pressure-testing-on-the-2-4l.29215/

1.) Really REALLY short winter OCI's

2.) A long warm up with a minimum of 25 miles AT TEMPERATURE or

3.) Even shorter OCI's and weekly/daily cleaning of the vent tube and cap (Great Job GM)

4.) Do what you can to keep engine load low and vacuum high.

He never quantifies what 'short' means to him but a good educated guess would be when a Karl Fisher is showing about 300 ppm moisture at whatever conditions you are entertaining. That's a tough one for GDI in the winter. But more than this starts the white snot syndrome.

Just me thinking out loud. Input welcome

On 8/3/2021 at 10:26 AM, garagerog said:

Have you had to replace your VVT solenoids yet?

Yes and on schedule. Timing chain however is going strong. Yes, the vent was drilled once and mechanical cleaning of inlet valves was required. Rings freed several times as I learn to manage varnish in this beast.

Grumpy Bear · August 10, 2021

8/10/2021

144,817 miles

We get to do something normal. Fix the alignment. Yea, it's 'in spec' but it still isn't right and my buddy John knows it. Near a full degree negative camber in all four corners. You can't rotate that out of tire wear. Also a tire rotation.

IF weather permits and IF it get Dizzy back today then I do the oil change and install a Valvomax. COSTCO/TRIAX S7 and Purolator filter.

At a dead 1,500 miles today when I filled up and on the full mark. This is the point I normally have to add 8 ounces so.....

No snot in the rocker cover/cap. No weepy seals or gaskets. Nothing in the fresh air side.

Over the last 5K miles has averaged 28.3 mpg. Even with Mama Bear driving. I'm hopeful.

**********************************

We start making the 150K services work list now.

1.) Brake flush

2.) Trans service

3.) Coolant flush and exchange along with a new thermostat, hoses as required.

Naturally an:

4.) oil change

5.) cabin and air inlet filter

6.) tire balance and rotate.

Look like I am missing anything?

Edited August 10, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · August 10, 2021

8/10/2021 Attempted Maintenance.

That went south faster than a rock drop in a well. There are provisions for rear camber adjustment. GM just didn't put the parts in. Ordered camber kits. "KITS". Really?

Up front GM was happy it was 'in spec' even if at the very edge of spec and provides no adjustment for either castor or camber other that shop notes on grinding slots in the struts and upper bearing mounts IF it goes out "due to a collision".

So parts ordered and a third run at this. It WILL get right if I have to remanufacture the entire truck.

Ordered a new parking brake cable as it is out of adjustment. Wait....tires did get rotated. Yippie!!

I am way to stubborn to drop this thing off a cliff. :crackup: Let's see GM sell me an electric car/truck/lunchbox/cloths pin

garagerog · August 10, 2021

Grumpy, at what mileage did you change the spark plugs? Just curious. Wife's car is a long ways from needing it yet, but I'll probably change out the VVT solenoids at around 70k and do the plugs at the same time although I'm sure they could go further.

Grumpy Bear · August 10, 2021

2 hours ago, garagerog said:

Grumpy, at what mileage did you change the spark plugs? Just curious. Wife's car is a long ways from needing it yet, but I'll probably change out the VVT solenoids at around 70k and do the plugs at the same time although I'm sure they could go further.

Go to page 4 and the 100K service for detail Roger. But that is when the plugs were changed the first time. I think again at 115K when the top end cleaning was done. Pictures of that service available in that post. Page 5 or 6.

VVT solenoids were replace at 100K as well. Failed coils in this instance on one cam but replaced both units anyway. Screens were passable.

garagerog · August 11, 2021

Ok Grumpy, I went back and read it, picked up some of the transmission service intervals also. Will continue to follow this thread with interest, thanks!

Grumpy Bear · August 11, 2021

7 minutes ago, garagerog said:

Ok Grumpy, I went back and read it, picked up some of the transmission service intervals also. Will continue to follow this thread with interest, thanks!

Just don't repeat my mistakes Roger.

Grumpy Bear · August 12, 2021

145,000 Mile Services

8/12/2021

2015 Terrain SLE 2.4-six speed AWD

144,969 actual

1652 miles OCI

4.5 Quarts Kirkland 5W30

0.5 Quarts TRIAX S7 ( 9:1 mix)

1 Purolator Pure One PL15436 Filter

0 ounces of make up oil.

I'm calling this one a quart in 20K ++

This would be better than the engineering standard for this fuel consumed standard of 2.5 to 4 ounces or 0.03% to 0.05% of the fuel used over this OCI.

I also found every ounce of oil in the system and the overfill root cause. Haste!

After draining the pan to a slow drip I reinstalled the drain plug and changed the filter. Just like the shops do. Used a turkey baster to suck the oil from the filter housing and was pleasantly surprised to note it was only about 2 ounces. This might be because I change oil on ramps and not the lift tilting the housing toward the drain. I was equally happy to find the filter casing squeaky clean. Like new clean.

Then I pulled the plug again and removed a measured full pint when added to the two ounces sucked from the filter canister. This is added to the first measured drop means I took out about 2 ounces more than the fill call out of 5 quarts. Remember that the last change a full measured pint was withheld thus we accounted for all oil and have a measured usage of for all intent and purpose of nil over this OCI.

Installed the Valvomax drain after assuring I had enough height to get the container under her. Torqued to 216 in/lbs.

Am I ready to call TRIAX S7 the end all be all of ring cleaners? No but it is better than anything else that has been tried and shows measurable improvement in both oil consumption and fuel consumption. I'm pretty happy with it. It's also the easies to use.

So...why not? Because we did two top end soaks that also showed marked improvement so question left hanging is..."Would the TRIAX S7 do the job without the top end soak OR is it just a great clean up batter

I'm going to go 2,500 for the next two OCI's then once on even numbers lower the distance to 2,000 miles. Then watch it like a hawk over the winter months.

I'm buying the TRIAX in large enough quantities to get a discount and free shipping. I save the pint of Kirkland thus a free 5 quart jug ever 10 changes. This gives me an oil cost of $23.48 per change "all in" and a detergent/WA package equal to Red Line HP and use at an OCI short enough it doesn't matter the base is mineral oil based "marketing synthetic".

$4.70 a quart!! Even at 2,000 OCI's I'm break even and the motor seems happy. I like happy motors.

Grumpy Bear · August 13, 2021

8/13/2021 Operational Notes:

Installed a Linear Logic ScanGauge II. Will take a few tanks to calibrate the fuel PID's. I was more interested in the MAP sensor readings.

I found out today that this motor is not capable of running 70 mph into a light headwind with the AC on while maintaining a negative crankcase pressure. That would be a mild days drive for Sugar Bear. Under these conditions the MAP runs 13.8 to 14.2 with todays BAR of 14.2. THIS is how the flow gets reversed in the fresh air tube dumping snot into the air box then freezing in the winter. Okay I don't run the AC in the winter but you get the point. It has a maximum load that it can pull while keeping the case under vacuum.

It will run 60 mph and keep the MAP between 11 and 13. It will run 55 in M5 at over 30 mpg while holding a MAP between 6 and 9. I don't expect this would be true in the Verano with it's much smaller and slicker bodywork. This applies to the 2.4 in a Terrain.

Just like Pepper. Log as I learn.

Grumpy Bear · August 15, 2021

8/15/2021 Operational Notes:

We ran a 300+ mile loop yesterday reflected in the last two tanks on this chart plus a hundred or so from the previous day.

First was secondary roads, light wind at our back most of the distance. 3/5 mph wind and 70/75 F day. Pretty! M5 between 45 mph (rural blacktop) and 53/55 mph (highways) along with towns and construction. It also included about half that tank in bunny hopping errands the day before. NO AC.

The trip back was 7 mph wind on the nose, 45% as above but the remainder Interstate between 55 (construction) and 58/62 MPH, AC on AC off. M5 on grades that put MAP over 13.5, M6 other. WOW! I was not expecting that at all. That is over 30 mpg has been reserved for 'perfect conditions under 55 mph'.

Honey, the rings are home!!!

GM went overboard on gearing these things. About half the step between 5th and 6th overall would have been a better choice. Actually not putting a 2.4 in a boxcar would have been a better choice. Again, for the short stint I tested on the way back it will not do 70 mph into a light head wind even with the AC off under 13 MAP on the level. Just works it to hard. It's fine in neutral winds or a tail wind however. JUST....