Some one get me a drink!!

[Grumpy Bear]

It needs a tune or a disabler for the AFM to prevent the oil rings from sticking and sucking oil like a hole was knocked in the pan. Wasting all that expensive oil it needs to be upgrade to…for a motor that is by design, it seems by all the talk, to be on deaths bed?

Then it needs a catch can to keep the oil in the motor and out of the manifold so that the motor stays lively and efficient. Not doing so results in perceptible damage to both performance and efficiency within 3K miles. Otherwise it will flat puke in under 30K miles. Reports of 5 mpg loses in just 3K miles of use?

Needs to be rustproofed, straightened and repainted upon delivery then have a $1,200 dealership applied protection package if we want to make it through the first five months.

Transmission needs clutch drum and piston upgrades and a tune and a cooler if one tows or hauls anything larger than a lunch box.

Driveshaft needs shortening if one hauls a load heavy enough to compress the springs 2” or installs a 2” drop. Should have it straightened and balanced too.

Tires, wheels and shocks need immediate replacement as all are just plain unsafe and NAPA sells OEx pads that stop it 50 feet shorter.

So riddle me this Batman. Why buy such a heap? Why buy one fully optioned out at twice the base price to spend half that much again to “get it right” only to trade it in a year or two. Why whine about the warranty if you’re not going to own it long enough to use it. Why buy the extended warranty? And best yet, why buy another one?

Then we hear than none of this showed up in the GM 500,000 mile torture test? Someone get me a drink! Make it a Makers.

[diyer2]

Well, when you put it that way we all must be tards.

I'll buy the next round tards.

[j-ten-ner]

...Then we hear than none of this showed up in the GM 500,000 mile torture test? Someone get me a drink! Make it a Makers.

 

That's why I keep saying that I want one of those trucks.

I bet that they will run for another 500k miles.

 

Drink is on me

j-ten-ner

[Jsdirt]

If people keep buying them Marty, GM will NEVER change.

 

Can't blame them though. I'd love to get a fat paycheck every day by half-assing & cutting corners on everything I did all day long. Don't know how I'd sleep at night after screwing all my customers, though. Takes a special breed to do that ... and America is filled to 50% with them these days. God help us when we're elderly ...

[Colossus]

Tell us how you really feel.

[Grumpy Bear]

First thing I learned in "Marketing" in high school a very long time ago, was a purchase is an economic vote.

 

They won't make what you won't buy. No...actually...they CAN'T make what you won’t buy. That said the job of marketing it...get you to buy something you, in your right mind, wouldn't buy.

 

Perfect!

 

​Of course the theory in this is economic voting process; you buy another good that is worth your vote and the range of products improves. There was a time that was actually possible and worked. Not so much anymore.

 

​Example. Toyota creates a false front company called Scion. Scion doesn't build cars. Toyota doesn't build its cars. Toyota buys cars for it from the other players whose models are not selling or are not sold here by choice and markets them through this front. GM and Saturn ring a bell?

 

Like the Scion iA which Toyota bought from Mazda as a sheet metal modified Mazda 2, who won't sell it in the USA against its own Mazda 3.

 

Selling it to Toyota to be sold under a less prominent badge separates it from threatening Mazda 3 sales. Gets it sold in the USA. Everyone makes money by stirring some mud in the water. Scion is now disbanded. The Mazda 2 having proved itself will now be sold as the Yaris with a Toyota badge replacing the French built current Yaris and it will still be made in Mexico and sold here. Both companies win, Mexico gets a plant and Toyota stays in a market they have no risk in. The French company gets thrown under a buss absorbing the entire risk.

 

​Ford had the Ranger/Courier built by Mazda. Ford sources motors from Yamaha and platforms from Volvo. Saab goes under the buss. GM has a stake in Fiat who is getting the 123 Spider built by.....Mazda...a rebadged Mazda Miata. Fiat is parent to Maserati, Lamborghini and Ferrari. Lotus gets power from Range Rover. And somehow, somewhere under some table everyone is in the same bed with the same goal. Setting the bar as low as possible to maximize the profit margins as much as possible to bail out the bail out and get the public to once again….foot the bill.

 

Why does this work? We like shinny things. We don't look very deep into anything.

 

Harley does it a bit different. They wait for some bright boy to invest, design and built an "thing" or cure some ill. Then copy it with enough variation to get a patent and offer it as “stantdard” on next year’s model driving the inventor out of business without a fight. Sue the fella if he has the guts to remain.

 

If your parent it’s like when you kid is lying to you. You know they are. They know you know and yet….they keep doing it. You both smile and nod.

 

Now given the rant and the explanation for the rant; the fist post was not my thoughts on the topic but the readers here whose words fill these forums and whose words I’ve read the penned to those conclusions. Ice water thrown in your face when you won’t get out of bed.

 

It took a while but these boys have figured ways around monopoly laws by creating joint ventures and assured mutual destruction via shared technology and mutual greed.

[The Zip]

I got all that and your comment lays out the lack of integrity for the folks that sell. As you laid out below, what is the line for the folks that buy?

 

Why buy such a heap? Why buy one fully optioned out at twice the base price to spend half that much again to “get it right” only to trade it in a year or two. Why whine about the warranty if you’re not going to own it long enough to use it. Why buy the extended warranty? And best yet, why buy another one?

[j-ten-ner]

Why?

Because I like trucks.

And there're only so many options. And GM happens to build the better looking truck. At least for my taste.

And since trucks from other car makers have problems as well, that's what it comes down too for me. The look.

 

One reason why I still drive my '13 Silverado is what you've mentioned above. I have to admit that I stroll around the dealer ship once in a while.

But all it takes is one glance at the frame of those brand-new-sparkling-fresh-out-of-factory-trucks to make me walk away.

 

It's the same with all those little electronic gadgets.

People want to drive around distracted. Cell phone, make-up, food, alcohol, drugs... you name it. And the car makers deliver for those needs.

Lane departure warning, collision warning and so on.

At the end it's only damage control. But this is what they can sell to the people.

 

A car maker who'd offer cars with preventive measures like a blow tube for breath alcohol or some alien made device what turns of any cell phones as soon as the car is started, would go bankrupt in no time.

Because people want their "freedom" and their "personal rights". They don't want to be governed or to be restricted in their decision making. That would be "outrageous".

 

All this talk in commercials about how the car maker cares about the safety for you and others when the car is equipped with all this crap, is plain BS.

The car makers don't give a shit about you or me.

It sells. Simple as that.

 

so long

j-ten-ner

[KARNUT]

I know a few people that buy the large SUVs that GM puts out with 200K on them, puts 100K more on them with little problems with them. They put wheels on them alittle elbow grease and gets close to their money back when they sell them. I've seen them do it with GM pickups too, keep them turds coming. Me I buy new every two years

[Jsdirt]

Oh, the drivelines will make it ... but damn near everything around it will fail. Body, electronics, paint, seats, dashboard finish, radio buttons, etc, etc.

 

Door pins are a big one. My '72 El Camino had the original 40 year old (at the time) hinges, and they weren't bad at all. My '00 Jimmy hinge bushings were GONE in '08. Washer fluid nozzle separated in the back of the truck, and filled the body with gallons of blue stuff. Power window became express UP, instead of express down. Headlights just quit working at 9pm one night when my wife was trying to come home from work. Ball joints and front brakes seem to be a 30k mile event. Then there were the weekly check engine lights - everything from transmission solenoids, to a bad cat & misfires, EVAP b/s ... and the list goes on. Same with my '07 - ball joints couldn't even make 40k, squeaks and rattles right off the showroom floor (that is just INEXCUSABLE in ANY new vehicle) - more than my 266k '94 K1500 had. Sheet metal is as strong as a beer can (that might be giving it too much credit), brakes pulsated right off the showroom floor and STILL do to this day!!! Cannot be fixed by traditional repairs. Go figure. And the list goes on ....

[CadillacLuke24]

That's odd, I can't replicate any of the OP's issues with my 15.

 

[jimlem]

OK? Everyone feel better now? Let's all take a breath and give thanks we do not have to walk everywhere we go.

[jimlem]

oops!

[Grumpy Bear]

I got all that and your comment lays out the lack of integrity for the folks that sell. As you laid out below, what is the line for the folks that buy?

 

 

Sell, manufacture, and design. You sure you want this answered?

 

 

Because people want their "freedom" and their "personal rights". They don't want to be governed or to be restricted in their decision making. That would be "outrageous".

 

 

 

Read J-ten-ner's entire post again for context so the quoted portion makes clear sense.

 

I can point to the stars and say there are millions in this galaxy alone and all believe it. Tell those same folks the paint on the bench is wet and they just have to touch it to see for themselves. Why to two year olds never tire of "why"? Why did Eve eat the fruit with a garden full of perfect food to chose from?

 

Because some marketing snake told her the only one that had the ability and the right to direct their steps was a liar and withholding her own power from her.

 

Oh, if she would just resist being told what to do, she would "be like God". Seriously? Like god eh? How did that work out for everyone? (Gen 3 : 5)

 

Every second since then humans have been fighting over who has the ability, expertise and the right to lead the _____________. You fill in the blank. Company? Country? Soccer team? Household? Like crows in sight of a shinny thing....we choose to follow the bling of a well told lie instead of the "ring of truth".

 

Along time ago, our morality, sensibility, rationality, integrity and a perfect life was forfiet for a lie that we are remotely capable of self direction or rule.

 

Before ya go ripping on this give a seconds pause to your reaction to reading it...........Does it anger you?........Why?......Careful now....any heated reply makes it's own point for this line of reason.

 

Like any good lie this one was partially true. We do, by design, have the "right" to choose. We are not puppets. We just were not given the ability to do it very well. A little detail the snakes marketing group left unsaid. It would be kind of like a device writing its own operating manual.

 

It's "the line" for the folks that buy and "the line" folks that sell. One just takes advantage of the other. A self sustaining and self destructive downward spiral. It can't be fixed it with any amount of writing or oration. We can be more self aware and a bit less gullible. We would make better choices. Our choices, after all, got us this far. As long as the choice is to self direct....we get what we get....presently.

[Jsdirt]

I got suckered in with a cushy ride, excellent looks, and more horsepower/torque. Never again. After the "newness" wore off, I could see what I actually bought. An over-priced, cheaped-out truck that wasn't worth 1/4 what I had paid for it. Got a fancy interior, and HVAC system that requires a trip (with a FULL wallet, of course) either to the dealer (wallet had best be REALLY full on that trip ...) or to a private garage that has access to a J2534 magic box that the tech has to get a magic password straight from GM to use, after paying an extortion fee, in order to make it work again should it be replaced. A simple "plug and play" part wasn't enough for GM - they had to engineer it so they could get EVEN MORE of your money! $30k in 2007 - $455/mo. with $8-LARGE down - still wasn't enough for GM. They need to rip you off every step of the way by deliberately engineering parts that not only fail too soon, but need "programming" (extortion, more like it) in order to work when replaced. The FPCM is another brainstorm. Why was this necessary?? There was absolutely no need for a computer or "module" to be in between power and the fuel pump since FI first rolled out! This is pure GREED in my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I will NEVER give any automaker one more dime of my hard-earned money until I find out his has changed. If it doesn't change, well, then they just lost a customer.