Grumpy Bears 2015 Silverado 2WD

heymrdjCW · May 17, 2019

There’s nothing hidden is Grumpy’s quest for gas mileage. There’s several threads explaining how and why. People on here have learned how to prolong the life of transmissions in one of his threads as an example. The fact he drives the speed limit shouldn’t be caused for bashing. Most people don’t realize the legal minimum speed on an interstate is 40 MPH. This isn’t a socialist state. Just because you want doesn’t require everyone to fall in line. I travel a lot. There are areas I want to hit before rush hour. I leave earlier. I don’t drive faster. We have to allow people to drive in their comfort zone. Not in force our will on them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not bashing the speed limit. His thread history is missing the point. To post a claim to people, who may or may not have the history of the build, with a mileage number of a modified vehicle in a stock thread is dishonest. To post mileage attained only through hypermiling techniques so far out of normal driving in a stock thread, is dishonest.

I don’t care what he does for his own personal gains. I care that he made a statement that the 2.7’s mileage is worse than his, didn’t give the facts, and then acts like that is reason enough to hate the 2.7. His blatant use of head in sand regarding the capabilities motor is astounding to me. I’m not even huge on the motor, because I tow a lot. It’s ok to be old school. I have nostalgia for clicky 100MB hard drives and tone driven BBS. But I don’t pretend that the old stuff I love is superior in almost any way to the modern stuff.

KARNUT · May 17, 2019

Not bashing the speed limit. His thread history is missing the point. To post a claim to people, who may or may not have the history of the build, with a mileage number of a modified vehicle in a stock thread is dishonest. To post mileage attained only through hypermiling techniques so far out of normal driving in a stock thread, is dishonest.

I don’t care what he does for his own personal gains. I care that he made a statement that the 2.7’s mileage is worse than his, didn’t give the facts, and then acts like that is reason enough to hate the 2.7. His blatant use of head in sand regarding the capabilities motor is astounding to me. I’m not even huge on the motor, because I tow a lot. It’s ok to be old school. I have nostalgia for clicky 100MB hard drives and tone driven BBS. But I don’t pretend that the old stuff I love is superior in almost any way to the modern stuff.

You may not have read his threads. He generally sticks to lower speed limit roads. He cooled his trans temp, and lower his truck, wow. Most people who post their mileage usually show 25 mile readings, he’s showing lifetime. More honest reading I would say. As far as being skeptical, I lived through and owned 5.7 diesels, 62, 65s, 8-6-4 caddy’s. He has confidence in cylinder deactivation, I don’t. So if he’s doubting the boosted 4, I pay attention. There’s a few years of posting, pretty knowledgeable.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Grumpy Bear · May 17, 2019

4 hours ago, heymrdjCW said:

You have claimed that people only concentrated on speed. Yet when rebutted you remain quiet in the other points. The problem was your ridiculous claim of mileage in the other thread. A claim WITHOUT disclosing that your truck is heavily modified to one purpose, fuel efficiency. Dishonest at best. Now if you want to give fuel numbers for a stock 19 V6 like I had, but with your driving methods, those numbers could be taken for debate.

1.) I have claimed nothing of the sort. Been very forthcoming I'd say. Presently 38 pages of explanation of what my truck is or isn't. No deceit whatsoever. You claim of dishonesty is false...facts are in evidence. And in more than these 38 current pages. I do not hide.

2.) Stated several times I don't Hyper-Mile. Your claim is false. In print multiple times in multiple threads. I drive moderately. I drive legally. I do not Hyper-Mile.

3.) Modified, yes, Heavy modification 'for one expressed purpose"? Not really. This points to the probability you haven't actually read this thread. The fact that a modification for one purpose also suits the goal of another purpose isn't coincidence, it's physics at work.

All I know about you presently is that you haven't read this tread. You are therefor speaking without knowledge. As you haven't asked a serious question it would seem you interest isn't to learn anything or share anything to further the threads goals but to promote you own agenda as a guest in someone else's thread. Which makes you a rude guest.

heymrdjCW · May 17, 2019

1.) I have claimed nothing of the sort. Been very forthcoming I'd say. Presently 38 pages of explanation of what my truck is or isn't. No deceit whatsoever. You claim of dishonesty is false...facts are in evidence. And in more than these 38 current pages. I do not hide.

2.) Stated several times I don't Hyper-Mile. Your claim is false. In print multiple times in multiple threads. I drive moderately. I drive legally. I do not Hyper-Mile.

3.) Modified, yes, Heavy modification 'for one expressed purpose"? Not really. This points to the probability you haven't actually read this thread. The fact that a modification for one purpose also suits the goal of another purpose isn't coincidence, it's physics at work.

All I know about you presently is that you haven't read this tread. You are therefor speaking without knowledge. As you haven't asked a serious question it would seem you interest isn't to learn anything or share anything to further the threads goals but to promote you own agenda as a guest in someone else's thread. Which makes you a rude guest.

You mentioned above regarding the bones not being chewed, I’ve attempted to get answers on the bones, you have not replied.

You came to the 2.7 thread and posted your 4.3L mileage being better, stating none of these facts regarding your build. So I came to find your build and I see your question regarding these bones. If you can’t see the dishonesty in that, I can’t help you. Again, when you make a claim in a knowingly stock for stock thread. If we’re talking about changing transmission , lowering the truck, changing oil weight, and turning off the A/C on a 2.7, it’d be a great comparison. Maybe someone could try that.

Going without A/C and things like that is hyper-miling. Nothing wrong with it, when done legally, as you’re doing. It is hypermiling though.

Just semantics I guess. You do you. It’s a neat build.

Grumpy Bear · May 17, 2019

Let's go ahead and reply to "Balance" as heymrdjCW couldn't have missed the point more if he was throwing darts in another room.

Setting the table.

US government site says this trucks national average fuel efficiency is 17 mpg

Peppers life time average is 27 mpg

Google search say average miles/year are 13,500 (rounded)

Google search says average wage in the US is $22.63 / hour

Current fuel prices $2.75 a gallon.

Started driving when I was 16 and lets just say we make the end at retirement age, 66 so 50 years.

Total miles driven 675,000 miles. Difference in fuel efficiencies yields a life time price difference of $40,441.18.

At the national average wage that is 1787 hours but wait you have to pay taxes to clear that number and that is 30% more for most of us so now 2323 hours. But wait there is more. Wage compression over the last 50 years has taken 40% out of you buying power so now 3250 hours.

That is 1 YEAR, 6 MONTHS and THREE WEEKS you were away from you family to pay for your waste. I might be driving yet another 30 years so and 60% to that number. Add to that the numbers for not buying one or two more vehicles and your wasting years of you life to get somewhere faster oh so mush slower.

That is allot of 30 minute sessions. Think I'll take the extra time to get there legally and safely and spend a few less years working.

FYI heymrdjCW. Your now 'Ignored" I suggest you do the same. I don't do irrational and tired of repeating myself.

Grumpy Bear · May 18, 2019

90,198 Mile Service

This is a partial service. Just the oil change today. I've traded SAE grade from 0W20 to 0W30. Still Red Line High Performance. New insert in the K&P Filter.

I've voiced concerns of late (since the weather got warmer) about oil pressure seeming a bit low. As we learned that the lions share of fuel efficiency comes from the 0W instead of the W30 it seemed right to test both ideas at the same time. The efficiency will be tested over time as usual but pressure was a different matter and the early result is very positive.

While the operational pressure was fine the test pressures was of concern. They should be warmed up and fresh oil. (Minimums)

22 psi @ 1,000 rpm

30 psi @ 2,000 rpm

33 psi @ 3,000 rpm

These are scan tool readings. We will be hooking up a proper test gauge Wednesday when the service is completed.

With the 0W20:

25 psi @ 1,000 rpm

25 psi @ 1,500 rpm

27 psi @ 2,000 rpm but would fade after about a minute to 25 psi.

30 psi @ 3,000 rpm but would fade after about a minute to 25-27 psi.

Wide open second stage pressure over 5,000 rpm hit 52 psi then fade to a bit under 50 psi. The fade is my concern

With the 0W30:

25 psi @ 1,000 rpm (no change)

25 psi @ 1,500 rpm (no change) This is also the top of my normal cruse speed rpm.

29 psi @ 2,000 rpm ( plus 2 psi and fade free)

33 psi @ 3,000 rpm ( plus 3 psi and fade free)

WOT untested as of yet. Will report later.

On the dash gauge this change is nearly imperceptible. Less than half a needle width.

So what we have/had going on is 'froth'. The lighter oil will froth at higher rpm. As soon as the rpm is below 1500 rpm pressure settle right in.

Driving as I do I could have done this forever.

*W20 could be trouble for a more aggressive driver.

This IS NOT an about face but facts and data driving changes for the better. 0W30 it will be.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · May 18, 2019

0W20 vs 0W30 Road Test Result

5/17/2019

Test was a 100 mile loop of Interstate I-39. 25 miles of State Road 251 and two hard passes on a county blacktop.

Final hot soaked oil temperature is about the same. To close to call different. Plus or minus 1* depending on speed, gear and rpm.

Much steadier pressure indication but only about 2 psi higher during first stage operation. That is below the 3600 rpm second stage trigger point. Absolutely no pressure fade and about half the drift. 2-3 psi instead of 5-6 psi. Things get interesting when you pin her ears back.

0W20 would hit about 52 psi and then drift back quickly to roughly 48 psi at the top of each gear with the motor shifting around 5,400 rpm.

0W30 it hit 56 psi and held it. Oddly the dash gauge says no change at all at peak rpm. At hot idle the 0W30 has an indicated 3 psi advantage on both the Scan Gauge and the dash gauge. At 1375 rpm (55 mph) it's about a half a needle different. 30W higher.

During the winter months this was not an issue I noticed but once air temperatures got over 80 F it got uncomfortable. That dash gauge isn't much more than a bad idiot light. IMHO.

5/18/2019

Ordered 170 F thermostat from Reisch Performance. A Dayco I believe. Previous JET 170 F unit yielded best efficiency number to date and lowest running oil temperature without using an additional cooler.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · May 22, 2019

90,462 Mile Services

Easy stuff first. Tire rotation and balance. They were all on balance.

Today the VLOM screen and oil pressure switch were replaced and then the fun began. Oil Pressure testing. Ran the motor until over 200 F. Plugged in the Snap-On scan tool and got the following numbers:

44-48 psi at idle.

52-78 psi at 1500. (I expect it was going through the test sequence for the high number)

52-59 psi at 2200 rpm.

"Something is amiss there." I said so the main oil filter was pulled and a mechanical test rig install. 4-6 psi higher at the filter. You sure the second stage is not active? Nope. No signal. Plug in the Scan Gauge II and compare with the mechanical.

Neither the dash gauge nor the Scan Gauge II are even close. I have him roll through other Scan Gauge II parameters and all are on the mark except the oil pressure. By a factor of about 2 or so. I'll have a chat with Linear Logic but bottom line is oil pressure is at the top of the GM range. An aside; I had targeted a 60 psi oil pressure gauge for the future. Scratch that, eh? This also means the dash gauge is reading well below the 'real' numbers.

So my worry was ill spent and I have no need for the W30. I'll use what I have and go back.

Quoting Jason: "I've never seen a VLOM screen come out looking better than a new one. Not a hint of varnish nor debris".

He also mentioned that it is the highest test pressures he has seen on any Ecotec3 motor. He's done a few 5.3 oil pumps already.

FYI. These VLOM screens in the 4.3 are installed upside down of the 5.3/6.2 version and a pill to get out. The new pressure switch reads identical to the old one. Good thing they are front mounted, right?

A quart of 10W30 Red Line used as makeup for the filter R&R.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · May 23, 2019

So the landscape has changed, right? What was learned? Seriously? I'm unsure. Traditionally a mechanical gauge is considered third most accurate. Actual water column hook gauges are most accurate. Verified 'test gauge' ranks second. Snap-On OBDII is no joke and backed up by a Snap-On mechanical test gauge within 2-4% seems reasonable. What bothers me is the fact that the Ecotec3 uses a two stage pump and the numbers I'm seeing on the first stage hot are....what? Real? Both Autometer and SPEEDHUT claim 0.5% accuracy. This has to go on hold. My mind is spinning. Good lord I hate liars, thieves and marketing people.

What I do know. Red Line products and 5K OCI's have produced a surgically clean motor interior and a motor that uses no measurable oil over that change interval. All this and a full SAE viscosity grade lower than GM's call out for most of her life and apparently more oil pressure than I have a right to expect. Well, and a dash gauge that reads some 10-15 psi low??? There are questions left unanswered that I'm as of yet uncomfortable with what information I currently have.

What I also know. Jason knows what he is doing and is unafraid to tell me when he does not know something. So for now I trust I have 50 psi cold idle pressure and about 5 pounds lower hot AT anything under 212F. That I have somewhere between over 60 psi before the second stage engages. Something over 50 psi going down the road.

Anyone remember why I scraped the gear project? Low oil pressure! Now I've burned up $300 testing of that money I set aside for that project. Grrrrrrrrr.

Okay, lets finish what I have on my plate. They bypass filtration system.

Late edit: Tire depth 7/32, pressures adjustment. 170 F radiator thermostat showed up today but rain, rain and more rain. Later.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Grumpy Bear
Missing information and new information

Grumpy Bear · May 26, 2019

"Garbage in, garbage out."

And still not as bad as it sounds. Yes I got faked out on the oil pressure into making some moves it will take me awhile to unwind and yet damaged nothing more than my pride. Bought some oil I wont use for this vehicle. Made some commitments to equipment that will lay idle. Delayed some projects I'd rather have done and missed some opportunities I will not get again. What did not take a hit is my confidence in my direction. Besides; a bit of crow now and again is good for digestion and humility.

Plus side is the wrong direction still yielded some useful data I would have otherwise missed acquiring. Helps define the picture and remove doubts about the 'what if's' that are a part of experimentation. Affirmed some already knowns so my defense remains solid. I have some things to chase down. I'll share when I can.

Grumpy Bear · May 31, 2019

Peppers MPG Report Card

Limited data for 2016 the year I bought her but the next two years are over a distance of 35,983 miles for 2017 and 31,246 miles for 2018. Only 7,764 miles for 2016. Not charted are then 2019 numbers to date of 7,088 miles for 28.06 mpg.

May numbers are in:

2017 - 26.21 mpg

2018 - 28.45 mpg

2019 - 29.64 mpg

Quarterly numbers for Spring by year: (March - May)

2017 - 25.28 mpg

2018 - 27.33 mpg

2019 - 28.30 mpg

Life Time Average now at 27.2 mpg.

Last 26,338 miles 28.6 mpg. That is going back 1 year to date.

5% above the lifetime average and including all four seasons so apples to apples.

Grumpy Bear · May 31, 2019

Windless Day. Speed v AFM

Nearly 500 miles today and an almost perfect day to do it. 72 F mean. 0 to 4 mph winds. Partly sunny. Light traffic. All directions. Elevation range 500 to 1100 feet. State road, Federal Highways, Interstates. Good day to find some numbers.

If I travel 50 mph the AFM is on allot and level ground numbers are just under 40 mpg. At 55 mph the AFM is on more as far as I can tell but the increase in speed drops the level ground number to 34.5 mpg. The AFM will stay on over mild inclines.

By 59 mph (95 kph) the AFM toggles with the changes in elevation. Up it's off, down it's on. On the level it depends. If I reach level after a down hill with the AFM active it will remain so. If, on the other hand, I reach the flat after an uphill it will remain off. Level ground AFM on number is 30.5. AFM off level ground just under 28 mpg.

The no wind break speed seems to be about 57 mph. That's the highest speed I could get it to toggle with elevation and stay on flat ground regardless of approach.

That said two nights ago returning from Peoria I had a 10 mph tail wind and at 60 mph the AFM stayed on like it does at 55 mph and with about the same mpg numbers on level ground.

Add a new tool to the box. We don't get many windless days here.

diyer2 · May 31, 2019

My MPG gallon averages 15.5 hand calc.

There is very little flat land on my most traveled roads.

20 MPG would be great but it's a dream.

Gas here is $3.15 for 87 octane, Top Tier Shell gas which is what I use.

It's the only gas station in our area.

The next town that's 30 miles away, one way is 3 cents a gallon cheaper.

Grumpy Bear · May 31, 2019

5 hours ago, diyer2 said:

My MPG gallon averages 15.5 hand calc.

There is very little flat land on my most traveled roads.

20 MPG would be great but it's a dream.

Gas here is $3.15 for 87 octane, Top Tier Shell gas which is what I use.

It's the only gas station in our area.

The next town that's 30 miles away, one way is 3 cents a gallon cheaper.

Your point, as always, is well taken. I might not say this enough. Your local situation has a great deal to do with it. Which says it is unwise to compare your mpg progress in your quest to anything but your project in raw numbers. Percentages would be more appropriate. I'll pay closer attention to that detail. Thank you sir!

swathdiver · May 31, 2019

6 hours ago, diyer2 said:

My MPG gallon averages 15.5 hand calc.

There is very little flat land on my most traveled roads.

20 MPG would be great but it's a dream.

Gas here is $3.15 for 87 octane, Top Tier Shell gas which is what I use.

It's the only gas station in our area.

The next town that's 30 miles away, one way is 3 cents a gallon cheaper.

Around here, I've always been able to count on Shell to deliver 2 MPG less then my usual average in all of our vehicles and that is with their high octane fuel!

Try some ethanol if you ever come across it. My truck gets better MPGs with 20% alcohol content than with 93 E10 octane gasoline.