Grumpy Bears 2015 Silverado 2WD

Grumpy Bear · April 1, 2019

March 2019 numbers are in:

2017 26.24 mpg

2018 25.45 mpg

2019 27.01 mpg

Since June 2018 the numbers have been "off the hook". Several things happened near that time. The JET 170 F thermostat failed and was replaced with the Stant 180 F in the IPSCO remote housing. Change of both oil grade and type from QSUD 5W20 to Red Line 0W20. And lastly multiple trans drop and fills with Red Line D6 along with thermostat delete. Diff has been Red Line 75W90 since about 50 K. Looking over all data and breaking out various periods and their listed modifications.....

Getting fluids up to heat quicker has been HUGE. Lower cold temperature viscosity is HUGE. Actually peak tank numbers are only marginally higher. About 1 mpg but the frequency and easy of nailing a 30 mpg tank in warm weather has gone from a struggle to a given. Winter warmup rates are quick, predictable and repeatable. Nailing the water temp was more of a happenstance than a plan but I'll take it.

Not much low hanging fruit left. Quicker warmup utilizing tank pre-heaters. Refinement of antifreeze percentages. Warmer trans stat with a minimum flow bypass. Tires. Improvement in oil flow rates. These things are heading the list. In other words I don't see the peak getting higher. I see the area under the curve getting fuller.

This means the gear project is canceled...for now. Won't get back on the list until I can get some straight answers about the oiling system.

Grumpy Bear · April 1, 2019

Hot oil pressure minimums.

22 psi @ 1,000 rpm

30 psi @ 2,000 rpm

33 psi @ 3,000 rpm

LV1, LV3, L83, L86 and L96.

It's a start. Everything is like pulling hen's teeth. Thanks Mike! Newer fella chimed in.

Grumpy Bear · April 3, 2019

Another hens' tooth pulled. Low oil pressure warning lamp comes in at 8 PSI. How that is a good idea in a system that requires a minimum of 22 psi to activate the AFM is beyond comprehension. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

swathdiver · April 3, 2019

4 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Another hens' tooth pulled. Low oil pressure warning lamp comes in at 8 PSI. How that is a good idea in a system that requires a minimum of 22 psi to activate the AFM is beyond comprehension. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Why does it matter? If AFM fails to activate because the pressure is too low, that could serve as a warning before the motor hits 8 psi and the light comes on.

Grumpy, Can you point me to where you talked about your decision to go with Red Line oil or the comparison by the stats that showed it to be best?

I've come across a new ACDelco oil and Shell Rotella Gas Truck and would like to compare them with RL.

Grumpy Bear · April 3, 2019

40 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

Why does it matter? If AFM fails to activate because the pressure is too low, that could serve as a warning before the motor hits 8 psi and the light comes on.

Grumpy, Can you point me to where you talked about your decision to go with Red Line oil or the comparison by the stats that showed it to be best?

I've come across a new ACDelco oil and Shell Rotella Gas Truck and would like to compare them with RL.

Not worried about it not activating. Worried that low pressure will mistime the event and destroy the lifter/cam. Low pressure mistimed switching is was kills the valvetrain.

Delco 5W30 for first 1300 miles then

Mobil 1 5W30 to 9,200 miles then

QSUD 5W20 to 30,252 miles then, plot temp profile

Mobil 1 5W20 for on change to plot temp profile to 35,000 miles then

Red Line 5W20 to 65,000 miles then plot temp profile

Red Line 0W20 to present.

At 50,000 Switched to Red Line D6 in the trans and Red Line 75W90 in the diff.

Just before 60,000 miles trans thermostat delete.

Between 25 and 30K JET 180 F Stat

Between 35 and 40 K JET stat fails, Return to OEM 207 F modified

Just before 45K Installed JET 170 F stat.

Between 65 and 70 K Jet 170 fails and I park it.

Install Stant 180F in IPSCO adaptor.

In this thread I show the temp profiles and in other post show my UOA's and Blackstone Universal Averages.

Data is driving me toward an end. I study something awhile, decide, hypothesize and test. Rinse and repeat. My mantra is improved fuel economy can only happen if lower friction is obtained with AFR tables and timing held a constant. Lower friction is lower wear rates. To date my in house methods have me using Red Line 0W20 and employing colder operating parameters to that end.

Honestly I'm at a boarder line presently with oil pressure vs oil temperature. As a general rule it takes a reduction of 20* F in the sump to step down one SAE grade but the step from W30 to W20 needs about 30 F. I could run a colder stat and reach that but that triggers some 'not warmed up; fuel mapping that runs her richer by a tad. Enough to notice but not enough to worry me.

I actually have two other oils I'm investigating myself. Syn4life and MPT 30K. Dyson turned me toward the second. Just reading right now. That second one is allot like Red Line in composition.

Currently as in today I ordered a K & P Engineering surgical stainless 'forever' oil filter. You clean it instead of replace it. Two draws to this product. It has an 100% efficiency of an absolute 35 micro pass. About 5 micron better than the best paper filters. It has 1/7th the flow restriction which means the pump uses 1/7 the power to push the same amount of oil which means less pumping energy heating the oil. The nail is it's quarter turn unlock construction that never leaves the base attached to the motor while the guts spill on the floor. Because it offers so little restriction the relief setting is only 4 psi. It offers less backpressure at 90% plugged than a paper or cellulose filter does new. Quicker wetting and pressure build.

Don't know if that is exactly what you wanted but....if not PM me with specifics and I'll dig around in my notes for answers.

swathdiver · April 4, 2019

5 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Not worried about it not activating. Worried that low pressure will mistime the event and destroy the lifter/cam. Low pressure mistimed switching is was kills the valvetrain.

I guess that could happen if the pressure fell off while engage in V4. I would think that they put in another fail safe to protect against that and didn't feel the need to share it with us.

As for the oil, I was thinking about the specs, the ASTMs D445, D2270, D4683/D4741, etc.

I'd like to use those numbers and any others you might suggest to compare a new ACDelco oil, Shell's Rotella Gas Truck and Quaker State's Ultimate Durability in 5W-30. Oh, and Redline too.

Grumpy Bear · April 4, 2019

1 hour ago, swathdiver said:

I guess that could happen if the pressure fell off while engage in V4. I would think that they put in another fail safe to protect against that and didn't feel the need to share it with us.

As for the oil, I was thinking about the specs, the ASTMs D445, D2270, D4683/D4741, etc.

I'd like to use those numbers and any others you might suggest to compare a new ACDelco oil, Shell's Rotella Gas Truck and Quaker State's Ultimate Durability in 5W-30. Oh, and Redline too.

So you want the kinematic viscosity, viscosity index and HSHT for this list of oils? In other words the physicals that are on the "Product sheets" and you want me to look them up for you? I mean I will if you can't for some reason. Just say. If you need help you will have to point me towards this 'new' ACDelco oil.

There was a tread on this site about lifter collapse from GM I believe in a video. I just can't remember where. The switch is suppose to happen on the base circle of the cam. In milliseconds the oil goes from zero psi to anything over 22 psi. If the pressure is slow to build or absent when the lifter is trying to lock in it is delays to the ramp. The jolt is what damages the pins and the lands they lock into. It is really important to keep the VLOM primary screen beneath the pressure switch clean and assure ample oil pressure above 1,000 rpm. 22 psi min hot.

Grumpy Bear · April 4, 2019

ACDelco Red Line QSUD Rotella Super Syn MPT-30K AMSOIL

Vis 40 C 61.2 71 66.65 66.4 63.15 73.2 59.7

Vis 100 C 10.4 11.9 11.6 11.7 11.2 11.8 10.7

VI 160 166 170 175 158 162 Higher is better

HTHS 3.7 3.9 3.11 Higher is better

NOACK 6% <13% 5.4% 6.7% Lower is better

ACDelco is an Exxon/Mobil product based on Mobil 1 5W30.

That the case then ACDelco is a Group III hydrocracked oil just like Quaker State. Polarity would by default be middle of the road. I can find no information of Rotellas base oil. ACDelco is better than I imagined it would be.

Red Line is a PAO/POE blend. PAO is very non-polar thus a pretty high percentage of POE is added to improve polarity which improves wetting. Enough to be more polar than mineral oil. I actually know the percentage but am not at liberty to say. Let's just say I still know some people in refining at Phillips.

Tossed SuperSyn, AMSOIL and MPT-30K in for kicks.

I don't know what this information will tell you but it's what I could find.

0W20

Synlube Red Line QSUD AMSOIL

40 C vis 40.8 48 44.61 47.1

100 C vis 9.0 9.1 8.3 8.8

VI 210 172 165 169

HTHS 2.7 2.9 2.67

NOACK 9 8.5

Edited April 4, 2019 by Grumpy Bear

swathdiver · April 4, 2019

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

So you want the kinematic viscosity, viscosity index and HSHT for this list of oils? In other words the physicals that are on the "Product sheets" and you want me to look them up for you? I mean I will if you can't for some reason. Just say. If you need help you will have to point me towards this 'new' ACDelco oil.

Sorry, didn't mean to ask you for things I can look up myself though some particulars have been difficult to locate. I meant to ask in the case of Red Line 5W30, that you chose to go with that because of this stat or that or combination was better than X, Y and Z.

The ACDelco is 10-9234 (quart bottles) and is advertised for 4WD trucks, presumably those with aluminum engines like mine. They had a different oil for RWD trucks which have iron blocks. This one measured better than QSUD and Shell RGT and right under Red Line for D445 but bested it in D2270 with a 175. Haven't been able to find HTHS for it, Shell or QS.

ACDelco - 10-9234 = 11.8 - 67 - 175

Grumpy Bear · April 4, 2019

7 hours ago, swathdiver said:

I meant to ask in the case of Red Line 5W30, that you chose to go with that because of this stat or that or combination was better than X, Y and Z.

Ah, my bad...I totally misunderstood. No I chose Red Line (to date) because of:

1.) the feed back it gives me based on measurement. Runs cooler. Rapid pressure rise. UOA's and sometimes the 'feel' of the vehicle when you use it. For example I had a 98 Honda HX with a five speed manual. Getting that thing in low gear anything above a crawl was impossible. Red Line MTL contains a friction modifier that slows the sync rings that allows engagement at any speed you feel comfortable with. Example two. Red Line Shock Proof Heavy in a Harley twin cam gear box removes the 'clunk', smooths the shifts to Asian quality and keeps the temperature in check.

2.) It's polarity. POE's are highly polar. In a polarity comparison from worst to best it goes PAO - Mineral Oil - POE - PAG. Blending can be a situation where the total is greater than the sum of it's parts. Synergy at work. Now allot of Synthetic Oils claim POE content and some is actually needed for other reasons beyond polarity but Red Line is the only oil where I know the concentration and it is considerable. Some of the others that lay that claim can be as low as 3%. Enough to do the 'other job' but not enough to assist in what matters.

I made a comment once that film strength is tied to viscosity ONLY within a type. Example. Two oils both with a 9.0 100 C viscosity. AT 100 C the film strength of the POE is higher than that of the mineral oil no matter how much processing it goes under. How much more? About the equivalent of one SAE viscosity grade. No one is going to tell you that a POE 20 W can be run anywhere a 30W is called for. But some will tell you that the film strength of a 20W POE is about the same as the 30W AT the same viscosity. That last item is important and why I try to keep things reasonable cool.

3.) Yes, a low NOACK and a High HSTS don't hurt either.

Grumpy Bear · April 8, 2019

EG Antifreeze Notes:

So here is some weirdness. Playing with the thermostat I managed to dilute the mix to -18 F. (42/58) The data I’ve been collecting on trans temperatures took a 3-4* F swing up when I adjusted the coolant back to -34.2 F (50/50 mix).

Of course this gets my attention. Normally I think in terms of freeze protection for coolant but it has an impact on thermal capacity as well; along with burst protection and additive concentrations. The window is large.

Minimum additive concentration according to Dow comes at a 30% glycol to 70% water mix but gives maximum thermal capacity based on concentration but thermal capacity is also affected by the solutions temperature as well. (Engineers Tool Box) Oddly the hotter the fluid the better it conducts heat. Who knew, right?

Maximum freeze protection comes at a 65/35 mix and -62 F. Adding more EG to the system and the freezing point starts to climb again. However the boil over protection keeps rising all the way to 100% EG. The freeze point is also raised to 8.78 F at 100% EG.

I guess if you live some place the temperature falls below -62 F you charge the system with Propylene Glycol.

Burst protection. Takes about half the concentration of EG to protect for burst to the same freeze point so it should never be an issue. Caveat is when your freeze protection is exceeded. The coolant turns to slush. Slush kills water pumps and doesn’t conduct or flow well. Yea, you can overheat a motor at -35 F air temperature if the system is protected only to -18 F. Good day to let her sit and I did during those -35 F days we had in February. Some friends of mine didn't fair as well.

How I got in trouble or could have. 50/50 mix isn’t 50/50. It’s 50% water, 47% EG and 3% additives. Did you know that? I didn't. It’s what I had been using for makeup coolant and a pint of RO water once. Cooled real good. Too good actually. Makes the thermostat cycle in low temperature situations. Anyway, thought to share….

CadillacLuke24 · April 8, 2019

Good to know. Since changing coolant in my Cadillac in 2012 I've run a 70/30 mix and had no issues, and that's battle tested to -33 F over the winder of 2017 I believe.

Grumpy Bear · April 9, 2019

6L80E Thermostat Delete 55 mph Fluid Temperature Data Update (last 1/9/2019)

Grumpy Bear · April 10, 2019

Next project is oil filtration. The below link will do the explanation. This one is K&P Engineering not Scotts. I went with the original after bludgeoning the poor fellow at the other end of the customer service line to tears until I was assured that I was giving up nothing meaningful. The I ran across this link and then felt bad for the guy I beat up. Maybe.....

https://xladv.com/articles/what39s-the-real-difference-between-paper-and-stainless-steel-oil-filters-r59/?pagecommentundefined=1

PF63E along side for size reference. This one will actually flows about 7 times more fluid which means lower back pressure and almost non existent bypass situations even at -25F and even though it has a 4 psi blow off. PF63E has a 22 psi relief and uses it.

Pump flows with the pump flows. It's positive displacement. It might even buy me enough space for a sandwich plate for a cooler or bypass filtration system. One step at a time. Several finishes are available from K&P. I chose anodized. Bought a second screen and a lifetime supply of gaskets.

Here is what I really know. The absolute single pass size. 35 um ABSOULUTE single pass rating. Something you can't pry out of the other manufactures. WIX adverts 21 nominal with a 50% rating at 6 micron and a 95% capture at 20 micron. They 'say' a 21 micron absolute number (multi-pass) but...as you will find in the link there is absolute and then there is ABSOLUTE. When I tire of the lies and deceit I move on...this is me moving on. There is a reason for this I may or may not state sometime in the future. I'm in research mode for now.