Grumpy Bears 2015 Silverado 2WD

Grumpy Bear · October 3, 2017

I traded a 2015 Scion iA for my truck. What the dealer did not know was the price I paid for the Scion which was a new but scratch and dent auction car with 200 miles on it I put $800 in paint and body to perfect. The truck was one year old with 1300 garage miles on it and flawless with $638 in new accessories installed. NADA on her was $23,000 even. Price paid on the Scion plus repairs was less than the truck book plus accessories. I walked out with $$$ in my pocket. That is assuming I paid book for the truck. I did not.

I gave over $2000 under NADA clean retail book. He also paid the registration fees and I kept my plates.

In the end based on actual $$$$ out of pocket…I made money. I actually got paid by the dealer to quibble for five hours a working wage. Based on the savings of buying a new truck at MSRP I saved enough to pay for the suspension modifications. I bought the Scion cheap. Real cheap. I sold it flawless. Someone got a real nice car and I got my dream truck. The dealer paid for it. The truck was saved from auction. Finance manager was...well...ticked off a bit at the sales manager.

Good trade 'dumb bear'. (Dances with Wolves)

Grumpy Bear · October 6, 2017

Springs arived yesterday. Got notice today. Waiting on an appointment to get this done. Maybe after the site updates I can get some photo's.

2015 Silverado RCSB RPO code RBZ alignment specs. (119" wheelbase)

Left:

Camber -0.9 tp 0.7 degrees

Castor 1.5 to 3.5 degrees

Right:

Camber -0.9 to 0.7 degrees

Castor 1.3 to 3.3 degrees

Toe -.05 to .15 degrees

Cross camber range -.08 tp 0.8 degrees

Cross castor range -0.8 to 1.2 degrees

Total Toe -0.1 to 0.3 degrees

Additional perhaps useful information:

Left front tires that have about a quarter degree more POSITIVE camber than the right side help the truck navigate crowned roads without climbing the crown. No more than a quarter however. If you choose to use negative camber remember that on that side of zero less negative in more positive. It's easy to confuse.

More than a half degree of camber, negative or positive accelerates tire wear.

High negative camber promotes outside tire 'bite'.

0.2 degrees more drivers side castor works in concert with the camber to the same end.

More than 2.5 degrees of positive castor will scrub the tread off the tires outside ribs especially in low speed city driving.

High castor angles promote harsh ride. Something to consider.

High castor angles induce understeer even with a half degree of negative camber.

High castor angles help directional stability. Leave the big numbers to lakes racers.

High castor angles induce positive toe.

Lower castor combine with mildly negative camber and positive toe will provide good tire wear patterns if combine with proper tire pressures and frequent rotations and balance adjustment. Also promotes the least parasitic drag if near zero thrust angle and steer ahead is the result of a sensible alignment.

Pepper as I received it had a huge amount of positive castor with more right than left. Out of spec high. It also had out of spec negative camber with more right than left. Left front tire was wildly negative toe and even thought the right side was near maximum positive toe the combination yield a net negative toe (toe out) and out of bounds steer ahead and thrust angle. Hey the steering wheel was centered and thanks to electronic assist it felt fine going down the road. Picked it up in routine tire inspection when the outside ribs were showing five times the normal wear rate.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · October 6, 2017

October Friday the 13th is the day I've been assigned stall space. Punch list is done.

Stopped in to see what a grand in springs looks like as factory replacements are about $125 each. This is some set of springs. 11 full leaves with one half leaf. Reversed and double wound eyes. Heavy critters. Shippers nicked them up silly. Some paint work to do.

Having lived with the Jet Performance 170 F thermostat for awhile now I'm pleased as punch. Suits my driving style and requirements both. Gathered data for my files on water and oil temps vs speed in a simulated 4.10:1 gear (manual 5) over the range of 40 to 70 mph. Gasket stayed on. Doing this test is how the first one shed it's skin.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · October 14, 2017

I get a call from the shop early yesterday telling me my space has not been vacated by the previous holder. A one day delay and actually that’s a good thing. It’s been raining here for a week and yesterday was the first day dry enough to do some clean up and the interior needed it bad. Wife says the truck smells like an old goat. That would be puppy gas I’m sure. I gave the interior a top to bottom clean and disinfect. Shampoo the seats and Meguiars the plastic and rubber. Clean and sent the cabin air filter and clean the window film.

It’s four AM and time to catch a nap. Drop of is 7 AM. My guts are churning in anticipation. I've been waiting all summer and these last few hours are the worse.

Grumpy Bear · October 18, 2017

Jason called. All instructions read and punch list reviewed last night. Started break down today. Preassembly has started. Pressing bushings into spring eyes. Painting knuckles. Touch up of shipping damage. Lots of before measurements to take as well. Targeting Thursday completion. Going to drop in tomorrow AM for a look see. Maybe photos if there is anything to see.

1SLOW1500 · October 18, 2017

Interest on the alignment specs. I was told different by R&D and the shop working on my truck. However I'm a crew cab .

I spent more money and time then I ever thought on this. 3 days on parts and changes and 2 times to the alignment shop. They claim it is the best they can do.

LEFT Right

-.6 camber -.8

4.0 caster 2.8

.05 toe .03

Front

.3 cross camber - in spec

1.2 cross caster -out of spec

-.1 cross SAI

.08 total toe- in spec

I only need to fix the caster on the left side as spec range is 1.9-3.9 I have 4.0 but the cross caster is out 1.2 also. I have 1" lowering springs and a 2" spindle. Crazy it got so far out. also add 4955 +2 to -2 camber bushings It got camber in spec but caster is no good. May buy caster cam plates also as the factory plates are maxed.

Grumpy Bear · October 18, 2017

1SLOW1500

Yikes!! That is a huge cross camber. Do you find it odd that lowering the front, which takes positive caster out, put your caster adjustment at maximum positive caster? Something is wrong there.

Do you have another alignment shop in you area with a good reputation? When I see toe numbers that are not a dead match I see a mechanic pitching horseshoes and happy with close enough. Are you? I'm just say'n. They are you tires and it's your family's safety.

On the camber. Yes that is in factory spec. It's also more than a half degree which can be hard on tires. You mentioned you already are using extended camber bolts. Have a conversation with Ben and Filthy Motorsports. No reason you can't have much better than you have. UCA's maybe? Now I'm tossing horseshoes. LOL

Edited October 18, 2017 by Grumpy Bear
Change of thought.

1SLOW1500 · October 18, 2017

Belltech and Bell tire say these numbers are good other than the camber. But state " camber doesn't matter at all with tire wear, only road fell". Bell tech R&D is getting a picture of my alignment sheet and come back with a solution. Don't see how any more camber would help me as that was the first thing they offered.

We have a semi truck alignment and frame repair shop local that is amazing I may go there but shit I paid $100 to Bell tire. for these numbers. UGH the $2000+ lowering kit.

Issue is also that the 24" rims, I drove to 6 shops and called another 4 and no one but this one place could do it. Well this is what they did.

First time they tried I had -1.2 and -1.5 camber said that was fine. And it maybe but I see high tire wear at those numbers in my future. Odd thing is with the +/-2 offset bushings the guy said the cams are still maxed but that now we have the good camber numbers so we said oh well and moved on. Alignment shop said to get adjustable upper offset ball joints so he can change caster and then push the camber back out to fix it.

Grumpy Bear · October 18, 2017

4 hours ago, 1SLOW1500 said:

Belltech and Bell tire say these numbers are good other than the camber. But state " camber doesn't matter at all with tire wear, only road fell". Bell tech R&D is getting a picture of my alignment sheet and come back with a solution. Don't see how any more camber would help me as that was the first thing they offered.

We have a semi truck alignment and frame repair shop local that is amazing I may go there but shit I paid $100 to Bell tire. for these numbers. UGH the $2000+ lowering kit.

Issue is also that the 24" rims, I drove to 6 shops and called another 4 and no one but this one place could do it. Well this is what they did.

First time they tried I had -1.2 and -1.5 camber said that was fine. And it maybe but I see high tire wear at those numbers in my future. Odd thing is with the +/-2 offset bushings the guy said the cams are still maxed but that now we have the good camber numbers so we said oh well and moved on. Alignment shop said to get adjustable upper offset ball joints so he can change caster and then push the camber back out to fix it.

Got yourself a major project there. I feel for you, really. Nothing ever goes as smoothly as you hope it will.

Did you mean caster where I highlighted camber in the quote?

Caster, as you know, keeps the trucks wheels wanting to go forward. It doesn't take more than a degree and a half or so to do that job. Five things happen when camber gets at the top of the spec. Actually over 2.5 or so.

1.) In corners at speed the truck doesn't want to change direction. It understeers and makes the steering effort higher than it needs to be. Trucks being nose heavy don't need any more help plowing in the corners when your turbo is on the hunt.

2.) Anytime you're not pointed straight down the road, which is allot, caster is laying the tire on the edge that is in the direction of steer. You can picture this easier if you think in terms of extremes such as 45 degrees of positive castor. If you can't turn your wheels to full lock and look. If that still doesn't seal the deal think about the " parking lot speed" difference in front tire geometry between a choppers laid out forks and a trails bike nearly straight up and down forks.

3.) It hammers the bees wax out of the shocks. Again think in terms of extremes. Like 90 degrees positive caster and hitting a 4" bump on 2" of sidewall. That gets translated to you. Feels nasty. The tire is no longer going 'over' the bump it's 'running into' the bump. I took over a degree out and it made a real difference in ride I could feel. I should take out more.

4.) When at the spec top any load in the box puts the caster out of spec.

5.) It stresses every connection in the suspension more and just wears parts out faster than it needs to.

Your right, you camber is indeed in spec. I was just saying for a street ride your tire wear would improve if it were closer to middle spec. If you don't mind, it don't matter.

1SLOW1500 · October 20, 2017

You are right I did mean Caster. I will email R&D at Belltech and see what they say or can do about it. Thanks

Grumpy Bear · October 20, 2017

Edited November 11, 2017 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · October 20, 2017

So far it’s been one thing after another. We have no idea what sort of protective oil is used by Bell on these raw knuckle castings but it took days of multiple solvent baths to get is all soaked out of the metals pores well enough to get paint to stick but done it is and they look good. I miss real old time caustic tanks.

The step bars were in the way and had to be removed to sit the lift proper (balance) and being tied to the cab mounts the original installer in his infinite wisdom evidently didn’t believe in anti-seize. Four new mounts.

So I’m hands off and just looking around. Doing so I find a half dozen more body plugs missing or half a**ed installed. Mostly in the cabs lower section. Prime resting areas for cab corner and running board rot. Not drain holes but filling holes higher up. I’m also finding more places the undercoating tech missed by a mile. Really, does anyone actually care about the work they do or does negligence and apathy actually have a working wage?

Coming up on the 50K trans/diff service I note there isn’t a drain plug on the pan. Pure genius. Nor the diff cover for that matter an no low point plug in the casting either. The 8.625 gets all the best GM has to offer. It’s important. There will be no ‘power flush’.

But not all bad news. What exactly is the problem supposed to be in removing the bolts from the rear hangers? Remove the lower bolt first and let down the spring and hanger together then separate them. Why beat the box to death? I’m embarrassed that I took the consensuses opine instead of crawling under and looking. I look like the village idiot.

More good news. All premeasurements done gave a few happy surprises. And I’m going to say first most of the doom and gloom that formed my expectations I got on truck forums. Okay then. The initial alignment is pretty much dead middle spec and as a happy-stance all adjusters are nearly dead center. All four corners are equal ride height to their respective positions. The only thing a bit amiss is a 0.15 degree out of square rear axle to the trucks centerline. We fix this. We have room to play and the replacement parts have even more designed in adjustments. I also own a die grinder. LOL.

My head wrench has some killer carbide blades that made short work of the partially hardened ball joint studs. A much cleaner and squarer cut than cut off wheels and allot less heat. You win some, you lose some. It’s the nature of projects.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Grumpy Bear
Error correction

1SLOW1500 · October 21, 2017

Wow I would have given you Spindles if I knew you needed them. They have less than 5000 miles on them and no rust. I don't need them and was just going to trash them.

Grumpy Bear · October 21, 2017

Monday, June 26^th 2017. That was the day of first contact with Filthy Motorsports about this suspension makeover. Yea, over four months ago. Seventeen long weeks to the day.

Not much of this was straight off the self like it could be pulled as an item from stock. The basics however were and it became a blend of ‘one off’ truly custom manufactured and some ‘cherry picked’ production items.

Unless your name is Arlen Ness, Chip Foose or Jay Leno this is the way it goes. A project like this for the masses is an exercise in patients, commitment and humility. You learn who you aren’t pretty quick. Get over it and get on with it. Get your wallet ready for some serious abuse.

The biggest problem has been ME. Ya just don’t know what you don’t know and won’t know it until your tripping over it. They spend as much time waiting on you as you do waiting on them. As careful as I was I still missed critical items that cost me hundreds of extra dollars. Then again I insisted on certain aspects of the project that cost a good deal of time and money to engineer and manufacture and then install now to prevent spending huge sums latter.

For instance I could have accepted the ‘canned’ version and had a truck that sat with the factory rake but two inches taller in all four corners. Doing so would have saved me about grand in cash and six weeks of time. It’s what most do and so that’s what they build the shelf parts to do.

Oh and I still don’t know if my expectations will be met do I? :-)

Edited October 24, 2017 by Grumpy Bear
Error correction

Grumpy Bear · October 23, 2017

Finished charting the oil temperature data collected on all three thermostats.

This was part of a broader study that included various oils as well and even some alternate viscosities. It also included a range of ambient temperatures from 70 to 100 F. So for sake of clarity and disclosure 207 F data is with Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W20. The 180 F data with the Mobil 1 5W20 and finally the 170 F thermostat with Red Line 5W20. I chose the data points collected from the 75 F ambient data for this chart. Honesty ambient temperatures had little effect on the outputs excepting a more rapid warm up. I hazard a guess this is due to the generous radiator size and the in tank oil cooler.

The effects of those brands on temperature holding the thermostat a constant was published in an earlier post with the 180 F thermostat. I only had one data set using 5W30 and never published it. It was ridiculous and I quit collecting data before the entire speed range had been run. Each cooler thermostat is matched with the next cooler running oil thus ranging a worse to best scenario.

Lastly the data from 40 to 70 mph is actual data logged and the last two points, 75 & 80 mph, are the trend lines projected positions. That trend line was a 3 point polynomial best fit curve with an R = .9999-1.0. Read that nearly perfect fit.

The object of this exercise was to find a thermostat and oil combination that allowed me to obtain an operational oil temperature that fell between 180 F and 210 F for the speeds and loads I run under the ambient conditions that prevail in my area.

Notes: The overall reduction in oil temperatures reflected the reduction in water temperature less than perfectly but directionally allowed a bit more than a 30 F oil temperature reduction when in concert with the cooler running Red Line oil. The two combine allowed for a reduction in viscosity grade of one SAE unit. That is I can run 5W20 instead of 5W30 and maintain the same operational absolute viscosity cSt.

The goal was to find a combination that would significantly increase engine life while taking nothing from economy of operation. Half that goal has already been realized in a net gain in fuel economy of roughly 5%. The later time will reveal but as this is not my first barn dance, unless I total the truck or die, it’s pretty much in the bag.