Still Not Sold On A Catch Can? Check Here...

[crushNchowda]

On 12/22/2015 at 1:21 PM, SMiller said:

I give up, some just don't get it and that's fine.

 

For those that think Audi or Ford having this issue and GM won't, there is no difference in the design, a DI motor is a DI motor, there are NO differences, some have been having this issue for a while and the reason is because they have been using the DI motor a lot longer.

 

Do I think a catch can will 100% solve this problem NO but I think it will slow it down 90% which will probably be how long I have the truck.

Yeah you're right, no difference in Audi BMW or Ford motors OH WAIT - aren't they typically running smaller displacement FI setups? Yeah you're right though, couple snails or a SC on a V4/V6 = same shit as a small block N/A V8 - apples to apples really 

 

Maybe the earlier versions of these DI engines - especially BMW - had more issues w/ carbon build up than later versions. Maybe the turbo has something to do with it - maybe not. Maybe - like I've said numerous times - I could care less about carbon buildup on my valves since I've already dropped a couple along w/ bent pushrods & avoided costly repairs by having GM foot the bill w/ the last of the 100k warranties in my 2015 truck......IMO IF this buildup is an issue, I won't even bother w/ it until its past 100k warranty period b/c I do not want to run the chance of GM voiding it. Additionally, I have pointed out a number of times on this site - how many trucks have actually had an ISSUE from carbon buildup, a documented issue - not something where the truck went in for 1 thing & valves/intake were cleaned as a preventative measure during part of another fix? On the other hand how many trucks have had issues w/ lifters/valves/cam/springs/pushrods associated w/ failure of one or more parts of the crap AFM system? 

 

That being said - much more likely the engine will have an issue from that mechanical failure than carbon build up- when that does happen (again- and it most likely will) it'll be outta warranty anyhow & if I'm still driving it I'll swap all the supposedly carbon cooked valves/lifters/pushrods etc. for upgraded DOD-delete cam kit & kill 2 birds w/ 1 stone.....

[300 Blackout]

Does anyone have any real life examples of intake valve carbon build up based on different types of oils?  conventional, vs semi authentic, vs the different types of synthetics. etc?

Unfortunately, objective data is limited on the impact of catch cans on build-up regardless of oil, fuel, etc... Most is based on theory and logic. That is why this debate seems to be never ending between those who swear by them and those who question their usefulness. To perform objective testing of the impact of a catch can would be quite time consuming and costly. Then to try and replicate the test changing only the variable of the oil type would be even more costly. I don’t think the info you’re looking for is out there.

 

If you’re looking for info only related to oil type without anything related to catch cans, I honestly don’t know if that info is out there.

 

[diyer2]

Lets keep this simple.

It can't hurt the motor so why not if you are going to keep your truck and put a lot of miles on it.

Any can is better than no can.

In the scheme of things the cost is minimal compared to other things.

 

 

 

[Centex14]

$200-300 for beer or $200-300 for a catch can. I’d rather have the beer.


2014 z71 LTZ
Volant Intake
Borla Exhaust
Diablo
Bilstein 5100
Rough Country Level

[pronstar]

Lets keep this simple.
It can't hurt the motor so why not if you are going to keep your truck and put a lot of miles on it.
Any can is better than no can.
In the scheme of things the cost is minimal compared to other things.
 

I’m gonna rotate the air in my tires
Why not?
It doesn’t cost a penny and can’t hurt anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[migizi]

From what I have gathered so far, the catch can is an effective tool in reducing the contaminate's that recycle back into the combustion chamber and that is only a plus for your overall performance. But how much of a plus?

As far as reducing intake valve carbon buildup - I have almost 115,000 miles [and didn't have to clean the valves every 30k as some claim] on my ride and no noticeable degradation in performance, NOR have I experienced any miss/stumbling or any other symptoms that have been discussed here. I do take it to my dealer for the oil changes (between 3-4k on this rig) and it's always full synthetic dexos). 

 

If/When I experience carbon/intake valve related issues, I will take a closer look at this mod, but until then...

[Centex14]

From what I have gathered so far, the catch can is an effective tool in reducing the contaminate's that recycle back into the combustion chamber and that is only a plus for your overall performance. But how much of a plus?
As far as reducing intake valve carbon buildup - I have almost 115,000 miles [and didn't have to clean the valves every 30k as some claim] on my ride and no noticeable degradation in performance, NOR have I experienced any miss/stumbling or any other symptoms that have been discussed here. I do take it to my dealer for the oil changes (between 3-4k on this rig) and it's always full synthetic dexos). 
 
If/When I experience carbon/intake valve related issues, I will take a closer look at this mod, but until then...

Ditto.


2014 z71 LTZ
Volant Intake
Borla Exhaust
Diablo
Bilstein 5100
Rough Country Level

[Doublebase]

On 11/13/2018 at 11:21 AM, crushNchowda said:

Yeah you're right, no difference in Audi BMW or Ford motors OH WAIT - aren't they typically running smaller displacement FI setups? Yeah you're right though, couple snails or a SC on a V4/V6 = same shit as a small block N/A V8 - apples to apples really 

 

Maybe the earlier versions of these DI engines - especially BMW - had more issues w/ carbon build up than later versions. Maybe the turbo has something to do with it - maybe not. Maybe - like I've said numerous times - I could care less about carbon buildup on my valves since I've already dropped a couple along w/ bent pushrods & avoided costly repairs by having GM foot the bill w/ the last of the 100k warranties in my 2015 truck......IMO IF this buildup is an issue, I won't even bother w/ it until its past 100k warranty period b/c I do not want to run the chance of GM voiding it. Additionally, I have pointed out a number of times on this site - how many trucks have actually had an ISSUE from carbon buildup, a documented issue - not something where the truck went in for 1 thing & valves/intake were cleaned as a preventative measure during part of another fix? On the other hand how many trucks have had issues w/ lifters/valves/cam/springs/pushrods associated w/ failure of one or more parts of the crap AFM system? 

 

That being said - much more likely the engine will have an issue from that mechanical failure than carbon build up- when that does happen (again- and it most likely will) it'll be outta warranty anyhow & if I'm still driving it I'll swap all the supposedly carbon cooked valves/lifters/pushrods etc. for upgraded DOD-delete cam kit & kill 2 birds w/ 1 stone.....

So what you're saying is, you realize there will be carbon buildup on your valves, but you're planning on waiting until you have to tear apart the top end because of a AFM failure...then you'll clean or replace the valves? Am I getting all this right? So I guess the question I have is, why not just use a catch can and prevent some of it? I realize you expect major engine failure and will just take care of the problem whenever that is, but a catch can won't hurt anything, won't cost much and might actually help carbon deposits and the problems THAT can cause (I know you're saying it isn't causing problems on these trucks both short and long term, but you also admit that in other brands it does cause problems)...misfires, hesitation, power and fuel economy loss. Just because these trucks are not gathering headlines because of carbon buildup - probably because of AFM failures - doesn't mean that it isn't/doesn't happen. These things are pretty new in the grand scheme of things, and as stated, they have had other bigger issues.

 

It probably would take an average person ten minutes to remove a catch can and install their stock PCV valve house. I don't think voiding a warranty would be an issue with a half capable mechanically inclined person...if not? Yeah I could see it being a problem. So I get that.

 

Another thing (regarding the carbon buildup). This is more of a "long term" type issue that will arise. Most people say they'll keep their trucks long term, but then they trade them in and buy the latest and greatest. And most people say they're going to be putting half a million miles on their trucks, but end up turning them into garage queens. So aside from the fleet and construction guy's (who probably could care less about misfires and fuel economy, as their trucks are packed with a 1,000 pound payloads, bombing up and down the highway everyday, putting 50k a year on the truck), not a ton of people quite frankly care, or probably could be bothered. It's not for everyone. I find it somewhat rare to see people use these trucks as cars, in the sense they're putting 30,000 commuting miles a year on these things and actually think about fuel economy, misfires, optimal engine operation. I do, but I don't personally know many who drive as much in a truck everyday. And I don't know many that plan to keep it to 300,000 miles plus. For people who do, myself included? A catch can is cheap insurance. Nothing major. For the others? Probably a waste of time.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Doublebase

[Z45]

How do you know that what is shown in the catch can is not from normal condensation forming in the can?    To know you would have to inspect / empty the can after every drive cycle and not let it accumulate for miles and months.   Has anyone experimented like that?

The can is going to cool down much faster than the engine and is more sustainable to condensation.

Edited November 15, 2018 by elcamino

[300 Blackout]

How do you know that what is shown in the catch can is not from normal condensation forming in the can?    To know you would have to inspect / empty the can after every drive cycle and not let it accumulate for miles and months.   Has anyone experimented like that?
The can is going to cool down much faster than the engine and is more sustainable to condensation.

I think most people acknowledge they are accumulating water condensation. Some theorize that by mounting it above the manifold it keeps it warm and reduces how much water condensation they capture. The fact is oil is also being captured by these cans and reducing oil exposure to the intake and valves is the goal (and combustion chamber for that matter). I’m of the mindset that it does not negatively impact the engine and accept that objective testing is unavailable to prove exactly how effective the cans are at reducing valve fouling, etc...

[SS502]

On 11/1/2018 at 5:32 AM, Nitrousbird said:

Has anyone had a warranty issue with a catch can?  23 years of driving and I finally broke down and bought a new truck with a warranty I'd rather not void.  I'm all for modding vehicles but not to kill my warranty is a priority - I'm not looking to wrench on this truck beyond necessary (non-warranty voiding mods) and normal maintenance items.

 

I fully understand the need for a CC.  I drive one of the notoriously bad valve gunkers, a BMW 335i (E92 6MT) with the N54 engine.  BMW even makes a walnut blasting adapter for this motor.  I put a catch can on it a couple days after I got it and also upgraded the PCV valve.  

Okay guys and gals...I contacted GM and here (as of this morning 15 Nov 2018) was their reply:

 

Thank you contacting GMC Customer Assistance Center.  We appreciate the time you have taken to write us with regard to your inquiry.  We understand that you would like to know if installing oil catch can to your vehicle will cause an issue or will void your warranty.

Please be advice all vehicles released from the assembly plant are inspected to ensure they comply with government specifications, as well as standards established by the Engineering Department.  GMC does not recommend modifying a car or truck after it has left the assembly plant. 

Changes may adversely affect the vehicle and possibly result in operational problems.  Modifying the vehicle could void the manufacturer's warranty on specific items covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.  For further support, please consult your local dealer.  GMC established the dealership’s parts department as a comprehensive resource for all parts information concerning pricing, availability, and compatibility.

We hope this information has been helpful to you. 

If you should need to contact us in the future, please call our GMC Customer Assistance Center at 1-866-790-5600.  Customer Relationship Specialists are available Monday through Saturday from 8:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M. Eastern Time.


Thank you again for taking the time to contact GMC.


GMC Customer Assistance

So read that as you will, I would certainly REMOVE mine prior to any dealership visit!

[Nitrousbird]

1 hour ago, SS502 said:

Okay guys and gals...I contacted GM and here (as of this morning 15 Nov 2018) was their reply:

 

GM FORM LETTER

So read that as you will, I would certainly REMOVE mine prior to any dealership visit!

Why would you even bother asking GM in that way?  You know they are going to say that about any modification, even if it was specifically a catch can from a similar GM motor.  They are ALWAYS going to say that for everything.  They would say that even if you replaced a known high-volume failure point item with a better product.

 

EXAMPLE:  The GM GEN-III+ small blocks are extremely well known for having the exhaust manifold bolts fail/break.  It's not an if, but a when - they will all do it eventually.  Some can be easily extracted, others require pulling the heads or if on the corners, using devices that were created to mimick the bolt.  I've had it happen on multiple engines and expect my L86 will be no different.  If you ever asked GM if it was okay to install ARP exhaust manifold bolts, torqued to the proper 18 ft/lbs, their answer would be absolutely no.  Even though it is a far superior product with zero chance of harming anything and correcting GM's flaw of using inferior bolts to save a buck.  

 

The question was whether anyone had a warranty issue, not whether GM supports the use of a catch can.  Of course they don't - it doesn't benefit them at all.  After installing my CC and seeing it takes under 5 minutes to pull it, there is zero reason for me to deal with the chance of a dealership hassle when I can just yank it off before bringing it in.  My question was under the assumption it would be harder to pull...such as the CC on my BMW, which takes far longer to pull and put back to stock.

[SS502]

32 minutes ago, Nitrousbird said:

Why would you even bother asking GM in that way?  You know they are going to say that about any modification, even if it was specifically a catch can from a similar GM motor.  They are ALWAYS going to say that for everything.  They would say that even if you replaced a known high-volume failure point item with a better product.

 

EXAMPLE:  The GM GEN-III+ small blocks are extremely well known for having the exhaust manifold bolts fail/break.  It's not an if, but a when - they will all do it eventually.  Some can be easily extracted, others require pulling the heads or if on the corners, using devices that were created to mimick the bolt.  I've had it happen on multiple engines and expect my L86 will be no different.  If you ever asked GM if it was okay to install ARP exhaust manifold bolts, torqued to the proper 18 ft/lbs, their answer would be absolutely no.  Even though it is a far superior product with zero chance of harming anything and correcting GM's flaw of using inferior bolts to save a buck.  

 

The question was whether anyone had a warranty issue, not whether GM supports the use of a catch can.  Of course they don't - it doesn't benefit them at all.  After installing my CC and seeing it takes under 5 minutes to pull it, there is zero reason for me to deal with the chance of a dealership hassle when I can just yank it off before bringing it in.  My question was under the assumption it would be harder to pull...such as the CC on my BMW, which takes far longer to pull and put back to stock.

I simply asked if it would void my warranty, nothing more nothing less. Decipher their response as you wish. I’ve only read generic replies to warranty questions, like it depends on the dealership, service manager or the ever popular MM act has you covered. I take mine off (before I ever inquired) before a visit. Go read the “Catch can explained” thread, I did what one of the lifetime members suggested anyone with warranty remaining do...nobody ever responded with the answer GM gave so I did it and posted it. Sorry if I upset you by sharing a response from GM about a very specific question. 

 

I do apologize for using your post to try and help, it was the first warranty question I came across w/o reading every other post again ? 

Edited November 16, 2018 by SS502

[BigBlueLB756]

GM says, "  Modifying the vehicle could void the manufacturer's warranty on specific items covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty. "

 

FYTP

 

Sincerely,

BigBlueLB756

[Grumpy Bear]

6 hours ago, BigBlueLB756 said:

GM says, "  Modifying the vehicle could void the manufacturer's warranty on specific items covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty. "

 

FYTP

 

Sincerely,

BigBlueLB756

IF they could prove it caused the issue being considered for warranty work. 

 

They can't. It' won't. They won't even try. They will use words like 'could' or 'may'. Know why? Because IT IS WORKING!!!!  

 

Why is this so hard????