Conversation with a union guy

[calgator73]

Took the family camping here in Williamsburg and my neighbor came over to chat. He asked what year etc and I asked him about his 06. He really liked the new trucks. Anyway I brought up the issue with the union and gm along with my hopes that the union can somehow not screw this up.

 

Turns out he's a union guy from a uaw family. That started a new conversation about some of the topics discussed here.

 

1. He seems to agree that there is at least the appearance of a conflict of interest when dues are a percentage of gross.

 

2. He seems to get the idea that if the union miscalculates jobs could move overseas or more people will be replaced by technology.

 

3. Auto workers are by and large unskilled labor.

 

Very friendly guy.

 

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[Spurshot]

This is a hot button political subject for both union members and non-union workers and management. I'm pretty sure we have a good number of both here. It's likely to get heated. Just keep it civil.

[KARNUT]

There may be a few things that can be said about unions, unskilled labor is not one. The union people I've been around take their jobs and work seriously and are well trained.

 

 

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[SnakeEyeSS]

There may be a few things that can be said about unions, unskilled labor is not one. The union people I've been around take their jobs and work seriously and are well trained.

 

 

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Both are true

 

Watch the how it's made type of videos on modern auto plants.....there are some VERY skilled guys, but there are some that don't need more brainpower than a lizard. LITERALLY guys that do NOTHING but look at a product to make sure it's in place and push a button. I have a UAW in

-law that retired from a plant and would back that up.

[patriot]

The guy that run the auto lug wrench comes to mind.

 

Big, automatic torque wrench that self-feeds lug nuts. All he does is line it up and hit the trigger. The machine does the rest.

Wanna bet a video-guided robotic arm could do the same thing cheaper?

 

A decent ME could design one without too much trouble.

[Spurshot]

At the risk of stepping into quicksand here, I'll just add that over the decades, automation, robotics, etc., has been implemented on most of the skilled job functions. It was not driven by technology, but rather facilitated by technology. What drove it was competition to bring higher quality products to the market at lower cost to all of us.

 

Many of the jobs that remain that are performed by people are unskilled or semi-skilled functions that can be trained without trade schooling or years of apprenticeship. Skilled labor categories include jobs like machinist, tool maker, machine repair tech, welder, etc..

[calgator73]

At the risk of stepping into quicksand here, I'll just add that over the decades, automation, robotics, etc., has been implemented on most of the skilled job functions. It was not driven by technology, but rather facilitated by technology. What drove it was competition to bring higher quality products to the market at lower cost to all of us.

 

Many of the jobs that remain that are performed by people are unskilled or semi-skilled functions that can be trained without trade schooling or years of apprenticeship. Skilled labor categories include jobs like machinist, tool maker, machine repair tech, welder, etc..

That's precisely what we were discussing. Nobody doubts that most line workers are busting their butts. But in the long term their jobs are being eliminated. It's a big societal issue. How do we maintain global competitiveness and maintain a standard of living for our workers.

 

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[Spurshot]

My take is Employment in the U.S. has predominantly been at the demand of the market, with a few exceptions. I'll include self employment in that. I'm guessing it's always been an issue of our society because of that.

 

But it also makes the "brass ring" accessible to the masses. Not unlike our primitive ancestors, our society still requires survival instincts, aptitude, and actions. The most fortunate who have the first two in sufficient strength, and act upon them, will have the best chance at the brass ring.

 

Getting a job and keeping it, has always been a struggle for everyone, not just the typical segments of society we all think of. I, myself, have had more jobs than I can literally recall. I'm going to say well over 20, maybe 30. I've worked right alongside bright and talented engineers who had potential for higher levels in their fields, and watched them loose everything (wives, homes, family, and jobs) because they lacked self discipline. These are among the brightest and most educated people in our society.

[BlackZ71Silverado]

There is not much skill involved when working an assembly line like the UAW workers. Most of the skill has been replaced by robots, like stated in an above post. If you watch any video of Ford or GM plant tours, you will see for yourself. The only "skill" positions are really the engineers if you think about it. They are the ones who put time in, have gone to school, and are basically the brains behind the vehicles and how they work.

 

There is no education needed to learn how to snap parts into place and use a screw gun, anybody can do it after being trained. I worked part time (summer months) in high school at a motorhome plant (Fleetwood) and have experienced the assembly line process first hand. Very few people out of the hundreds that were employed there had any type of special skill that had to be learned through years of school. The workers 'trained' you, and that was it, very simple.

[j-ten-ner]

I don't know much about Unions, neither in North America nor Germany.

And I don't want to judge.

 

What I know is that auto makers in Germany offer apprenticeship programs. From administration over engineering to sales, you name it.

Of course there is an initial investment in the people necessary. But it'll pay off.

Those people are trained on the manufactures products. That's the advantage for the car maker.

But they also receive basic skills they can use anywhere else. At the end every graduate will have a certification what allows him/her to find work outside of the plant.

 

As far as I know every production line worker is a trained/skilled worker.

The only reason that he is operating 2 screwdrivers for 8 hrs is the pay. And the benefits of course.

 

What happens to a North American unskilled production line worker when he loses the job?

Is the Union looking into stuff like that too?

 

so long

j-ten-ner

 

Edit: Just for reference. An apprenticeship in Germany takes 3 years from start to finish.

[calgator73]

I don't know much about Unions, neither in North America nor Germany.

And I don't want to judge.

 

What I know is that auto makers in Germany offer apprenticeship programs. From administration over engineering to sales, you name it.

Of course there is an initial investment in the people necessary. But it'll pay off.

Those people are trained on the manufactures products. That's the advantage for the car maker.

But they also receive basic skills they can use anywhere else. At the end every graduate will have a certification what allows him/her to find work outside of the plant.

 

As far as I know every production line worker is a trained/skilled worker.

The only reason that he is operating 2 screwdrivers for 8 hrs is the pay. And the benefits of course.

 

What happens to a North American unskilled production line worker when he loses the job?

Is the Union looking into stuff like that too?

 

so long

j-ten-ner

 

Edit: Just for reference. An apprenticeship in Germany takes 3 years from start to finish.

Great questions

 

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[Spurshot]

Comparing German company employment to American has to include recognition of their long history of a socialistic society. That's a whole different topic.

 

If I were to advise a young person on careers and employment, I'd say: Your employment is your responsibility, period. Be ready to continuously invest in your employment.

 

With countries becoming more integrated in the global market, expecting that you can get a good job for life is unrealistic. It's becoming the norm for people to change careers multiple times.

[white1500]

Did anyone else read the title as "conversation with an onion guy"?

 

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[j-ten-ner]

Comparing German company employment to American has to include recognition of their long history of a socialistic society. That's a whole different topic.

 

If I were to advise a young person on careers and employment, I'd say: Your employment is your responsibility, period. Be ready to continuously invest in your employment.

 

With countries becoming more integrated in the global market, expecting that you can get a good job for life is unrealistic. It's becoming the norm for people to change careers multiple times.

 

I'm totally with you on that it is everyone's own responsibility to make their living.

 

It was not my intention to compare. It was more like an intro to the questions at the end of my post.

 

The way I see it, it never hurts to look beyond the fence.

And I think it could be beneficial for the car makers too. And for the society.

 

so long

j-ten-ner

[jimlem]

 

 

Jtenner-

"I don't know much about Unions, neither in North America nor Germany.

And I don't want to judge.

What I know is that auto makers in Germany offer apprenticeship programs. From administration over engineering to sales, you name it.

Of course there is an initial investment in the people necessary. But it'll pay off.

Those people are trained on the manufactures products. That's the advantage for the car maker.

But they also receive basic skills they can use anywhere else. At the end every graduate will have a certification what allows him/her to find work outside of the plant.

As far as I know every production line worker is a trained/skilled worker.

The only reason that he is operating 2 screwdrivers for 8 hrs is the pay. And the benefits of course.

What happens to a North American unskilled production line worker when he loses the job?

Is the Union looking into stuff like that too?

so long

j-ten-ner

Edit: Just for reference. An apprenticeship in Germany takes 3 years from start to finish."

 

@Jtenner

 

Genau, sehr gut gesagt.

 

(sorry messed up on the quoting part)