180 Thermostat Results (With Towing Data)

[kd2dwj]

Sucks that this still isn't available, anyone know if they released a timeline for this to be back in stock, or if anyone else makes a 180* one?

[07Softail]

Sucks that this still isn't available, anyone know if they released a timeline for this to be back in stock, or if anyone else makes a 180* one?

There are others out there that have cooler t-stats. Goolge it. Personally I would stick with the stock t-stat and go with a larger capacity radiator.

 

RT

[TJay74]

There are others out there that have cooler t-stats. Goolge it. Personally I would stick with the stock t-stat and go with a larger capacity radiator.

 

RT

 

That will do nothing for running cooler, the stock stat is a 187° or 192° opening stat, the fans don't even command until 220° in the stock calibration unless the AC is on and even then they are only running at about 20% of full speed.

 

GM runs all of the LSx engines towards the hot side, helps with combustion burn off and helps reduce emission. Bad thing is it also hurts power a bit as well.

[Jon A]

Sucks that this still isn't available, anyone know if they released a timeline for this to be back in stock, or if anyone else makes a 180* one?

 

Yes, unfortunately this one isn't available but there is some good news. Summit is now offering one: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-366-170

 

This has a different gasket design than the Lingenfelter/Jet thermostat which has failed on some people. While I do think 170 is a bit cool to run in the winter time, if you've got some August towing coming up, it would be well worth the $30 and 30 minutes to swap this one in. You could always swap back to stock before winter. Hopefully somebody will have a 180 out soon but if I had a big trip coming up I wouldn't hesitate to do the 170 for the rest of the summer.

 

 

There are others out there that have cooler t-stats. Goolge it. Personally I would stick with the stock t-stat and go with a larger capacity radiator.

 

I don't know of anybody who has run into the limits of the stock radiator yet. Better radiators are quite expensive and in my opinion it would be a waste to get one and let the stock thermostat and fan settings hamstring it.

[Jon A]

Here's an example of some poor souls who need a much better radiator: http://www.f150ecoboost.net/forum/17-f150-ecoboost-towing/12305-over-heating-issue.html

 

Or better yet, a 6.2 swap..... Heh, heh...oops.

[07Softail]

 

That will do nothing for running cooler, the stock stat is a 187° or 192° opening stat, the fans don't even command until 220° in the stock calibration unless the AC is on and even then they are only running at about 20% of full speed.

 

GM runs all of the LSx engines towards the hot side, helps with combustion burn off and helps reduce emission. Bad thing is it also hurts power a bit as well.

So why does GM install a larger capacity radiator in the MAX TOW package instead of a cooler t-stat? It would be a helluva lot cheaper going with the t-stat....and we all know how cheap GM bean counters are!

 

RT

Edited August 8, 2015 by 07Softail

[Spurshot]

A baseline stock setup run would validate how effective the changes were.

 

I don't have plans to tow with this 5.3L truck. But when I towed horses with my 99 1/2 GMT800 2500 6.0L, I never had a problem in heat and grades. That was/is a good truck, among the best, IMO. I will log the next time I travel the I-40 westbound out of Needles when it's 110+. I went thru there a couple weeks ago and the little 5.3 easily held 75 mph up the grade and the temp never moved. It was 106F at the bottom but chilled down to about 103F at the top..

[Spurshot]

So why does GM install a larger capacity radiator in the MAX TOW package instead of a cooler t-stat? It would be a helluva lot cheaper going with the t-stat....and we all know how cheap GM bean counters are!

 

RT

 

It'd also be interesting to see the Max fan schedule.

[iCryWheniGoPoop]

 

It'd also be interesting to see the Max fan schedule.

I would almost bet it's not much, if any different. I'll go pull the calibration on the next one that hits the lot down from my house though and report back.

 

 

My guess would be that GM puts the bigger radiator in because it will keep your temps better maintained with the current factory thermostat that probably keeps the EPA happy and knowing that with the higher tow capacity, there will be more load applied (which you all know makes more heat)

 

Jon A's findings only show that the cooling system is adequate for the loads he was putting on the engine. A thermostat doesn't make the cooling system more efficient, it just allows the cooling system to start working sooner to keep temps at bay. A thermostat basically sets the floor for cooling not the ceiling so if radiator is too small for the load applied, thermostat size won't matter.

[Jennabear]

^^^Exactly. The tstat is a heating device, not a cooling device. The radiator is the cooling device.

 

Sent from my fone.

[Spurshot]

I agree with TDT. But Jon's work is tweaking the onset rate of the system reaching its capacity. By lowering initial temperature at base of a grade and reducing the rate of temperature rise, his truck may make it over most obstacles before overheating.

[iCryWheniGoPoop]

I agree with TDT. But Jon's work is tweaking the onset rate of the system reaching its capacity. By lowering initial temperature at base of a grade and reducing the rate of temperature rise, his truck may make it over most obstacles before overheating.

Yep, $30...30 min... Couple strokes of the keyboard.... And he is much more confident towing. Good write up.

 

I think he sold a lot of people on the T-Stat. I wonder how many will actually support it with a tune though? Lol

[Jon A]

So why does GM install a larger capacity radiator in the MAX TOW package instead of a cooler t-stat? It would be a helluva lot cheaper going with the t-stat....and we all know how cheap GM bean counters are!

 

TDT said it well:

 

 

My guess would be that GM puts the bigger radiator in because it will keep your temps better maintained with the current factory thermostat that probably keeps the EPA happy and knowing that with the higher tow capacity, there will be more load applied (which you all know makes more heat)

 

There are usually reasons OEMs do what they do. They are not always good reasons. They are constrained by design goals the users are not. The high temp thermostat (for emissions) and the too long delayed fan settings (due to the high thermostat and likely very specific NVH goals) makes life much harder on the radiator. It gives the cooling system only a very small window between the point it's running at full capacity and the engine is overheating. I guarantee you Powertrain Engineers are cussing that thermostat during the hot weather testing.

 

Of course there are some sets of conditions that would max my stock radiator. The question is if I will ever run into such a set of conditions. I have long contemplated swapping to the NHT radiator "just in case" and I still may do that at some point. What this test showed is by getting the most out of my stock radiator, those conditions would need to be pretty extreme. I'd need to be towing a lot more weight, up a much longer/steeper hill in much higher temps even to get up to "normal stock operating temps," much less actually overheat.

 

While only a few people here have reported temp issues while towing (unlike the EcoBoosts), some of them already have the NHT radiator. Clearly that shows the bigger radiator isn't the magic bullet when it's still hamstrung by the high temp thermostat and weak fan settings.

 

That's what I meant when I said nobody has found the limits of the stock radiators yet. With a cooler thermostat and better fan settings, if you're still having a problem after that, then yes, a radiator is the next move. Nobody yet has. That's one reason I ran this test--had my water temps exceeded 230 or so I would have concluded I need a bigger radiator because I'm doing everything I can to get the most out of what I have and it still wasn't enough. Had my water temps remained cool but oil temps exceeded 260 or so, I would be fitting an air-oil cooler to the truck. If my tranny temps had been high I would be replacing the current air-oil tranny cooler with a larger one. It's called being data driven.

 

I didn't post the latest Ecoboost overheating thread only for trash talking purposes. It was an example--many of the users piping into that thread who are having issues already have cooler thermostats and have tried custom tunes. It's clear those guys need a bigger radiator to deal with all that heat.

 

But for these trucks, jumping to a $500 radiator before giving a $30 thermostat and better fan settings a try is not understanding how the system works and logically following the data.

[Lawnmower2020]

This probably won't help you guys, but BMW had a very clever solution to exactly this problem. Have your cake and eat it too, as it were. In some models -- mine was an E39 4.4L -- they included a heated thermostat. It had a small heating coil in the wax pellet that was energized in unusually hot conditions so that the normal 200F thermostat instantly became a 180F thermostat, thereby increasing the flow through the radiator dramatically. As a side effect, it simultaneously increased the cooling capacity of the transmission cooler. In all the time I owned that car, I was aware of it activating only a handful of times, and that was during high-90s and stop-go traffic. But it worked like a champ. You have the high temps for emissions AND the cooling capacity of a lower tstat.

 

Of course the chances that one of those BMW tstats would fit a GM product is pretty small, but then, that might be a machine shop visit away. Oddly enough, they were surprisingly cheap as a replacement part.

 

Someone should tell the Ford guys that they should use the passenger compartment heater, set on max heat and fan, as supplemental cooling as the Ford engineers intended.

 

Here's one source for the electrically adjustable thermostat.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Lawnmower2020

[TJay74]

Correct, as said the larger radiator only makes for more consistent cooling temps while under load. Also the 180° stat will not keep you from seeing high temps, it will just allow the radiator to start cooling the coolant sooner since it will allow the coolant to circulate sooner in the system. You can leave the stock fan temps and still be fine, you could also modify the tables some to get cooling sooner as well.

 

Hotter coolant will also heat up the engine as well which then because of heat soak will cause the IAT sensor to see higher temps. On the stock calibration at around 88° reported from the IAT the ECM starts to retard timing at around 1-2° of timing, by the time the IAT reports 100° of intake temps the timing reduction is around 8°. This reduces power output as well, so anything you can to do stabilize temps will help with power production.