Towing in the extreme: My 2014 1500 & 33’ 5th Wheel RV

[Jon A]

Trying to redirect this thing back in a productive direction, can I get some feed back from the rubber suspension helper he mentioned. I use air bags, 100 psi tops, and it's pretty nice. I like it bc like his system, I can get an oem ride when I don't have a trailer. Anyone else use anything different or have any feed back?

 

Yes, this is more helpful. Already mentioned by many, E rated tires well inflated will help. Like you, I prefer air bags and think they'd do a better job than the timbrens. A set of good shocks can help a bunch. With that all bouncing should be eliminated and it'll "feel" like it's handling the load beautifully.

 

For cooling, especially for summer towing, I recommend a 180 degree thermostat (now available from Lingenfelter) and a tune to turn on the fans a much lower temps. This will help not only engine cooling (which I haven't heard of anybody having a problem with) and tranny cooling (rarely problematic as these vehicles do have coolers).

[calgator73]

 

Of all the good information and rhetoric I have received on this post, I think the transmission is indeed of the greatest concern in regard to pushing the payload and or towing weight limits. I think the truck can indeed handle all other aspects of being at or slightly over maximum especially with a mindful driver like myself. A neighbor of mine also thought the trans would take an usual beating.

 

The thing is, I can't help but wonder if the 9.76 axle and the 3.73 axle ratio significantly mitigate the concern for the transmission. Let's keep in mind that the only thing still the same as the prior generation of the Silverado is the frame (its a 2007 design). The Max Trailering axle and added rear options made their first appearance in the 2014 Silverado. So, in the end, perhaps this new 6 speed tranny, with the Max Trailering package can handle a lot more than our fathers' Silverado?

The computer's ability to dial back the abuse is pretty impressive. I think one symptom of a problem would be tranny over temp (these things can go way higher than any of us are comfortable with) and the other would be an obvious shift problem (would still visually check fluid quality just to be safe) Otherwise I wouldn't really be all that concerned. The tranny is the same old 6l80 (i'm sure with modifications) and other than the Mexico build trannys...no real issue. If you haven't seen it driving the way you explained...you likely won't see any issues. I agree to a point with the brake comments. If you're staying within your GCVWR you won't see a problem. The following mitigates the brake upgrade concerns imo.

1. Trailers that we pull have very high aero drag.

2. Properly adjusted trailer brakes will take a lot of the load off (mine are maxed out)

3. Power train braking takes even more of the load off the truck brakes (system calculates heat load and adjusts)

[nards444]

 

And in my opinion, a $70K Duramax is not the right tool to tow a relatively light load 7 times a year. Heavier trailer or 7 times a month? Yes. But right now for his application it would be "underutilized" to put it nicely.

 

 

Im not saying that either. 70k is a stretch when you can get 2500 gassers for close to the same price as a half ton although your really only getting better payload and your towing capacity will not be that much higher with a gasser, a descent diesel can be had for under 60, or used for much less.

 

 

Sure, if you added "driving without insurance" the the list of crimes.... Hopefully nobody here does that. I know, the internet rumor is that they won't cover you if you're a whole pound overweight. Luckily like most, it's just that. Your company should allow you to download your entire policy in a PDF from the website. This allows word searches. For those worried, download it and do a word search for "GVW". Chances are it never appears in your policy.

Not sure having insurance or not insurance would necessarily matter. the act of having insurance doesnt necessarily mean you lose liabiility, but I get what you what you are saying in that not having insurance adds one more thing. But it might be wise to look at your policy as liability is usually only up to 300k, not to many people carry 7 figure liability insurance. So you get sued for say 500k insurance pays 300, your stuck with the 200k. Insurance not necessarily a shield that will block liability, its really only there to cover you in case of loss of property or you are held liable.

 

 

And my point certainly isn't that this vehicle is the best equiped to handle those loads or that he's not pushing the limits and doesn't need to incorporate an extra level of caution, etc. That should all go without saying when you're at the max.

 

What I found objectionable was all the attacks on how "unsafe" he was being based upon weight. There simply aren't facts to back that up. If he is in the ballpark of 300 lbs over 2014 ratings (100 lbs under 2015 ratings) or even close to that, the truth is in virtually every measurable way his setup is safer than much smaller and lighter bumper pulls at which nobody would bat an eyelash because it's so far "under all the max ratings." Not that I have anything against bumper pull trailers, it's just undeniable a 5th wheel/gooseneck is a much better and safer way to pull large amounts of weight.

 

 

I see what you are saying, and the prudent person that does their homework, and a careful driver probably will be fine. But I think the 300lb thing doesnt really matter, because as it sits the truck is going to be over payload. And I think the idea of a 9k lb travel trailer dry isnt necessarily a light load for the weekend warrior. I sitll beleive theres some fantasy numbers in thinking that trailer only goes down the road with 600lbs of extra weight in it,. My guess is that trailer is probably closer to 11k said and done. But then again scale tickets will tell the tale, until then its only theory.

[JamGear]

 

Yes, this is more helpful. Already mentioned by many, E rated tires well inflated will help. Like you, I prefer air bags and think they'd do a better job than the timbrens. A set of good shocks can help a bunch. With that all bouncing should be eliminated and it'll "feel" like it's handling the load beautifully.

 

For cooling, especially for summer towing, I recommend a 180 degree thermostat (now available from Lingenfelter) and a tune to turn on the fans a much lower temps. This will help not only engine cooling (which I haven't heard of anybody having a problem with) and tranny cooling (rarely problematic as these vehicles do have coolers).

 

Thank you for this valuable and useful advice. Could you elaborate on what you believe the 180 Thermostat will actually do to help? I have only a basic knowledge of automotive engine cooling systems.

[DenaliDually]

 

 

 

I suppose anything is possible, but I've never seen this happen my entire life, nor has anybody I know of. Where I'm from they could shut down 1/2 the farmers and ranchers in the land in a single afternoon doing such a thing. Good thing they don't I guess.

 

Agricultural vehicles are exempt within 150 air miles of home, as well as military vehicles.

 

When this happened to you, were you towing an RV in an obviously personal/recreational vehicle? Or a horse trailer or the like? Or were you a pro hauler who hadn't paid enough taxes at registration to carry that much weight?

 

Again, Im not tying to say this guy is goung to be bent over... but if theyre have a slow day or passes him at a rest area and sees 1500 on the door panel its is possible. I was hauling an enclosed blank white gooseneck car hauler. Might as well have been an rv as all of this was personally owned as well. I was driving my 2500 that was debadged. He saw me at a rest area and I guess got curious.

 

 

Sure, if you added "driving without insurance" the the list of crimes.... Hopefully nobody here does that. I know, the internet rumor is that they won't cover you if you're a whole pound overweight. Luckily like most, it's just that. Your company should allow you to download your entire policy in a PDF from the website. This allows word searches. For those worried, download it and do a word search for "GVW". Chances are it never appears in your policy.

 

Thats a really good recommendation.

 

"manufacturers intended use" would also be a good search on that document.

 

2015 Denali 3500 DRW, Michelin ltx, 4x4

[JamGear]

Im not saying that either. 70k is a stretch when you can get 2500 gassers for close to the same price as a half ton although your really only getting better payload and your towing capacity will not be that much higher with a gasser, a descent diesel can be had for under 60, or used for much less.

 

Not sure having insurance or not insurance would necessarily matter. the act of having insurance doesnt necessarily mean you lose liabiility, but I get what you what you are saying in that not having insurance adds one more thing. But it might be wise to look at your policy as liability is usually only up to 300k, not to many people carry 7 figure liability insurance. So you get sued for say 500k insurance pays 300, your stuck with the 200k. Insurance not necessarily a shield that will block liability, its really only there to cover you in case of loss of property or you are held liable.

 

 

I see what you are saying, and the prudent person that does their homework, and a careful driver probably will be fine. But I think the 300lb thing doesnt really matter, because as it sits the truck is going to be over payload. And I think the idea of a 9k lb travel trailer dry isnt necessarily a light load for the weekend warrior. I sitll beleive theres some fantasy numbers in thinking that trailer only goes down the road with 600lbs of extra weight in it,. My guess is that trailer is probably closer to 11k said and done. But then again scale tickets will tell the tale, until then its only theory.

 

Understandably, there has been a lot of commentary about what the "real" weights for my tuck and trailer. I will get this done first thing this coming camping season. Meanwhile, I think it important to further advise that my weight estimates are quite well thought out. Not all RV'ers carry tons of gear in their trailers ready for a 20 person BBQ with tables, chairs, drinks and food. It's just me an my wife and our 22lb dog. My truck bed has nothing other than the hitch in it. My trailer has 4 aluminum folding chairs, a cooler and some tools in the basement storage (I am always mindful of not putting heavy things in there) some pots and pans in the kitchen, a few changes of clothes for me and my wife. I added a couple of table lamps and our pantry is full. But mostly of lighter dry goods, not cans.

 

I appreciate everyone's concern and even their belief that most people do not calculate these kind of things very well or with the proper dose of reality. But I think I have. I was not looking as much for my calculations to be validated as I was to see what others would say... good, bad and ugly. So far, I have learned a great deal and am very grateful for this forum.

[JamGear]

Sticker on lower area, vertical pillar, drivers door jam.

My truck never sweets the needles either, even south Florida with stupid heavy trailers. Quite impressive really.

On the note therink mentioned regarding braking. Definitely keep on top of the trailer brake maintenance and consider cross drilled AND slotted rotors on next brake job. A dramatic upgrade even with over the counter pads. It's all about heat dissipation. I use EBC or Baer. Some will swear you need the entire system, clearly more is better, but a simple rotor swap is a huge improvement imo. I'm still stock on my new truck bc I've only got 12k on her, and gm did a really good job on the exhaust brake.

 

2015 Denali 3500 DRW, Michelin ltx, 4x4

 

Very useful advice. Thanks too for your supportive testimony. Call me crazy, but this truck seems like its more a 2000 than a 1500, so to speak. As I have said a few times here, guys like you and I were the buyer Chevy had in mind when they redesigned the 1500. As Jon A advised, if I were towing this amount of weight 7 or 8 times a month, then my wonderfully over-designed 1500 will very likely wear faster and deeper, ei brakes, trans, axle etc.

[kstruckcountry]

 

Thank you for this valuable and useful advice. Could you elaborate on what you believe the 180 Thermostat will actually do to help? I have only a basic knowledge of automotive engine cooling systems.

The thermostat won't do anything. These pickups know what temp they want the coolant, and will keep it there regardless of the thermostat. The only difference would be the pickup taking longer to warm up. When you're towing the thermostat will be 100% open, so it doesn't matter.

[nards444]

 

Understandably, there has been a lot of commentary about what the "real" weights for my tuck and trailer. I will get this done first thing this coming camping season. Meanwhile, I think it important to further advise that my weight estimates are quite well thought out. Not all RV'ers carry tons of gear in their trailers ready for a 20 person BBQ with tables, chairs, drinks and food. It's just me an my wife and our 22lb dog. My truck bed has nothing other than the hitch in it. My trailer has 4 aluminum folding chairs, a cooler and some tools in the basement storage (I am always mindful of not putting heavy things in there) some pots and pans in the kitchen, a few changes of clothes for me and my wife. I added a couple of table lamps and our pantry is full. But mostly of lighter dry goods, not cans.

 

I appreciate everyone's concern and even their belief that most people do not calculate these kind of things very well or with the proper dose of reality. But I think I have. I was not looking as much for my calculations to be validated as I was to see what others would say... good, bad and ugly. So far, I have learned a great deal and am very grateful for this forum.

I think you have a head on shoulders and have done your homework. My point was that you are very likely over the limits, which carries some liability and added responsibility with it. I travel light to, but a trailer like that has a 50 gallon water tank plus the 6-13 gallon water heater that is full if you havent drained it. Acoording to your table you have 31 gallons your carrying, but with water being 8lbs per gallon, and im sure you fill up, water alone is 400 lbs. Food for the weekend, food items that stay in there constantly, easily 100lbs, clothing for two people for the weekend 50-100lbs. Pots pans, dishes 100lbs, brooms, cleaning agents, soap and shampoos, another 50-100lbs. Camping gear even minimal 50-100lbs. Beer, tiki lights, coolers, tvs that have been added, stuff in the freezer, I truly would be shocked if you have much less than 1000lbs or so in that trailer in added weight even without the water.

 

Travel trailers can be tricky as well with their weight. From what I have read sometimes things like spare tire awning, jacks and such are not added to the book weight. I know my 37ft fifth wheel per the data plate is like 11,200 dry.

[calgator73]

TTs are tricky. My TT was (by catalogue) 9310 with 1177 tongue. Actual dry weight (by sticker): 9975 with 1250 tongue. I'll never trust those pricks again. When I called open range to vent I was told old catalogue etc. The sticker weights are as the trailer is sitting on the lot. Last step prior to hitching and driving away from the factory is to weigh the unit as equipped.

[captras]

Refigure your fuel 26 gallons at 8 lbs. a gallon is way more than 156 lbs. and in the end your overloaded end of story, nothing to talk about.

According to Good Sam RV Travel Guide.....you are incorrect. Curb weight INCLUDES a full tank of full.

 

Base Curb Weight - The nominal weight of a vehicle with standard equipment and a full tank of fuel. It does not include passengers, cargo or optional equipment.

 

http://www.woodalls.com/articledetails.aspx?articleID=153379

[Jon A]

70k is a stretch when you can get 2500 gassers for close

 

That was more of a wink and a nod to the HD guys posting in this thread (who drive Denalis). Personally, you couldn't give me a 3/4 gas truck right now. Crappy towing power to go along with the stiff ride and really crappy mileage to top it all off! Maybe if they put the 6.2 in the 2500 sometime soon it would be a more attractive choice. But with the 6.0 (or Ram's new Hemi which is even worse) I'd limit myself to well below what they're rated to tow. Crawling along on the freeway in 1st gear is not my idea of getting the job done, I don't care if it's rated for the weight or not.

 

Not sure having insurance or not insurance would necessarily matter. the act of having insurance doesnt necessarily mean you lose liabiility, but I get what you what you are saying in that not having insurance adds one more thing. But it might be wise to look at your policy as liability is usually only up to 300k, not to many people carry 7 figure liability insurance. So you get sued for say 500k insurance pays 300, your stuck with the 200k. Insurance not necessarily a shield that will block liability, its really only there to cover you in case of loss of property or you are held liable.

 

It matters a ton for many reasons. First, it's pretty common for the plaintiff to go after only what the insurance will pay...because they know they'll get paid. Secondly, insurance companies don't stay in business by paying out $200-300K on frivolous suits. Before they pay that they'll fight on your behalf in court using their own really good lawyers because they're protecting their money. If they lose and it was for more than your coverage, yes, you still could have some liability. But numerous hurdles need to be cleared before it gets that far. And if it does, the chances are you did something really bad--way, way beyond forgetting to account for your fat uncle sitting in the back seat.

[Jon A]

 

Thank you for this valuable and useful advice. Could you elaborate on what you believe the 180 Thermostat will actually do to help? I have only a basic knowledge of automotive engine cooling systems.

 

The combo (thermostat & reprogram fans) will do a lot.

 

Your radiator doesn’t just cool the engine coolant. It has an engine oil cooler built into one tank and a transmission fluid cooler built into the other. Even if you aren’t having engine temp problems, dropping the average temp of the radiator 20-30 degrees will keep those fluids running cooler.

 

You also have an air-oil transmission cooler mounted in front. Having the fans on at a higher speed more often (higher average duty cycle for a given set of conditions) will take more heat out of your transmission fluid keeping it cooler.

 

While I haven’t heard of anybody having engine overheating issues with these trucks, most don’t monitor their oil temps. It gets hot really fast with these engines if you keep your foot down very long. Keeping it from spiking to such high temps will be better for your engine and the oil.

 

I haven’t had any issues with transmission temp while towing on the highway, but have had it get warm towing at lower speeds on a mountain trail. The speeds were low enough there was very little airflow through the radiator, having the fans turn on sooner would have helped a bunch.

 

Keep in mind I have a 6.2, I think a 5.3 might push the temps a bit more in some situations because it’s having to work harder.

 

The thermostat won't do anything. These pickups know what temp they want the coolant, and will keep it there regardless of the thermostat. The only difference would be the pickup taking longer to warm up. When you're towing the thermostat will be 100% open, so it doesn't matter.

 

The stock thermostat in these engines is obnoxiously high to provide better emissions. It isn’t fully open until after 230 degrees. So if the engine is running 230-240 degrees for a very long sustained period of time, you are correct, a cooler thermostat won’t cure that.

 

However I’ve never had the engine get that warm even briefly, much less for a sustained period of time. Even towing in the summer, at the temps my engine has run the thermostat is only partially open. The cooling system has the ability to keep the engine at a lower temp, but it’s being regulated to the higher temp by the thermostat.

 

For those who have had the engine warm up to 230-240 for brief periods, a cooler thermostat may prevent that from happening all together. A 180 thermostat will be fully open by 205-210 degrees. With a fully open thermostat and the fans programmed to be on 100% by 210 degrees, your cooling system is operating at 100% and it will take many times longer to heat the engine up to 240 than the stock setup (if the conditions are such that it will happen at all, under most conditions it won’t—you’ll have a hard time finding a mountain pass that long).

 

Stock, your thermostat is not open 100% until after 230, at 234 degrees your fans are still only running at less than 50%--they don’t hit 100% until 244 degrees! So with the stock setup, your cooling system isn’t operating at 100% capacity until 244 degrees which leaves you very little breathing room until you hit dangerous temps. And it allows you to cook your oil and tranny fluid. Personally, I’d much prefer to have the cooling system at 100% by 210 degrees when towing in the summer.

[allinplumbing247]

Help my girl friend thinks I bought a junk bucket gmc yukon slt

[peejaykay]

 

No worries. Yeah, going 90 with the 5th wheel is not fun in this truck. But I would not go 90 in a 2500 either. In the flats of the southeast, cruising at 75 is quite nice. Overall, even with my 5th wheel in tow, the truck handles beautifully. It truly does not seem to be under strain at any time while I am towing. Then again, aside from going faster on flat straightaways, I am not pushing the rig anyway.

Dude your trailer tires are rated to 55 or 60mph, max. Go faster than that and your overheating the tires, greatly reducing the lifespan. Don't do it. Look up pictures of 5'er blowout damage and you'll buy a tpms.

 

I tow 10.5k, TT not 5'er. I have over 4,000 miles on the setup and feel comfortable doing it. Some others may not. Yes, I understand it's at the limit which is why I have a Propride 3P hitch. It helps alot...