Towing in the extreme: My 2014 1500 & 33’ 5th Wheel RV

[email protected] · February 7, 2015

Keep in mind that the 20% rule-of-thumb for 5th wheel hitch weights assume a long overhang and or greater lengths. My 5th wheel is a short nose at 33'. Granted, I am indeed pushing it. If I was towing this set up full-time or a majority of the miles the truck is driven, I would be going out to get a 2500 immediately.

Right now this truck is my daily driver. So having the smaller engine gets me better mileage than the HDs and allot more nimbleness on the road. When I do pull the 5th wheel, I drive conservatively; always mindful that my 1500 will not perform as well as a 2500 under extremes. So the trick, when pushing the envelope, is to drive mindfully to avoid and preempt getting into extreme conditions.

Like I say, not trying to flame you but you need to be realistic about your numbers. Excellent chart but you need real numbers, don't convince yourself you're ok and safe because the chart makes sense When you put in arbitrary numbers. Do the same chart and fill it in at the CAT sCale

To clarify though, the overhang has little to do with hitch weight but rather the axle position and weight distribution over the frame. The 20% rule of thumb is not based on a long or short overhang...

You should not concern yourself with combined weight or max trailer weight. DOT will not care. What they will care about is front and rear max axle weights and GVW of the vehicle. Those are written on the door jam and is what will be examined. you will be over on all accounts

As mentioned tires would be a welcomed upgrade.

Again, JonA, his updated 300 lbs are from unconfirmed numbers. All this talk is just talk without 2 scale tickets. Hitched and unHitched

j-ten-ner · February 7, 2015

...All this talk is just talk without 2 scale tickets. Hitched and unHitched...

so long

j-ten-ner

nards444 · February 7, 2015

So you want to take everything a guy owns from him because he was carrying 300 lbs too much. First, my opinion of you just dropped a couple more notches. Second, I'll repeat--good luck with that. Thankfully, it's not quite that easy in this country (yet, anyway) to separate a man from his net worth just because you want to.

You act as if legal precedents are somehow overwhelmingly on your side. If that's the case, please do provide examples that show you're right. Please provide an example of one single case in which a guy was sued and lost everything due to being 300 lbs over payload but doing nothing else wrong. If you have a long list of examples, you must be right.

If you cannot find a single instance of this ever happening in the history of the United States of America...ever...then that's a clue you're in fantasy land. It just doesn't happen in the real world. 1000+ lbs overweight, going 80+ MPH while drunk on bald tires...yeah, you'll get some money from that guy's insurance company. But that's not what we're talking about here.

just one of many stories if you know how to use Google. http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=24262

a pound over weight or 1000, doesn't really matter its negligence either way, just like a drink over .08 is a drink over .08. And whether it be drinking, hauling over weight, excessive speed, if I were to be hit and somebody was killed I would try I may not succeed but yes I would try to separate somebody from their net worth, I would never sue anybody for really anything, but kill my wife or children due to negligence you can bet I would do everything possible to make that person pay, and I don't think theres many here that wouldn't. And in a death case 7 figures isn't out of reality, you may never collect it, but its pretty fair to say that might be the penalty.

Its really pretty simple, look at door jamb, look at weigh tickets if they don't jive nothing else will matter.

Jon A · February 7, 2015

My axel weights are in spec and the truck is Apportioned Plated so it's a higher gross. Kinda sucks bc you need a CDL to drive it even without a trailer.....

I see. You paid a bigger fee at registration so you can carry more weight. I have no problem with that at all, but how is it any different than what I was talking about? How can you lecture the OP about safety for exceeding the GVWR by 300 lbs when you're exceeding it by 800? Does paying the fee make your truck safer? What if his registration says 8,000 lbs like mine? How is that any different than what you're doing?

Jon A · February 7, 2015

Again, JonA, his updated 300 lbs are from unconfirmed numbers. All this talk is just talk without 2 scale tickets. Hitched and unHitched

I agree. We don't know if he's actually over by way more or maybe even less until he weighs it. However, I think useful discussion can still be had based upon an assumed number of 300 lbs.

Jon A · February 7, 2015

just one of many stories if you know how to use Google. http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=24262

Yeah, try again. Even the ninnies on RV.net don't believe that one: http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15129966/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1.cfm The guy was asked numerous times exactly what the driver was cited for, how much overweight he was, etc, and the OP couldn't provide any of that info. So if that's the case you're hitching your wagon to....

a pound over weight or 1000, doesn't really matter its negligence either way, just like a drink over .08 is a drink over .08.

More nonsense. You really think if a streetracer wipes you out at more than 100 MPH you won't have a better case against him than a guy who causes an accident at only 1 MPH over the limit? ~~If the guy has a BAC of .01 you really think you're entitled to his house and retirement fund?~~ Send me a postcard from fantasy land. I'd like to see what it looks like. How's the weather there this time of year?

Its really pretty simple, look at door jamb, look at weigh tickets if they don't jive nothing else will matter.

So what do you think about DenaliDually above? He's a pro hauler who stops at weigh stations every day and gets their blessings. Do you think you should own his house too? Should his entire industry be shut down because you know best?

Edit: I either misread the BAC comment or it changed. You are correct a guy with .09 is in trouble.

high country · February 7, 2015

You guys are subtracting gas in the tank from payload? Good grief.

As I mentioned in the other thread, they changed the GVWR to 7600 for 2015 without changing any mechanical parts. Anybody saying he's being unsafe at a weight below that is simply wrong.

A little common sense goes a long way. Towing a 5th wheel at max GVWR is dramatically safer in every way imaginable than towing a bumper pull at max GVWR. People freak out for some reason when they see it's a 5th wheel when they should actually do the opposite.

LOL don't forget to subtract the hitch itself, it was added after the factory weighed the truck.

These are the threads that separate the men from the Aholes. hehe Don't take everything so seriously.

Isriam · February 7, 2015

i think the point is here that you are pushing the limit. again, we push the limits every day when most of us do 5mph over the speed limit, but its hypocritical to call him out if you're acting like you do no wrong. laws are there to protect people other than you. jon has good points, so does nards. can it work out fine? sure. might it go bad? sure.

DenaliDually · February 7, 2015

I see. You paid a bigger fee at registration so you can carry more weight. I have no problem with that at all, but how is it any different than what I was talking about? How can you lecture the OP about safety for exceeding the GVWR by 300 lbs when you're exceeding it by 800? Does paying the fee make your truck safer? What if his registration says 8,000 lbs like mine? How is that any different than what you're doing?

I never intended to give hime a hard time on safety for 300lbs, only legality. It would be hard to prove 300 lbs after everything is spread out over the highway after Edna from NY cuts him off and he's rolled over in a ditch. My point was that he is trying to be correct and I deal with DOT often. Their not stupid. If they see a 33' behind a 1500 there is chance they will scale him. (Which they do carry in the trunks of their cars) If your over, it is about 1,000+/- bucks, even by 1 lbs depending on the state and when the last time the guy got laid...I know bc I've paid it before I went CDL.

My only issue with the OP was the comment regarding his mpg, he mentioned "when driving fast and aggressive". That is it. When I had that 30k+ rig I was averaging 60 mph, tops. I also do this often and have load range G tires on a dually. It's quite a bit different than speeding in a 1500 imo.

Trying to redirect this thing back in a productive direction, can I get some feed back from the rubber suspension helper he mentioned. I use air bags, 100 psi tops, and it's pretty nice. I like it bc like his system, I can get an oem ride when I don't have a trailer. Anyone else use anything different or have any feed back?

2015 Denali 3500 DRW, Michelin ltx, 4x4

DenaliDually · February 7, 2015

This is extreme towing btw.... that generator on the rear is 12k alone, enclosed trailer in front about 10, then my f550. You should feel the air blast when a semi passes at 80. Full pucker factor![emoji16]

2015 Denali 3500 DRW, Michelin ltx, 4x4

Edit, gen is 8k... got to many to keep track of.

2015 Denali 3500 DRW, Michelin ltx, 4x4

calgator73 · February 10, 2015

Having read though many of the threads here regarding towing with the new Silverado 1500, I noticed there was no real world commentary on maxing out payload and trailer weights. So without further ado and with much hope this thread will spark off copious discussion on the topic...

My rig is a 2014 Silverado 1500 Double Cab 5.3L 4x4 3.73 Max Tow and a 33 foot Grand Design 303RLS 5th wheel. I am curious to hear what some of you think of the chart below. I installed a set of Timbrens to level out the rear and help mitigate the bouncing.

I only tow the 5th wheel 7 or 8 times a year. While towing, I get about 8 miles per gallon running aggressive and fast. Driving the speed limits and taking it easy I get 9 to 10 MPG. What’s really nice is I get 17 MPG around town and 22 MPG on the highway without the trailer. While the 2500 would have definitely been an overall better fit and likely drive a lot better at full-load, 98% of the time I drive unloaded. So the 5.3L 1500 w/Max Trailer seemed the right choice for now.

My 1500 is fine. But it can get a bouncy at times. I am sure the 2500 would not bounce as much. Another thing; the 2500 would has a larger gas tank and more payload headroom to add things like a spare gas tank, tool boxes, etc in the bed. But my wife and I figure that once we retire and travel more with the 5th wheel, we will buy an HD truck.

Please note: The standard rear gross axle rating is 3,950lbs. But the chart shows we get another 150lbs (4,100lbs) with the 3.73 rear-end. So my computations for Max Gross Vehicle Weight with the 3.73 is a total of 7,350. Though I am 332 lbs over max payload, I am 554 lbs under max combined weight.

By the way, for those of you who follow the 20% rule-of-thumb for 5th wheel hitch weights; remember that formula assumes a long overhang, greater lengths and trailer axel position. My 5th wheel is a short nose at 33'. Granted, I am indeed pushing it. If I was towing this set up full-time or a majority of the miles the truck is driven, I would be going out to get a 2500 immediately.

Right now this truck is my daily driver. So having the smaller engine gets me better mileage than the HDs and a lot more nimbleness on the road. When I do pull the 5th wheel, I drive conservatively; always mindful that my 1500 will not perform as well as a 2500 under extremes. So the trick, when pushing the envelope, is to drive mindfully to avoid and preempt getting into extreme conditions. Then again, is that not a good philosophy for all driving anything?

You mentioned running your rig at much higher speeds than I do when towing that kind of weight. If you recall, what were the environmental conditions you were running in and what were your tranny and water temps? Also did you get any hot oil alerts?

thewhitestallion · February 10, 2015

I know the laws are different in every state but here in Texas, if you are not a commercial vehicle you can not get pulled over because your vehicle looks like it is "overloaded". Now CDL drivers can be stopped without probable cause and are subject to an inspection of their rig. and only CDL drivers have to weigh in at the weigh stations. joe blow pulling his 1985 5er with his 89 chevy and family in haul does not have to stop at the scale and has to be pulled over by probable cause. I am not sure if the trooper or any truck enforcement type of LEO's can weigh him and cite him going by the sticker on the vehicle (b/c what if the sticker is not on the door jam how would they know? no law saying you have to keep the stickers on the door jam). To my knowledge (and I could be wrong) they only weigh you to make sure that your papers have the correct weight on it bc they pay on how much weight they carry and to also make sure that if the CDL driver is allegedly carrying 80k lbs that they are not over b/c that is the max they can have on the road in Texas if not the entire nation.

For the guys saying that this guy is going to loose everything or get charged with a crime if he hurts someone b/c he is 300lbs over his limit is just bananas and has been watching too much judge judy. In my opinion no charges would ever be filed for being over weight by that small of an amount. The only "charge" he would get IF he is at fault in the accident is for the class c traffic violation that he obviously made that caused the accident i.e. failure to control speed, ran red light, unsafe speed etc.

now if it goes to civil court that is a little different as you only need 51% of the jurors (or judge) to think that the driver with the trailer should loose any money for allegedly being over weight. However in my non lawyer opinion, good luck proving that in court. just b/c you are over weight does not mean you are automatically subject to loose your retirement in a civil lawsuit. now if he was over his weight limit and was doing 90 on the highway and injured and / or killed someone that is different. but if he is driving 60 and accidently switches lanes and causes an accident or maybe could not stop in time I don't think the 300 pounds is going to make a difference.

But I am just some guy behind a keyboard, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. some will disagree, I know this.

nards444 · February 10, 2015

I dont think anybody including myself was saying something can and will happen. And maybe it sounded like that. I think the point being is there is that possibiliy, is it a high one probably not, but it would be foolish to think theres no possibility to be criminal, civlily responsible. Of course you have to convince a jury or judge, problem is what comes to light in a trial like that, were you speeding , texting, alcohol in your system, px drugs, then tack on overweight on top of it, were you at fault for the accident, prior driving history, sort of seems like if any of those can be proved you might be up a creek. And if this is ever did go to court, most plantiffs would try and ruin you, thats just how it works. What some might fail to realize this goes to some big lawsuit that plantiffs attorneys will get your medical records, work history, talk to friends and neighbors, all in trying to paint a picture of you being some demon. heck its even possible this post gets pulled, how does that look in court. I interned one summer at a law firm for college, and in these big cases you wouldnt beleive to the lengths a lawyer will go to, to make you look like mud.

IMO the guy needs weight tickets to really see what hes doing and take appropriate action, whether that be to get better, tires, helper bags etc, as it sits I truely beleive his weight estimations are way under. Its still my opinion, why not buy the right tool for job, which in my mind, somebody skimped out on the truck or had big eyes for the trailer.

DenaliDually · February 10, 2015

I agree with nards...

Kinda easy to miss interpret these things...

But IF something happened and a LEO/DOT walked up to a tangled 1500 with a 33' trailer it would probably be looked at, those road cops are smarter than you want to believe. What could happen? Who knows... Just be educated and smart about it.

2015 Denali 3500 DRW, Michelin ltx, 4x4

JamGear · February 10, 2015

My axel weights are in spec and the truck is Apportioned Plated so it's a higher gross. Kinda sucks bc you need a CDL to drive it even without a trailer.....

Where is this sticker located on your truck?