Towing in the extreme: My 2014 1500 & 33’ 5th Wheel RV

sahls01gmc · February 6, 2015

I appreciate that you claim to drive safely but the comment that you made about breaking the speed limit, ever, with that rig blows my mind.

I was thinking the same thing.

JamGear, not trying to come down on you. Just looking out for YOU, as well as everyone else on the road. We all love to go on vacation, but we need to make it home so we can go on another one someday.

Jon A · February 6, 2015

You guys are subtracting gas in the tank from payload? Good grief.

As I mentioned in the other thread, they changed the GVWR to 7600 for 2015 without changing any mechanical parts. Anybody saying he's being unsafe at a weight below that is simply wrong.

A little common sense goes a long way. Towing a 5th wheel at max GVWR is dramatically safer in every way imaginable than towing a bumper pull at max GVWR. People freak out for some reason when they see it's a 5th wheel when they should actually do the opposite.

nards444 · February 6, 2015

You guys are subtracting gas in the tank from payload? Good grief.

As I mentioned in the other thread, they changed the GVWR to 7600 for 2015 without changing any mechanical parts. Anybody saying he's being unsafe at a weight below that is simply wrong.

A little common sense goes a long way. Towing a 5th wheel at max GVWR is dramatically safer in every way imaginable than towing a bumper pull at max GVWR. People freak out for some reason when they see it's a 5th wheel when they should actually do the opposite.

Yeah the gas thing is a little much. And I think Curb weight is determined with fuel in the truck anyways isnt it? 300 lbs either is not going to make or break you it just wont so you would be correct in the 7600 number. But if it comes down to a insurance claim, court case, good luck pointing to a 2015 model and the 7600 figure when your model and door jam has lesser of a rating, thats not going to fly.

A 5th wheel is 10 times better than a bumper pull. But this just doesnt pass the common sense test it doesnt.

DenaliDually · February 6, 2015

You guys are subtracting gas in the tank from payload? Good grief.

As I mentioned in the other thread, they changed the GVWR to 7600 for 2015 without changing any mechanical parts. Anybody saying he's being unsafe at a weight below that is simply wrong.

A little common sense goes a long way. Towing a 5th wheel at max GVWR is dramatically safer in every way imaginable than towing a bumper pull at max GVWR. People freak out for some reason when they see it's a 5th wheel when they should actually do the opposite.

" While towing, I get about 8 miles per gallon running aggressive and fast. Driving the speed limits and taking it easy I get 9 to 10 MPG. "

Thats unsafe, I'm not wrong about that.

As far as the weight, the only number relevant is one from a CAT scale. Theoretical numbers on gear and trailer weight are for the birds. If he's NOT over weight and NOT over the speed rating of the TRAILER tires then all is well.

I think the point trying to be made here is IF it IS overweight or IS running fast and an accident occurs he's screwed. And that retirement that has been working hard for could be gone.

2015 Denali 3500 DRW, Michelin ltx, 4x4

nards444 · February 6, 2015

" While towing, I get about 8 miles per gallon running aggressive and fast. Driving the speed limits and taking it easy I get 9 to 10 MPG. "

Thats unsafe, I'm not wrong about that.

As far as the weight, the only number relevant is one from a CAT scale. Theoretical numbers on gear and trailer weight are for the birds. If he's NOT over weight and NOT over the speed rating of the TRAILER tires then all is well.

I think the point trying to be made here is IF it IS overweight or IS running fast and an accident occurs he's screwed. And that retirement that has been working hard for could be gone.

2015 Denali 3500 DRW, Michelin ltx, 4x4

Very good point, and I kind of eluded to that. I think hes short changing what that camper actually weighs at the end of the day. I would suggest getting a true weight at a scale. Because if theres somebody that manages to have less than 1000lbs of junk in their trailer, let me know they deserve an award A trailer like that 50 gallons of water is 400lbs, clothing is 50-100lbs per person, food for weekend trip is easily another 50-100lbs, alcohol, camp chairs, weener roasters, lights, etc etc. 600lbs i doubt it. But like you said if its oveweight and something happens somebody will take him the house, question is if thats the case is it worth it. Just from tongue weight and and two people alone puts thats trucks payload over its limits.

JamGear · February 6, 2015

If it where me I would definitly add an air lift to it. The have some 5K systems now.

This will allow you to level out the truck. Once I go up to a bigger camper I will most likely add one regardless.

A tire upgrade is also very recomeneded with that much wheight right down on them.

You get enough heat in the rear tires they will let go.

I installed Timbrens. They work they same as air bags but do not need to be adjusted. I think they are better. The only down side is sometimes when riding empty, the rear hits the Timbrens and bumps a little hard compared to bags or not having the suspension enhancement installed at all.

http://timbren.com/timbren-ses/

I will definitely look into the tires aspect of this. I recall the hearing that the Max Trailering package also included specific rims and tires. I will check. Thanks,

DenaliDually · February 6, 2015

Anyone here know the only department more bored and vengeful that a Highway Patrol???

2015 Denali 3500 DRW, Michelin ltx, 4x4

Jon A · February 6, 2015

Anyone here know the only department more bored and vengeful that a Highway Patrol???

In my state they'd look at the registration. That's all they care about. Mine says 8,000 lbs.

nards444 · February 6, 2015

I installed Timbrens. They work they same as air bags but do not need to be adjusted. I think they are better. The only down side is sometimes when riding empty, the rear hits the Timbrens and bumps a little hard compared to bags or not having the suspension enhancement installed at all.

http://timbren.com/timbren-ses/

I will definitely look into the tires aspect of this. I recall the hearing that the Max Trailering package also included specific rims and tires. I will check. Thanks,

I would definitely look into e load range tires. They might have them already, but Im guessind the tires are either C or D range.

Jon A · February 6, 2015

Yeah the gas thing is a little much. And I think Curb weight is determined with fuel in the truck anyways isnt it?

Yes. Usually full tank in US, 90% full in Europe.

But if it comes down to a insurance claim, court case, good luck pointing to a 2015 model and the 7600 figure when your model and door jam has lesser of a rating, thats not going to fly.

Yup, happens all the time on the internet. In reality, somebody suing needs to prove "gross negligence" on his part. The burden of proof is on them. With the jury knowing "under the newest rating system" mechanically identical trucks are actually 300 lbs under the limit, good luck doing that. Ambulance chasers chase ambulances they know they can catch. In real life this is never going to happen.

But this just doesnt pass the common sense test it doesnt.

Again, because of that 300 lbs? What form of common sense are you applying?

JamGear · February 6, 2015

You guys are subtracting gas in the tank from payload? Good grief.

As I mentioned in the other thread, they changed the GVWR to 7600 for 2015 without changing any mechanical parts. Anybody saying he's being unsafe at a weight below that is simply wrong.

A little common sense goes a long way. Towing a 5th wheel at max GVWR is dramatically safer in every way imaginable than towing a bumper pull at max GVWR. People freak out for some reason when they see it's a 5th wheel when they should actually do the opposite.

Ahh, a little fresh air and good reasoning. I think all agree that my Gross Combined Vehicle Weight is safely below the max. I guess the sore spot, to most, is the payload.

The 9.76 rear axle alone adds 150 lbs of additional "safe" payload capacity. So if the front axle max is 3,950lbs and the rear max 4,100lbs, then my real max payload can be as high as 8,050 lbs.

Though I was expecting both good and bad response from this post. I was not expecting to be vilified as a careless evil doer.

DenaliDually · February 6, 2015

I suppose if you don't leave your state there's not a problem. States are definatly different when it comes to general enforcemnt. DOT is there to make money and if they think your overweight they will use portable scales and write you a ticket usually around a thousand bucks. Not over weight, not a problem. Over weight, pay. And again, IF an accident were to occur most DOT officers will investigate a 1500 and a 33' trailer. If there a death, it will be weighed. If your over, your done.

2015 Denali 3500 DRW, Michelin ltx, 4x4

DenaliDually · February 6, 2015

You should go to a truck stop and get one of these. No offense, but the difference here between theory and reality is critical when your this close. It could be as easy as shifting weight rearward in the trailer. You may find that buying something when you get to your destination is better than bringing it with you.

At least your using your brain! Lol. Most people just wing it. You're clearly an intelligent person and are trying, for that I thank you.

2015 Denali 3500 DRW, Michelin ltx, 4x4

JamGear · February 6, 2015

You should go to a truck stop and get one of these. No offense, but the difference here between theory and reality is critical when your this close. It could be as easy as shifting weight rearward in the trailer. You may find that buying something when you get to your destination is better than bringing it with you.

At least your using your brain! Lol. Most people just wing it. You're clearly an intelligent person and are trying, for that I thank you.

2015 Denali 3500 DRW, Michelin ltx, 4x4

I will definitely get the rig officially weighed. Meanwhile, I have updated my chart based on some additional information and advice from people in the thread.

I have confirmed that fuel is included in curb weight. All operating and or comsumable fluids are part of the engine. So I took out the fuel weight from my chart. Also, I added anbother 400 lbs to the weight of my gear in the trailer.

calgator73 · February 6, 2015

If it where me I would definitly add an air lift to it. The have some 5K systems now.

This will allow you to level out the truck. Once I go up to a bigger camper I will most likely add one regardless.

A tire upgrade is also very recomeneded with that much wheight right down on them.

You get enough heat in the rear tires they will let go.

Now let's not unnecessarily worry the other readers with ambiguous legality. Keep in mind this is a recreational rig.

The requirements and laws for commercial trailering differ a good bit from recreational. There is a huge difference between a 15,000llb pickup truck and 5th wheel rig and a commercial 80,000lb overland rig in regard to road safety and law. Furthermore, it seems all states with RV trailer laws focus on the safety of keeping the trailer connected to the tow vehicle in addition to brake requirements, height, length and weight limits. I have not found any state law that has cause or penalty for overloading a tow vehicle past manufacturer ratings.

The link below is a good quick reference. If, in fact, any state has a recreational truck and or trailer overload statute, it is not likely one of probable cause. I am not saying my configuration is the wisest thing. But it is not at all illegal nor subject to the laws of commercial trucking.

http://www.rvsafely.com/rvroadlaws.htm

Agree with what you're saying...check this out

I would certainly have to agree on the tires. Those particular tires are derated (9%) to 2260 per tire or 4520 per axle. The dry hitch weight is 1660 which is 18% of 10200. Assuming the majority of the added weight is added to those huge storage compartments up front I wouldn't be surprised if the hitch weight didn't bump to ~2020lbs. Now...if I was a betting man your truck is close to 6100lbs with about 2500lbs on your rear axle (with all your listed stuff for your truck) which leaves you about (using 2015 data) 1500lbs of available payload.

Upgrade to load range D (all terrain) bf Goodrich to stay within tire ratings. But you will be beyond RGAWR of 4300 lbs (probably based on tire ratings..dunno if I'd be concerned).

Your actual TV weight is probably right at 8100lbs when hitched but you're right that your gcwr will be around 16,100.

If possible shift your hitch forward to distribute more weight to the front axle (you have about a 350lb margin) to moderate your bouncing as much as possible. (how much does the front fender height increase when you hitch?)

Also, using timbrens instead of bags or supersprings imparts a huge shock load on the gooseneck portion of your 5th wheel and your frame when you hit large bumps (suspension will unload and then slam with greater dynamic force). 5th wheels are known to be sensitive to these loads and will crack unless you use a good air suspension and/or air ride hitch.

Also max out your trailer brake controller gain.