Intake manifold off with pics of intake valves with deposits.

amfr · February 8, 2016

Never been a voided warranty for the Elite style cans as they cannot in any way cause any failure. They maintain a emissions compliant closed system and in the US, it would be against Federal law for a dealer to do so.

Here is another good article:

http://netwelding.com/catch_can.pdf

tnchevy, I would be willing to demonstrate on the fleet showing fuel consumption alone (average fleet owner see's 1-2 MPG improvement Port injection or GDI) and do a before dyno on your highest mileage truck and then clean the valves and do an after to prove if that helps. You would only need to get the truck to a shop of my choice. All else is no charge. That should do a ton to demonstrate how effective and how degrading the power/economy is over time.

On the SeaFoam, in the gas tank will do absolutely nothing as it never touches the backsides of the valves. That is throwing $ away. In the engine oil I would never dilute the oil with a solvent...risk damaging a rod or main bearing.

The engine running upper induction cleaning I have gone over in great detail as well. With an older port injection engine these are fine, with a GDI the deposits are not soft carbon, they are hard baked on crystalline abrasive as sand when broken loose, and even the solvent sellers state it only removes up to 30% or so. ONLY a manual cleaning with crushed walnut shell blasting or the solvent soak and brush method can clean them properly w/out damaging the engine. I do advise using it along with a good catchcan system every 10-15k miles as the amount of coking is so minor after installing and using a system like the Elite E2-X series it keeps them clean the life of the engine. But never use after say 10-15k miles w/out running a good system or the amount and hardness of the deposits may cause damage as it breaks loose.

And finally, for the pre 2014 engines that are port injection. You will have no deposits on the valves at all as the constant spray of detergent fuel keeps them clean and deposit free, but the oil and other compounds ingested via the PCV system cause increased detonation and the knock retard the computer commands when it detects this pulls timing, and if your not running optimum timing advance, power and fuel economy decrease. Then over time varnish builds up from this gunk in the ring lands and causes the rings to stick and not move freely, so that allows more blow-by and increased oil consumption.

Hope that clear some up!!

So basically only thing to do is bring it to a shop and have it cleaned. Would a dealer put the catch can on? Or should I get any auto shop to put one on? I'm not sure I could put one on myself

sent from Florida beech

GDI Tech · February 8, 2016

Here's a worthwhile link to check out. BG did a long term test on an EcoBoost Taurus. The PCV system Ford selected for the EcoBoost is prone to rapid carbon buildup/oil consumption. Pretty interesting.

https://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/

The BG treat ment can clean up to 50% of the deposits, but the damage this can do to the turbo hot side blades outweighs the use. Ford has issued TSB's that using these products on any of the ecoboost engines is grounds to void warranty due to this. But, a non turbo engine that has a system installed from new and then every 10-15k miles does a solvent based cleaning is the best solution to date.

So basically only thing to do is bring it to a shop and have it cleaned. Would a dealer put the catch can on? Or should I get any auto shop to put one on? I'm not sure I could put one on myself

sent from Florida beech

Many dealer sell and install these, but I will PM you more details.

amfr · February 11, 2016

Few more valve pics

Was it hard to put the catch can in? I'm looking to get one and either have a shop put it on or do it myself over spring break

sent from Florida beech

gone_fishing · February 11, 2016

Was it hard to put the catch can in? I'm looking to get one and either have a shop put it on or do it myself over spring break

sent from Florida beech

Catch can was pretty straight forward. RX has an installation video on YouTube:

Also check out this thread if you haven't already: http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/154204-oil-catch-can/

FL335i · February 14, 2016

I saw the pics. I didn't see them as horrific. I guess I spent too much time dealing with the BMW D.I. Turbo 335i. If you saw the valve pics on that forum.... OMG. Hence why i really don't think what the pics show are horrific. I have 38k on my truck. I'm going to do a sprayed in treatment. I think CRC makes a product specifically for this issue. I'm going to give this a shot on my truck and my '89 blazer. Beats tearing the intake manifold off a BMW Twin Turbo to walnut blast the valves.

Did some searching and this CRC can is $12.99 @ Napa. I think maybe running one of these every 10-12k might be the answer. Need to get a cheap scope camera from harbor freight so I can see if I'm wasting my money though. Plus throw a catch can on there.... bout as good as it's going to get. I saw that some makers are tinkering with a throttle body injector (i swear the 80's are coming back. Throttle body injectors and bright color shoes are back) and others are adding a few injectors in the intake manifold. So the manufactures know this is an issue....

drummerdawg · February 15, 2016

I saw the pics. I didn't see them as horrific. I guess I spent too much time dealing with the BMW D.I. Turbo 335i. If you saw the valve pics on that forum.... OMG. Hence why i really don't think what the pics show are horrific.

Kinda funny I am selling my E92 335i this week to pick up a 2014 SLT. And I agree about the differences in how bad the pics look.

GDI Tech · February 15, 2016

I saw the pics. I didn't see them as horrific. I guess I spent too much time dealing with the BMW D.I. Turbo 335i. If you saw the valve pics on that forum.... OMG. Hence why i really don't think what the pics show are horrific. I have 38k on my truck. I'm going to do a sprayed in treatment. I think CRC makes a product specifically for this issue. I'm going to give this a shot on my truck and my '89 blazer. Beats tearing the intake manifold off a BMW Twin Turbo to walnut blast the valves.

Did some searching and this CRC can is $12.99 @ Napa. I think maybe running one of these every 10-12k might be the answer. Need to get a cheap scope camera from harbor freight so I can see if I'm wasting my money though. Plus throw a catch can on there.... bout as good as it's going to get. I saw that some makers are tinkering with a throttle body injector (i swear the 80's are coming back. Throttle body injectors and bright color shoes are back) and others are adding a few injectors in the intake manifold. So the manufactures know this is an issue....

That is the best solution we have found to date. Install a good system like the E2-X from Elite (I prefer the dual valve, and if in cold Northern climates, get the Ultra for the double capacity these work so well). Start with clean valves and then the combination of a good separation system and using a solvent based upper induction cleaning and you should avoid the issues caused by this. As for what looks severe, BMW and most early adopters of GDI are horrendous. They have improved just as GM and others have, but not to the point of avoiding and preventing the wear to the intake valve guides, and degradation of power and economy. Any disruption of the incoming air charge to that cylinder results in less power and efficiency as well as premature wear.

Kinda funny I am selling my E92 335i this week to pick up a 2014 SLT. And I agree about the differences in how bad the pics look.

Get a system on the truck asap when you do.

The VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and most Asian brands were the worst offenders, and those forum members were aware of this far earlier than domestic forums, but BMW STILL denies it was ever an issue as the official stance, same as GM.

FL335i · February 16, 2016

^ BMW dealers are pretty good about walnut blasting the valves. $400-$500 every 60k is what you're looking at. They can't admit it's an issue b/c then they own it. Right now people are paying for the walnut blasting. I'd deny it too. I agree that the early pioneers of GDI such as BMW, are the worst offenders b/c they were bringing DI engines to market in 2007. Compare to what else was on the market those things were space shuttles of their era. I still loved my E90 335i. I had a '07, 1st year of production. So many people complained about this that and the other. In the end, the '07's were believed to be "faster" and "louder" than later years. and the only real downfall was in '07 the base model didn't have a oil cooler, that was it. I put a Dinan oil cooler on mine and then an OEM before I sold the car. In the end, I had hardly any issues with the car. Loved it. Drove it daily even for business for a while. But for a long term high mileage deal the BMW are a debbie downer. Lots of items to tinker with. I liked my '03 E90 530i M sport 5spd better for high mileage. Gobs of room and stupid simple.

One other item I heard a guy talk about that kind of interested me was shortening the oil change intervals. I know with BMW's, mine would run 17,000mi the same way my truck goes up to 7,500. Of course I never did 17k OCI's, I did 10k OCI's. I wonder how much of an affect longer oil changes have on carbon building up on the valves. Maybe the oil that gets sucked into the manifold carbons up quicker based on oil age? Just something that sparked curiosity.

glcbn · February 17, 2016

I'd like to see valve buildup comparison pics of x number of miles on the same engine type, with one using dino oil and one full synthetic.

GDI Tech · February 17, 2016

I'd like to see valve buildup comparison pics of x number of miles on the same engine type, with one using dino oil and one full synthetic.

I agree. We have documented and see on the V6 test cars more buildup with dino oil, but would like to see two GDI V8 trucks compared as well.

I am not sure at all if linger oil change duration/intervals have an impact....never thought of that.

Rock1500 · February 18, 2016

So I have 13k miles on my truck and i installed the catch can around 12k. How badly do you think the build up would be by now? Would I be able to get away with running a can of crc without the need of cleaning the valves already?

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V8der3423 · February 24, 2016

http://www.easygdi.valvoline.com

The answer to cleaning everything that needs to be cleaned...

Take a look at a new product that's about to hit the market in a week, maybe two weeks from Valvoline.

Nothing is out in the market today that the cleans GDI like this.

glcbn · February 24, 2016

http://www.easygdi.valvoline.com

The answer to cleaning everything that needs to be cleaned...

Take a look at a new product that's about to hit the market in a week, maybe two weeks from Valvoline.

Nothing is out in the market today that the cleans GDI like this.

Doesn't look much different than the BG cleaning system.

GDI Tech · February 25, 2016

No different than BG, Amsoil, CRC, Seafoam or others. Still a solvent based cleaning introduced into the engine intake air charge while engine is running. This causes damage a high percentage of the time as GDI buildup is a very hard abrasive type of carbon due to the high heat the valves operate at and the lack of any detergent fuel touching them. Old carbureted and port injection carbon was a very soft buildup that rarely could cause damage, but any solvent based cleaner such as this used when the engine is running (unless say 10k miles or less than can be safely used as the deposit build up is pretty minor at that time) think pouring a small amount of sand in the throttle body while running. Some will be forced between the piston and cylinder wall causing scouring. No way to avoid that. Now that scouring may be minor, but it is still damage. IF the buildup is substantial enough, a piece broken loose can become stuck between the valve and seat allowing piston contact and bent valves (we see this). Then, between cleanings there is nothing to prevent the wear to the valve guide from these deposits being drawn into the guide with every cycle of the valve opening and closing. You MUST stop the build-up at the source first, and these can then be used in conjunction with a separation system w/out risk of damage.

Then one final comment, read the disclosers. None of these clain to remove more than 40-50% of the deposits.

Every petroleum company is releasing solvents due to the coking issues, but the only safe way is a manual cleaning if you have more than 10k or so miles on your vehicles.