Swapping in a '93 block

speedshifter · March 11, 2003

Hey guys,

I've got a '97 Yukon w/138,000 miles on it. The trans is blown so I am rebuilding it. I am also going to rebuild the engine while I do the trans.

My dad just got a '93 GM 350 truck crate motor with 7k miles on it. The guy who had it before had two engines put in his truck because of a knocking noise. This is the first one he replaced and took this one out and dropped in a 2nd. Turned out just to be some cooler lines making noise.

So I have this '93 7,000 mile short block waiting to go in. Will my vortec top end bolt up to this block?

What do I need to use this block? Do I have to buy any valvetrain components?

Thanks for the help guys!

americanmuscleman · March 12, 2003

I posted a little info on this before... the TBI block isn't a factory roller block. If your Vortec isn't toast, you can swap some of the Vortec parts over.

The heads, intake, etc... should all transfer over without any problems. Your compression ratio might be a little different, so I would check that (TBI 350's I believe have a slightly lower compression).

Here are the parts your going to need to transfer over from the old engine, to the new one:

Intake

Heads

Likely the oil pan and pickup

Vortec camshaft

Roller timing chain and wear plate

Roller lifters

Roller lifter retainers

Lifter valley retainer (the metal "spider")

Pushrods

Probably the oil pressure sensor on the back of the block

The heads and intake will swap no problem. Put new valve springs and valve seals on your heads while you have them off. Your going to need to install a Vortec roller cam which requires roller lifters, roller lifter retainers, a lifter valley retainer, and a roller timing chain and wear plate. This is all really easy stuff to swap with the engine out of the vehicle.

Since your engine has 138k on it, I would put in new roller lifters and a new Vortec camshaft. You'll want to definitely install a new roller timing chain. A perfect timing chain set would be to get a Cloyes True-Roller timing chain designed for a ROLLER TPI 350 (I'm using one with my roller cam in my TBI 350). I can get you the part number if you want it. The lifter retainers, the lifter valley retainer, pushrods and probably the wear plate should all be in great condition and useable again.

I would recommend you check and see if the harmonic damper on the front of the crankshaft is different on both engines. I would guess it is. This could cause a problem. Check to see that they are both installed at the same distance away from the timing cover, because a pulley is installed on the balancer for the serpentine belt, and you want to make sure the balancer isn't set too far out or in on the crankshaft. And make sure the Vortec pulley bolts to the TBI balancer.

I'm not sure if the oil filter housing is in the same place either. If its not, you'll probably want to swap the Vortec housing onto the TBI motor.

Thats really all I can think of right now.

If you have any questions, I'd be happy to try to help.

speedshifter · March 12, 2003

Hey muscleman!

I tried e-mailing you about this a couple weeks ago, but never got a response.

I am going to have the heads sent to a machine shop (new seals, valve job, port & polish). I am getting a comp cams xtreme 4x4 roller cam. I'm not sure if I have the timing chain with the 7k mile TBI block, so I could use that part # if you have it. I knew that the heads would probably bolt up. What I didn't know was the difference in compression. I thought somone also said something about a difference in pushrod length? Do the '97 and '93 blocks have the same deck height?

I will check to make sure the pulley fits. I didn't think of that.

Any other info anyone has would be great!!!

speedshifter · March 12, 2003

I just discovered that the pulleys should be the same. I'm making this assumption because as I was browsing through my Summit truck catalog, I noticed that the underdrive pulleys are listed for the 1988-2000 350s. So they should be the same pulley. If the motor does have lower compression than my vortec, I'm just gonna give the block to my dad (he has a '94 Suburban with over 100k miles) and rebuild my vortec with new bearings, piston rings, and a full gasket set. I will still have the head work done also.

americanmuscleman · March 12, 2003

Speedshifter, I never got your email? Thats weird. I'll check to see if I misspelled my email address or something. I would have responded to it had I gotten it. Sorry about that!

I want to say a TBI 350 has 8.5:1 compression? and a Vortec has 9.3:1? I've never gotten a straight answer on what a stock TBI 350 has. I've heard everything from 8.5:1 to 9.1:1. I think a Vortec 350 has 9.3:1 though. I'll double check on that though.

The TBI 350 and Vortec 350 have the same deck height.

Sounds great on the roller cam and ported heads! Comp Cams Extreme energy cams make awesome power. If your planning to run 1.6 ratio rocker arms, I believe on Vortec heads you have to clearance the area where the pushrods go through the heads. I'm using 7.300" pushrods in my 350. Do you know the duration, lift, and lobe separation angle on the cam your planning to use?

I'm out of town right now, but I'll be back home on Friday, and I'll try to check for you then what the Cloyes timing chain part number is. I'm going to be out of town again from next Saturday until the following Saturday, so if you have anything you can think of your stuck on beforehand, I'd be happy to try to help.

You probably know this, but you have to swap to a roller timing chain since your installing a roller cam. You'll also have to install a wear plate when you put a roller cam in. A wear plate (aka thrust plate) will bolt onto the block after you install the cam. It goes between the block (in front of the cam) and behind the camshaft sprocket. I can get you a picture of one for you if you want one.

Sounds like your building an awesome engine!

americanmuscleman · March 12, 2003

The Cloyes True Roller timing chain I'm using is about $80 and part number 9-3145 (CLO9-3145 on Scoggin Dickey's webpage). Scoggin Dickey Performance Parts

GM performance parts makes a roller timing chain that will work. GM Part #12371043. Its about $50.

Edelbrock makes one as well. Part #7801 (E7801 at SD's) Its $70.

Do you know what kind of rocker arms your planning to use? Stock stamped steel ones or aftermarket roller rockers? You have a lot of choices like what ratio you want to run (1.5, 1.6, etc..) and whether they are self-aligning (SA) or non-self-aligning (non-SA). If you need any help decifering any of that info, let me know.

speedshifter · March 13, 2003

Something is really screwed up with this board. First you never recvd my e-mail that I send through the board. I never get e-mails telling me when sombody replies to my topics. And now this huge post I made earlier doesnt show up!!!

As I said in my non existent post..

I have basically given up on using the '93 block and just gonna rebuild my '97.

I am using the 3rd cam from the bottom:

I am also using Comps Pro Magnum Stainless Steel Roller Rocker arms. (stock 1.5 ratio, self-align) Also on my list is their valve springs and their double roller billet timing chain which is also listed in the picture.

To complete my "Stage 1" of upgrades in addition to the headwork, I am also installing Edelbrock's stainless TES headers, Dual CATCO stainless high flow cats, and Gibsons Dual Sport Stainless exhaust (2 pipes exiting in stock location).

Thanks for reminding me of Scoggin Dickey!!! I just ran up the part number for the rockers and they are $23 cheaper than summit!

americanmuscleman · March 13, 2003

Speedshifter, sounds great! That cam will be perfect for your truck. I think the next largest cam (the 220/224) would be a little big for a nice daily driver... while that 210/214 will have nice low end power, get decent mileage, and still give you the power your hoping for. I'd love to hear how everything turns out! Are you planning on doing anything with the bottom end or leaving it stock?

Who are you planning to have do the computer tuning?

speedshifter · March 13, 2003

All I am doing with the bottom end is new piston rings, new oil pump, all gaskets, and new bearings.

No computer tuning planned as of yet. Was thinking about getting the Hypertech Power Programmer as part of my "Stage 2" of upgrades.

americanmuscleman · March 13, 2003

I would look into tuning. Your truck probably won't run well with ported heads and a bigger cam on stock tuning. You'll see a huge gain in power with tuning as well.

Two companies I think do awesome tuning are PCMForLess (www.pcmforless.com) and Ed Wright at Fastchips (www.fastchips.com). Ed Wright is expensive, but your tuning will be top notch. Bryan at PCMForLess can probably give you a nice mail order tune for under $150. Ed Wright will likely charge closer to $400, but it will probably be spot on.

speedshifter · March 14, 2003

fastchips.com doesnt work. It says the domain is for sale.

I am considering pcmforless however. Their site says they only do SUVs up to '95. I thought that it would run good with the tuning from the Hypertech programmer tho.

If I get my ecm tuned, can I still use the power programmer afterwards? To like adjust tranny shiftpoints and tire dims?

This tuning wont mess with any of the OBDII functionality will it?

speedshifter · March 16, 2003

I got the truck today. It was being shipped up from GA.

It needs some work, but thats why I bought it.

After talking to some pros, I have decided not to port the heads. The Vortec heads were designed to their max ability, so I'm not gonna mess with what works. Still gonna polish the runners and chambers though. Also having a valve job done.

I have decided to use the TBI block after all. The block is actually only 3 years old. It was a GM factory replacement engine. It has a brand new oil pan on it with an additional hole already there for my Oil Temp gauge. Compression between the TBI and the Vortec is not relevant because the heads determine the compression in these motors. So my motor will still have 9.4:1 compression in it.

If I swap the whole top end from my vortec to that block, and get the roller cam, is there anything else I would need since this block came with a non-roller cam in it?

By the way, I have a set of brand new roller lifters out of a 6.0L Escalade motor. Would those work in the 5.7?

Thanks for the help guys (americanmuscleman)!

speedshifter · March 20, 2003

Okay, I just ordered my parts last night!!!!

Heres what I'm getting:

Comp Cams roller timing chain set #3136

Comp Cams valve springs #981-16

Comp Cams 4x4 Cam #08-411-8

Comp Cams Pro Magnum roller rockers #1317-16

Catco high-flow stainless cats (x2) #4088

Edelbrock TES Stainless headers #6615

I ordered the cam and rockers from Scoggin-Dickey because summit didn't stock the cam and wanted $23 more for the rockers. Everything else I got from summit.

I let you know how it goes and what problems I run into. Ill take some pics also.

The tranny comes out either today or tomorrow, then the motor on Saturday and the heads get sent out.

Oh yeah, the beast just got treated to some nice '02 17" Cadillac Escalade rims and tires. Score!

speedshifter · March 23, 2003

I finally got a pic of the truck up. Sorry for taking so long!

Oh, and heres a pic of what was wrong with the tranny. Had no reverse:

Oh yeah, all that red stuff on the bottom of the truck is not rust, its Georgia red clay. That stuff is like baked to every part of the truck underside. Better than getting your truck undercoated, and its free!

americanmuscleman · March 24, 2003

Speedshifter, nice looking truck!

It looks like you found the tranny problem!

You look like you ordered a nice selection of parts! Vortec heads flow real well from the factory, so you'll probably see nice gains even if you don't port them.

In reguards to your 6.0L lifters, they won't work in a Vortec 5.7L. The 4.8, 5.3, 6.0, and LS1 and LS6 engines in the F-bodies and Corvette's use a totally different engine design. Virtually nothing will interchange between those engines and the Vortec 5.7L or any other GM small block.

Good luck with everything, and keep us updated on how things are going!

Let me check on computer tuning information.