All synthetic oils are not equal, be careful

[MikeInCtown]

Warning you all now that this may be a long and boring read.

 

yes, it goes without saying that each manufacturer has their own formula for their synthetic oil. However, some are very different than others. In the last two years I have used three different oils which all gave me much different experiences.

 

Since I bought my 2004 Sierra 5.3 in 09 at 100k miles, I have used Quaker state full synthetic. It comes in a 5 quart jug at Walmart for $22 and has never given me a problem. So two years back I got to buy the Q and they don't have it. I bought the Pennzoil Platinum instead as it was close to the same price on sale.

 

With the Pennzoil in my truck, I "used" more oil between changes than I ever had before. My oil light actually came on with 20% life left and I had to add a quart. i got concerned because the most the Q had used was about a half a quart.

 

When the Pennzoil was ready to be changed i replaced it with the Q once again, but because the 5w-30 was once again sold out I went with 10w-30. I did this in part because I thought that my engine was now using oil and I wanted to use the heavier weight oil through the hottest days of the summer. Through the next x thousand miles I noticed that the engine had what I can best describe as a lifter tick for several minutes after startup but I once again only used about a half quart with the Q. i did notice that I saw lower mpg numbers. overall I think it was a 1-2mpg difference. itw as a small amount and could be iether attributed to the oil or even wind direction or air temperature.

 

Winter 2013 came and I changed to the standard Q 5w-30 and had no issues. and once again lost the normal half quart.

 

Spring of this year I was fairly poor when I did my oil change. I looked at the Supertech WalMart brand and figured it couldn't be that bed because it was still synthetic oil. So I bought the required amount with the usual PF46e filter. Shortly after I changed the oil I noticed that my oil pressure readings were lower than they had been historically. For example, my normal oil pressure with the Q would be 35-40psi at hot idle or as high as 60psi cold idle. With the Supertech oil I was seeing numbers as low as 20psi hot idle and only 40psi cold idle. Even at highway speed where I would normally see 45-50psi I now saw less than 35-40psi. Overall throughout the range of driving and temperatures, I was seeing a difference of more than 10psi difference with as much as 20psi at times. Also had to add in one quart of oil during the interval.

 

Last week was time for an oil change again and I found the Q on the shelf. Grabbed the 5w-30 and the PF46E. As soon as the Q was in it the gauge started reading as it used to. I now had almost 60psi cold idle and 35-40psi hot idle. Driving around I am now seeing 50psi once again. I have also noticed increased fuel mileage once again as well as less engine noise on startup.

 

I do not know how or why the Pennzoil was able to be used at a faster rate than the Q. I at least didn't see odd pressure numbers with that oil. The Supertech however caused me great concern. Seeing a pressure difference of 15 psi most times concerned me enough that I cannot or will not ever recommend the stuff to anyone. On the other hand, the 5w-30 quaker State full synthetic has worked incredibly well in my truck, provides good pressures, and doesn't seem to burn off as fast as other brands. I had always bought Q because of the price, but now I realize that in my truck it seems to outperform other oils as well.

 

has anyone else noticed that their trucks behave differently with different oils?

[00Silverado4x4]

Good reading. I have a similar story myself. Only it was with Castrol GTX that was giving me problems...

http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/146740-mystery-engine-oil-leak-2006-gmc-53l-flex/?hl=%2Bmystery+%2Boil+%2Bleak

 

The last two oil changes I have used Valvoline Next Gen. I went a total of 9,500 miles on that with only a quart added. It's the longest I've ever gone on an oil change in the 8 years I've had this truck (bought brand new). So far it's looking real good on this change but I'm only about 300 miles into it.

[AzDragonLord]

I've used Mobil-1 EP from day-one in my 2009 Sierra. I'm averaging 10,000 miles between changes and my last oil change (this morning actually) was down 1 quart.

[Daryl Z71]

Here's a good read over on the Cruze Forums.

 

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/10-powertrain/41385-tiered-oils-list-understanding-synthetics.html

[Cowpie]

Well, there is some truth going on here, for sure, but what a lot of folks fail to really take into account is that the additive package in an oil makes or breaks it more than the base oil itself. Most of the base oil in the U.S. is made by only a few companies. But how a brand sets up the add pack in their oil can make or break it, since 25% or more of a quart of oil is additive package.

 

And I have found over the years, that oils and engines are like ammo and .22 rifles. You can take two very high quality rifles and load them both with the same high quality ammo and one, most likely, will print better groups than the other. You reload them with another brand of high quality ammo, and the results can be reversed. Nothing wrong with the rifles or the ammo, just that one rifle prefers one brand over another. All of the major brands of oils one finds on the shelf are good. Just finding that one brand, and the particular oil in that brand, that your engine seem to prefer is the challenge. And when one can finds the best matchup, stick with it! Unfortunately, with all the marketing hype, it can be difficult to do sometimes. All of the major and boutique oils claim to be the best.

 

And some folks are so brand loyal, that it really makes no difference. Most of my oil purchases revolve around commercial use, so it has a lot to do with results at the lowest cost. I have gotten great results in my commercial stuff from Schaeffer brand synthetics. Enough so that I have increased oil change intervals by 75% over the OEM drain intervals on the commercial stuff. And since i get in bulk from my supplier, I also have them throw in a case of 5w30 synthetic for the pickup on an order now and then. I get everything at wholesale pricing and free shipping to me. Most folks don't seen this brand around primarily because it targets the commercial market as opposed to the retail market.

 

If I was buying off the shelf, there are a few different brands I would have no problem trying out to see which one my pickup likes. I would have no problem giving M1 a try, as well as the PP or QU products (both of which are made by the same company, SOPUS). My 2013 5.3L is doing fine on the Schaeffer. Only uses about a half pint during the entire oil change interval. I just go to 6000 miles, but that mostly revolves around the fact that I have to drive dusty gravel roads to and from the house and there is off road regularly on the property. The OLM can't account for some of that, like the dusty gravel road stuff. I do regular oil samples on my commercial stuff, so I probably should throw in a pickup oil sample occasionally just to actually see some results.

 

A good starting point to get a general idea how oils stack up is the Petroleum Qualtiy Institute of America (PQIA) website. They do side by side analysis of various brands and viscosities of oils and give the results of the formulation in them, NOACK properties, etc. Lots of good info there and even product alerts about which oils to avoid and even if a brand is being targeted for lawsuits by various government agencies.

 

http://www.pqiamerica.com

 

You have to really scroll around to find everything, but here is link to many of the archived testing they have done on various brands of oils...

 

http://www.pqiamerica.com/indexjune2013backup.html

[MikeInCtown]

Cowpie, very interesting iformation from the links. I looked up the three synthetic oils that i have used. as far as what I have noticed about "using oil", their tests seems to confirm that the Q has less volatility/mass loss than the other two. this would confirm my personal experience. Also going to look at other oils to see if any have even less volatility than what I am using now.

 

However, loss of oil pressure with the super tech I'm not sure can be explained. The test results show that the oil well within the viscosity parameters on the test charts, and slightly higher than the Q brand I was using. Perhaps they sold a batch that was mislabeled? ie, the product was a 0w-20 instead of a 5w-30?

 

Speaking of zero weight oils, has anyone used them in their trucks in the winter? 5w-30 is recommended, but was wondering if the 5w-20 or 0w-20 weight oils would work? i live in Cleveland so winter temps are usually below freezing 3-5 months. I don't haul or tow, but do want to worry that the engine is adequately protected.

[Cowpie]

Are you planning to cold start your vehicle in Fairbanks Alaska? Just did a look see and the Amsoil 5w30 has a cold pour point of -51F. the Schaeffer 5w30 synthetic I am using has a cold pour point of -45F. Pennz Ultra Platinum 5w30 -48F. QS ultimate 5w30 -45F. I live in Iowa and I have no problem with 5w30 all year. Cleveland gets cold, but it isn't any colder than the middle of Iowa in the dead of winter. If you are going to be facing some serious cold, then do what we did in Alaska when I lived up there... put on an oil pan heater and plug it in right along with block heater.

[MikeInCtown]

I don't want to start an argument, but I can pour molasses. that doesn't mean it can be easily pumped through a filter and then through tight tolerances easily.

 

It was just a question based on the knowledge that higher viscosity oils protect better in the summer and lower ones protect better in the winter. My lawnmower and snowblower both required different oils based on temperature of ambient air, and I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the same from automobile engines. (especially since the service requirments of cars and motorcycles state that there are different oil weight requirements for hot and cold climates)

 

maybe I should have worded the question differently. Such as will 0w-30 protect the engine in cold the same way 5w-30 would in the summer?

[Cowpie]

Ok. It doesn't matter if it is a 30w, a 10w30, a 5w30, or a 0w30. They are all 30w oils with the same viscosity at 100c... 10.5cSt. They are all going to protect the engine, some will just flow better at colder temps. The number in front of the "w" is nothing more than a specification as to the cold flow property. the number after the "w" is the weight of the oil. So, yes, a 0w30 will protect just as well as a 5w30. But it still remains, a 5w30 will work just fine in the pickup for the temps you get in Cleveland, even when the wind is blowing off the lake. I guess it all depends on how much you want to spend. A 0w30 is generally going to be more expensive, but to each his own. I use a 5w40 in my semi truck that flows quite nicely at temps more extreme than you normally experience, as I operate the truck well into the Dakotas during the winter. I guess I could shell out for a 0w40, but wouldn't benefit from the added cost. Oh, and I regularly do upper Ohio, Michigan, and Indiana all winter also.

 

Yep, it is true you could pour molasses, but I would like to see it pour at -25F, whereas a 5w30 will get into all the little places in the engine just fine. The 5w40 I use in the winter has to go thru two 15 micron full flow filters and a 2 micron bypass filter. Took one engine to 1.4 million miles then sold it, took another to 960,000 and sold it, and I just turned over 298,000 on my present one. None of the engines required a major repair before selling, and they went right to work for someone else. A typical auto oil filter is going to filter at about 21 microns, which is more open than the 15 micron synthetic media full flows on my semi truck, so a 5w30 will flow quite well in the pickup. But feel free to get a 0w30 if it helps you sleep at night. It will work also.

[Coalbunny]

I don't recall what the original oil was that I was using, but I know finding it here in Utah is nearly impossibly. So I tried the generic syn/blend from K-Mart, again I don't recall that name, and it did fairly good. I am now using Quaker State, and it's doing good.

 

I have always been loyal, using only Quaker State, because it's a good oil. Only time I did not use it is when I got my GMC Sierra, and now I'm going in that direction again.

 

Quaker State is good for a reason.

[Cowpie]

Then you could also use Pennzoil. Same company as QS. Virtually same products.

[Colossus]

I pick up the 5W30 M1 synthetic from Costco and call it good. Never an issue.

[mymaggiebell]

I don't recall what the original oil was that I was using, but I know finding it here in Utah is nearly impossibly. So I tried the generic syn/blend from K-Mart, again I don't recall that name, and it did fairly good. I am now using Quaker State, and it's doing good.

 

I have always been loyal, using only Quaker State, because it's a good oil. Only time I did not use it is when I got my GMC Sierra, and now I'm going in that direction again.

 

Quaker State is good for a reason.

personally speaking i would not call using qs a wise decision....just saying, from personal experience

[Black02Silverado]

 

Speaking of zero weight oils, has anyone used them in their trucks in the winter? 5w-30 is recommended, but was wondering if the 5w-20 or 0w-20 weight oils would work? i live in Cleveland so winter temps are usually below freezing 3-5 months. I don't haul or tow, but do want to worry that the engine is adequately protected.

 

I ran 5w-20 in my 5.3. I also did a used oil analysis on it and the results showed that it protected just as well as the 5w-30. I was hoping to see a small benefit in mpg.

[Cowpie]

QS turns in some pretty good numbers, as does Pennz in testing done by the Petroleum Quality Institute of America. In some ways, even better than Mobil 1. In the interest of full disclosure, I use the Schaeffer 9000 on this testing comparison chart....

 

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html

 

The newer gas to liquid oils that SOPUS is kicking out in it's Pennzoil product lines is interesting. A variation the on the "true" synthetic, PAO Group IV, thing, since PAO base oils are primarily made from Ethylene gas, which is primarily obtained from natural gas also. At least SOPUS is not pricing the products into the stratosphere as seems typical for similarly derived base oil products do.

 

Man, it is great to live in a time when we have so many selections. Each person can find a custom oil that fits with what they want and what they are willing to pay for. What a country!

 

Many are poo-pooing the 20w oils, but while I have no real experience with them, I do not see how they would also not protect well. In some instances, I could see how they might actually be a better fit for an engine than a 30w or 40w. Depends on the application. Film strength is the critical factor. if I was considering a 20w, it would be only in a good synthetic.