Oil catch can?

[Jimmy W]

http://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/elite-engineering-catch-can/

[Asells]

Do you guys still get the black soot on your tailpipe after installing the catch can?

[Jsdirt]

You'll always get soot in the exhaust. Carbon is a byproduct of combustion - no way around that, no matter how clean they make these engines run.

[Truckin 55]

You'll always get soot in the exhaust. Carbon is a byproduct of combustion - no way around that, no matter how clean they make these engines run.

Thanks to low sulfur fuel, DEF and ReGen ( computer controlled high RPM idle to clean out soot)the exhaust is cleaner on the Freightliner I drive than my Chevy

 

[fondupot]

Do you guys still get the black soot on your tailpipe after installing the catch can?

 

It's the nature of the beast with direct injected motors. Never was an issue with previous port injected vehicles I've owned though.

[Jsdirt]

Thanks to low sulfur fuel, DEF and ReGen ( computer controlled high RPM idle to clean out soot)the exhaust is cleaner on the Freightliner I drive than my Chevy

 

Exact reasons I'll never buy a new diesel. More crap to leave you dead on the side of the road, and cost $$$$$$$$$.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Jsdirt

[GDI Tech]

***They got back with me and there were 2 different packages,Second package will be here tomorrowGreat people to deal with!!!

Elite is one of the Pioneers in air/oil separation and even their quality cans from the past designed for Port injection engines do a great job for just that, but GDI engines cannot tolerate even small amounts of oil/other compounds so that is why they spent all the time/money/research, etc. to design the un-equaled line just for GDI.

 

Here is a long term test done in the development stage to show just how inefficient most cans, no matter what the brand are. Their tests over the past few years show even big brand names are only trapping from 15% to a high of 40 or so percent. Read this independent test done over months and thousands of miles:

 

NOTE: The RX can in this test is the basis for the current Elite E2-X series that the Patent Pending design was licensed and further improved by the same engineers that designed the true RX separators (NOT the cheap China knock-offs speedworks sells) for the absolute latest in air/oil separation that today's GI engines must have to avoid the damaging coking issues. No other has shown to come even close in testing, so that is why it is so critical to have the proper system for your GDI engine, and anything else will still allow a good amount of the coking:

 

5.0 UPR vs RX Catch Can Effectiveness Test

I’ve had a UPR catch can on my 5.0 since last summer. It catches a lot, especially in the cold months. But I’ll get right to my test. I added an RX can inline after my UPR can to see if the UPR was missing anything. And if it was allowing some to pass through, was it enough for the RX to catch anything? I don’t drive a lot of miles regularly since my F150 is not a daily driver, so my results will take some time. This thread is to document how I set it up and what I catch over time.

I installed the RX can just as the directions explained, but I routed the hoses differently. I left my UPR can right where it’s been for months, but rerouted one hose. I left the hose from the passenger side of the engine to the inlet of the UPR can. Then a new hose from UPR can outlet, routed to the inlet of the RX can. The RX outlet hose goes back to the engine. The PCV exhaust now flows from the engine, through the UPR, then through the RX, and finally back up to the engine intake.

Before installing everything for the test, I cleaned the UPR can thoroughly. The bottom of the can (inside) was covered with a thin layer of stiff sludge that I could only clean out using gas. I’m glad that was caught, along with the ounces of oil, water, etc, over the months I’ve been emptying it. But I was surprised at the outlet hose from the UPR can. It was wet with oil. Obviously some was getting through the can and back to my intake. I’ve never let the can get close to half full before emptying it. Nearly every time I’ve emptied it, there was 1/4“ or less in the bottom. I’m noting this in case someone thinks I left the UPR get overfilled and it flowed through. Nevertheless, I started this test after cleaning everything for a fresh start.

I plan to leave this setup on for a thousand miles or so, and report my findings from each can.

1st picture: UPR can as it was originally installed.

2nd: CleanUPR can.

3rd: RX can installed. The hose in the top center of the can is the inlet. The outlet hose on the right has a check valve.

4th: Engine outlet to UPR inlet on left of can. UPR outlet on right side of can routed around (smaller hose) to the RX inlet. You can also see the other smaller hose coming back up from the RX can and ending at the intake on the engine.

 

 

 

 

Report 2:

 

 

 

I thought I'd add a post to keep this thread alive since it is taking me awhile to get enough miles on the truck for valid results. Now that spring weather is finally arriving, I haven't been putting as many miles on it since I'm busy. But I have around 600 miles on the test set up so far. I emptied the cans recently and recorded the volumes to date. I'd like to wait until I get to 1000 miles before posting the results from the test, but I'll give some preliminary feedback.

 

- Emptying process -

First the UPR. I'm used to emptying the UPR can regularly, so it's not a big deal to unscrew, guide the can out from between the hoses, pour it out, guide it back in between the hoses, get it lined up carefully (so I don't cross thread the soft aluminum) and screw it back up snug. All that takes less than a few minutes so it's rather easy.

Now the RX can. Raise the hood, hold an empty water bottle under the drain tube, open the valve, close the valve, close the hood. I kid you not, it takes no more time than it took to read those steps. I knew it would be easy to empty, but it is ridiculously easy.

 

_ The weather so far -

During the first week of the test we had winter weather, with some snow. Since then we have had mild weather. Temperatures are in the 50's and 60's most days.

 

- What they caught so far -

I won't share the amounts yet, but I'll give some info. The UPR can has caught a 'mostly oil with a bit of water' mixture so far. The RX can (in line after the UPR) has had just the opposite. It's collected mostly water or fuel, with some oil mixed in.

I emptied the UPR first, and I would estimate it has collected the normal amount compared to what it usually does I empty it. I was pleased that my set up with 2 cans didn't seem to change the normal flow and collection I was used to seeing with just the UPR can. When I was about the turn the valve to empty the RX, I paused to a few seconds wondering if anything would come out. After all it was a new can that would need to get some oil/water coated on the inside before there would be enough to drip to the bottom (The UPR can had been in use for many months and although I cleaned the can I did not rinse off the filter material). Plus I wondered if the valve of the RX can protruded up into the can, and if it required some liquid to collect before there was enough to spill over that valve nipple and exit the can. Then I opened the valve and I had to smile when I had some liquid drain out. I thought all along that if it caught more than 10% of what the UPR was collecting, I would be surprised. It's still early in the test, and I would like to redo the test after reversing the order of the cans later, but I am surprised so far. I'm hoping to get more miles on the truck soon so I can wrap up this phase of the test.

 

Report 3:

 

1000 Miles of Testing Results

 

- The Weather has been warmer lately. So the test began with sub freezing temperatures, and gradually increased through the 70's and topped off in the mid 80's yesterday. I couldn't have asked for a better range of temperatures for this test.

 

- What they caught was astounding to me. UPR was first in line, with the RX after it to catch anything the UPR might miss.

The UPR stayed on track with what it has been accumulating for many months. Each time I emptied them, it had about the same amount. It's contents were mostly oil which smelled like used oil. It caught 17cc total which is just under 3 1/2 tsp.

The RX had more than the UPR each time I emptied them. It's contents were an oil/fuel/water type mix that had a much stronger odor. Not a fuel smell, but a sharper chemical smell compared to the odor of used oil. It caught a total of 67cc which is just over 13 1/2 tsp.

 

- Final totals:

UPR - 17cc

RX - 67cc

 

The RX can caught 4 times the amount the UPR can caught, after the UPR can removed what it could. I said from the beginning I would be surprised if the RX can could pull 10% of what the UPR caught, since it was second in line. If someone told me it would catch an equal amount I would have said BS. For it to catch 4 times what the UPR can caught is unreal.

 

Report 4:

 

The routing of cans has been reversed so the second phase of the test is underway. I cleaned the cans and hoses so neither has an advantage. I also checked the inside of the hoses as I disassembled everything. The exit hose from the UPR was dripping with oil and it made a mess as I took it apart. The exit hose from the UPR was clean and dry. It still looked new. That is what prompted me to clean all the hoses before starting this phase. Is the double can routing helping the second can that much, or is one can that much better. Time will tell again.

 

Report 5:

 

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming…

 

 

Phase 2 is almost complete now, thanks to some extra mileage for work. I'll report on that soon and begin phase 3.

 

 

As I said above, UPR shipped parts for me to do phase 3 of the test. I bought my UPR can in June, and they changed the can slightly since then. The new diffuser/extension will only fit cans made after that, so they shipped a full new kit to test. Thank you UPR for helping with this, and for your input in this thread.

After shipping the kit, Joe@UPR asked me to remove the mesh from the exit side of my existing can for the remainder of phase 2, and to remove the mesh from the exit side of the new can before starting phase 3. I removed it from both (phase 2 was half way done when I removed it from the existing can). When I was removing the mesh from the short side of the new can (in preparation for phase 3), I realized the diffuser was assembled backwards. For our 5.0 F150's the long side of the diffuser must be on the passenger side of the can when installed. I disassembled, removed the mesh packed up in the can top on the exit/passenger side, and reassembled the can with diffuser. For anyone who might have received their cans assembled by UPR, you should check to see if it was assembled correctly before installing. (EDIT: Joe notes below they assemble the cans for shipping, and all cans should be assembled for your own installation needs) I also had a small piece of the stainless steel mesh (1/8") drop out when I was doing that. I wasn't thrilled with that so I unrolled, and lightly tapped the mesh in case there were any other loose pieces, but there weren't. A quick note on the UPR kit... it is much improved since I bought mine. The hoses are pre cut to the proper lengths, the elbow fittings are nickel rather than plastic, and they include Ford OEM snap on valve cover and intake fittings.

 

 

More to come soon!

 

Report 6:

 

Test Results

 

- I'll summarize the test to date. The first phase was to test the UPR vs the RX catch cans on a 5.0, both base models, with the UPR first in line and RX installed to catch anything the UPR missed. Those first phase results were: UPR - 17cc, RX - 67cc. The 'first in line' UPR caught 20% of the total volume. See post 37 in this thread for more details. The cans were cleaned and reinstalled in reverse order for phase 2, RX first and then UPR.

 

Phase 2 Test Results

- The Weather has been average northern Ohio spring weather. Some rain, fog, cool nights, warm and hot days.

 

- Driving has been about the same through both phases. I good mix of rural roads, some small towns, highways, and approximately 40% of the miles on interstates at 65 - 80mph. Mostly average style driving, with a few very heavy accelerations mixed in. A little heavy hauling, and no towing.

 

- What they caught this time might have been predicted by some (after the results of phase 1). RX was first in line, with the UPR after it to catch anything the RX might miss.

The combined volume of gunk was half of that caught in the first phase. The first phase had some cold weather which accounted for more water in the mix and the higher volume.

The contents from the RX can was mostly oil/fuel, and had a strong chemical/solvent smell again. It caught 35.5cc total which is approximately 7 1/8 tsp.

The UPR can caught about the same mix of oil/fuel, but didn't smell quite as strong. Halfway through this phase, Joe@UPR asked me to remove the mesh on the exit side of the UPR can. I did that, but noticed no difference in what it was catching. But since it was second in line, and there was little to catch, that's understandable. The UPR can caught 1.75cc total which is approximately 1/3 tsp. With so little collecting this time, I monitored the contents of the UPR can but didn't empty it until the end of the test.

 

- Phase 2 Totals:

RX - 35.5cc

UPR - 1.75cc

 

- Other tidbits include the 'first in line' RX can caught 95% of the total volume. The exit hoses were very clean from both cans. The last few tanks of gas have produced slightly higher than my normal MPGs, but it's too early to tell on that (more to follow after phase 3).

 

-Phase 3, using the UPR can extension and diffuser, is underway. Details will follow.

 

Final Test Results

 

- I'll summarize the test phases. The first phase was to test the UPR vs the RX catch cans on a 5.0, both base models, with the UPR first in line and RX installed to catch anything the UPR missed. Those first phase results were: UPR - 17cc, RX - 67cc. The 'first in line' UPR caught 20% of the total volume. See post 37 in this thread for more details on phase 1. The cans were cleaned and reinstalled in reverse order for phase 2, RX first and then UPR. The second phase results were: RX - 35.50cc, UPR - 1.75cc. The 'first in line' RX caught 95% of the total volume. See post 143 for more details on phase 2.

 

Phase 3 Test Results

 

- This time the UPR can was first in line as in phase 1, but it had the new can extension and diffuser added. It also had the mesh material removed from the exit side of the can.

 

- The Weather has been average northern Ohio early summer weather. Some rain with warm and hot days.

 

- Driving has been a good mix of rural roads, some small towns, highways, and approximately 60% of the miles on interstates at 65 - 80mph. Mostly average style driving, some steep hill climbs, and some very heavy accelerations mixed in. A little heavy hauling again, and no towing. I'll add some more thoughts on driving and MPGs below.

 

- What they caught was a mixed bag. UPR was first in line, with the RX after it to catch anything the extended UPR might miss.

The combined volume of gunk was down from the last phase, again. I assume it is due to the warmer weather and maybe my engine is using less oil with more miles? Either way, my test looks at the percent each can catches, compared to the total caught for that phase, so the volume isn't critical.

The contents from the extended UPR can was mostly oil, and had a used oil smell. The UPR caught 14.75cc which is approximately 3 tsp.

The RX can caught a fuel/water/oil mix. It smelled much more harsh again. The RX can caught 16.00cc which is approximately 3 1/4 tsp.

 

- Phase 3 Totals:

UPR - 14.75cc (48%)

RX - 16.00cc (52%)

 

- Other thoughts on the results. The contents of each phase showed me the RX does a better job of removing more than oil. It always contained more water/fuel type liquids, while the UPR contained mostly oil. I don't know if it is due to the can design, the 'out front' mounting style of the RX, or both.

For anyone buying or thinking of upgrading their UPR can, I strongly recommend figuring out how to mount it out front, and would definitely add the valve that Joe@UPR is offering. I really think the 'out front' cooling effect will help it catch even more, and the valve would be worth the price for ease of emptying it. Having the RX can to compare to when emptying, the front mount and valve are no brainers.

As I said at the end of phase 2, my MPGs have increased slightly. I have done nothing different to my truck over the past year, other than adding the RX can to the UPR for this test. My driving style is very similar from tank to tank, I fill up at the same stations, etc. But since having both cans in series, and essentially removing 95% or more of the PCV byproducts, my MPGs have increased. Up to that point my lifetime MPGs were 17.5. Nearly every tank for the past year gave me the same results, 17.5. I would have some trips that would net 20 MPG, but the other short trips would always pull it back down for the same tank average - close to 17.5. My recent tank averages have all been over 18 MPG, with a few over 19, and as high as 19.5. My last tank included hauling approximately 1000 lbs of payload, through some long hills/mountains of PA, and I got 18.8 MPG. It could be the summer fuel mix combined with an engine that is broken in, but the timing is peculiar. Whatever the reason, I like it!

 

 

So please note how detailed this test was done, and it was done by a UPR customer with UPR's guiding him on the same assumption that ALL cans are going to be nearly the same.

315 dollars seems a little steep, seems most with any kind of catch can have decently clean valves.

 

The Elite E2-X has over $100 in AN fittings and billet valves alone. not including the 6061 billet they are cut from. Combine that in how it protects the GDI engine avoiding the damage, etc. caused by these issues and it is a small price to pay. Look at the average cost of a CAI kit, or what many put into after market wheels, etc. As the example above shows, education is really needed to actually realize just why these new un-equaled in effectiveness systems are a bargain when cans that did work well for old port injection engines do little to address the unique needs of the new GDI engines.

 

If anyone needs more technical info, this is my expertise having been involved in the Automotive engineering side of the industry for decades, and GDI since 2008 as my main focus. I am involved in the R&D of all things GDI and work with most every GDI engine sold today from domestic to import including the super car barns that have some robust solutions, but installing any other design is basically at best going to slow the rate, but will not prevent the premature wear to the valve guides that occurs with even minor build up. GDI valves operate at a far higher heat range as no fuel cools the valves as port injection did, so these are not soft carbon deposits as in the past. These are hard crystalline deposits that every cycle of the valve draws these hard abrasive deposits into the valve guides wearing the bronze alloy as well as several other negatives.

 

Anyone that needs pictures, data, detailed explanations I am happy to provide the best education on these new engines you can find, and do NOT blame GM or the other automakers. Federally mandated CAFE fuel standards has forced all auto makers to implement GDI, and there are many benefits to it over port injection, but these issues are a huge negative that to date can only be addressed by you, the end user.

 

 

[GDI Tech]

http://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/elite-engineering-catch-can/

That link is to the original line that are one of the best for port injection engines (pre 2014 for GM's V8) and are NOT proper for GDI!!!!

 

Make SURE you get the E2-X line....they are the only proper ones for 2014 or newer. The original Elite, and E2 are GREAT for pre-2014 and are the proper designs for them.

[AZRenegade]

So all of us that bought your original Elite cans are out $175?? Now we have to buy the $300 E2X for proper protection! This can thing is starting to stink on ice!

[Jimmy W]

I'm gonna use the one that I was told to use by the people that build them?

[jrob56]

I'm gonna use the one that I was told to use by the people that build them

 

I ordered the same one you did so should be good. I messaged Elite though to see their thoughts on this.

Edited November 9, 2015 by jrob56

[Silverado-Hareek]

According to my side mechanic, regardless of which catch can you use, you can never catch 100% of the "stuff" getting into the intake and fouling up the valves. Yes a catch can will catch most of it, but not 100% and you still need to do some type of a cleaning like the BG induction service.

 

So regardless of which elite engineering can you bought, or even if you have the RX can, you still need to and should do a BG induction service every 15,000 miles at a minimum if you want their warranty coverage for your engine. I'm sure you can stretch that time frame out much longer if you have a catch can and you don't care about BG's warranty for your engine.

[Jsdirt]

I agree that you'll never get 100% of the mist out of the system, but 15k intervals seem excessive to me.

 

Yet another reason I'll never own a DI engine.

[jrob56]

According to my side mechanic, regardless of which catch can you use, you can never catch 100% of the "stuff" getting into the intake and fouling up the valves. Yes a catch can will catch most of it, but not 100% and you still need to do some type of a cleaning like the BG induction service.

 

So regardless of which elite engineering can you bought, or even if you have the RX can, you still need to and should do a BG induction service every 15,000 miles at a minimum if you want their warranty coverage for your engine. I'm sure you can stretch that time frame out much longer if you have a catch can and you don't care about BG's warranty for your engine.

 

This was my thought process, but I have 40k miles when I got the truck so not BG warranty for me. Ill be using a chemical treatment of some kind right before my next oil change, probably the CRC stuff.

[Jimmy W]

 

I ordered the same one you did so should be good. I messaged Elite though to see their thoughts on this.

Just talked to Steve at Elite and yes it is correct one for our trucks?