Shake or Vibration Issues

[rpoffen]

Is there anyone in the Denver, Co. area that has a significant vibration problem? There is a consumer advocate show on radio station KHOW called the Tom Martino show. He might be able to help out and bring the issue to a higher visibility. He even has a friend on the show most Friday's (that is his car day show) that owns Purifoy Chevrolet.

If anyone can get some pressure put on GM, he can.

Call 303-713-8255. Even when he is not on the air (which is 9am - noon weekdays), someone can still take your information and schedule when to get you on the show to talk about your issue.

[abominable z71]

I'd be interested in knowing what everyone's road force balance numbers are.

Mine are 9 9 6 and 0 and the damn thing still vibrates. There is however radial run out on three of the hubs. I asked the service manager at my dealership what the allowable radial run out spec is but he couldn't or wouldn't give me the info and I haven't been able to find it anywhere nor would they look at it as a possible cause because my vibration was deemed within GM spec. I suspect my issue could be the hub's but I'd have to replace them out of my own pocket which isn't a huge deal to have a vibration free truck but I would be pissed if they have just as much run out as the ones on the truck already.

[CCDenali]

 

I have the locking lug nuts on my 15 and don't have this issue. From following this form I suspect the axle shafts or something near them are out of alignment. Not once have I seen anyone say they have been inspected;

 

There are three types of major vibrations:

 

1.) Front end: You'll feel it in the steering wheel more than anything and will be left and right vibration.

2.) Rear end: You'll feel it 'behind you' and it will be left to right vibration.

3.) You won't know where its coming and it feels overwhelming: axle shafts or something similar is causing a front to back vibration.

 

So far no one has described exactly how the vibration 'feels' in details (from what I've read). Also its pretty sad GM can't narrow this down

 

Yea after further reading and discussing with the mechanic the locking nuts if they were off an ounce or so wouldn't really show itself unless at high speeds if that. A true balancing with the wheels on the vehicle would eliminate concern of this.

 

Dealer thinks its not tires since they previously road force these however I am not certain as the vibration grew worse after they replaced and re-balanced everything. They will begin looking at drive line/ drive shaft balancing, ring pinion, axle, and break out the picoscope. I requested if they road force to provide the results for each tire.

 

My vibration is perhaps a little different from what I've read or seen described which makes me think it is indeed just poor tires or balancing but that is yet to be seen...at least that's what i'm hoping for rather than already replacing components on a 700mile vehicle.

 

Symptoms:

 

1.) Happens at all speeds. Mechanic on ride along noticed it even in the dealer concrete flat parking lot.

 

2.) Vibration is within the steering wheel as well as the center console, passenger seat, as well as back seat according to friends who have sat in the back to review.

 

3.)You can visually see the passenger seat hop if nobody is sitting in it. Center console will shake water or rattle whatever is in the cup holders. You can visually see the steering wheel shake as well as the gear selector handle.

 

4.)Steering wheel vibration is consistent and quick...reminds me of the groove lines of a highway with varying degrees of severity. On rough roads it feels like all four wheels are not planted firmly. It causes poor control/traction. On flat or better quality roads it is still present and can be noticed on deceleration or acceleration. This does not matter if it is within 4cyl or 8 cyl mode.

 

A bit of info that I'm not sure if I included or not initially this all started after carrying 4 adult passengers and roughly 400lbs of weight in the bed (two wall units and small end pieces). I began noticing the day after this although when the balancing happened it made this even more pronounced. If this is weight in the bed related then perhaps it is ring and pinion which I've read can cause both passenger and steering wheel vibration. First time I took it in they replaced 1 tire saying it road force balanced at 27lbs..not sure if weight could bring a bad tire to surface either. At any rate with my somewhat limited mechanical ability its really just guesswork research on my part...I'll be sure to report what changes once I get the truck back.

[ikaika1984]

 

Yea after further reading and discussing with the mechanic the locking nuts if they were off an ounce or so wouldn't really show itself unless at high speeds if that. A true balancing with the wheels on the vehicle would eliminate concern of this.

 

Dealer thinks its not tires since they previously road force these however I am not certain as the vibration grew worse after they replaced and re-balanced everything. They will begin looking at drive line/ drive shaft balancing, ring pinion, axle, and break out the picoscope. I requested if they road force to provide the results for each tire.

 

My vibration is perhaps a little different from what I've read or seen described which makes me think it is indeed just poor tires or balancing but that is yet to be seen...at least that's what i'm hoping for rather than already replacing components on a 700mile vehicle.

 

Symptoms:

 

1.) Happens at all speeds. Mechanic on ride along noticed it even in the dealer concrete flat parking lot.

 

2.) Vibration is within the steering wheel as well as the center console, passenger seat, as well as back seat according to friends who have sat in the back to review.

 

3.)You can visually see the passenger seat hop if nobody is sitting in it. Center console will shake water or rattle whatever is in the cup holders. You can visually see the steering wheel shake as well as the gear selector handle.

 

4.)Steering wheel vibration is consistent and quick...reminds me of the groove lines of a highway with varying degrees of severity. On rough roads it feels like all four wheels are not planted firmly. It causes poor control/traction. On flat or better quality roads it is still present and can be noticed on deceleration or acceleration. This does not matter if it is within 4cyl or 8 cyl mode.

 

A bit of info that I'm not sure if I included or not initially this all started after carrying 4 adult passengers and roughly 400lbs of weight in the bed (two wall units and small end pieces). I began noticing the day after this although when the balancing happened it made this even more pronounced. If this is weight in the bed related then perhaps it is ring and pinion which I've read can cause both passenger and steering wheel vibration. First time I took it in they replaced 1 tire saying it road force balanced at 27lbs..not sure if weight could bring a bad tire to surface either. At any rate with my somewhat limited mechanical ability its really just guesswork research on my part...I'll be sure to report what changes once I get the truck back.

I have a 15 Sierra Denali 5.3L 4x4 CC. I haven't carried 4,but I have carried 3. However, not with that load.. Got mine in April 8k miles no issues

 

Sent from my SG Note 4 on Tapatalk

I've been wondering if there were any Denali trim lines with this issue

 

Sent from my SG Note 4 on Tapatalk

[pm26]

If you have your wheels balanced, you can at least do something to feel confident that the balancing is reasonably good. First, ask them to calibrate the machine just prior to balancing the wheels. This can make a huge difference. Secondly, ask the technician if they have flange plates which will hold the wheel by the lug nut holes on the balancer. This plate mounting, in combination with a properly sized low taper cone or collet on the inside of the wheel center hole will give much better results than just using a centering cone to center the wheel on the machine.

 

If they have no flange plates and use only centering cones, ask them not to use the cone on the outside of wheel if you have chrome clad wheels. The reason is, a cone placed this way is likely to catch on the cladding, not centering the wheel properly. Most usual centering of the wheel with the cone is using the cone on the inside of the wheel center hole, and rubber lined pressure cup (part of the shaft wing nut assembly) on the outside. Make sure the cone selcted does not catch on the wheel hole inner lip, if there is one, as this may cause a very inaccurate balance.

 

If they have a road force machine like Hunter 9700, they can measure the road force variation. The machine will flag it if the road force variation is in excess of the preset number. In such a case the technician should remove the wheel from the machine, break the bead, and rotate the tire180 degrees on the rim to attempt to correct the excessive road force variation reading. (I wonder how many even try that?)

 

Anyway, assuming the wheel/tire passes the road force variation test, let them balance the wheel. On these type wheels the usual mode is using hammer on weights on the inside of the wheel and stick on weights on the rim outside portion, just inside the wheel spokes. Up to three ounces of weights per side is about the practical limit for a decent 18 to 22" wheel/tire combination.

 

After they balance the wheel and the wheel is spun again and the machine shows all zeros, ask the technician to loosen the wheel, rotate it about 30 degrees on the machine, then retighten it and spin it again. If all zeros show again, you can be somewhat confident that the wheel was mounted correctly on the machine and the balance will be good. When using flange plates, the blance is usually very consistent due to more accurate wheel centering. (Note: actual rotation of about 30 degrees is crucial. Merely loosening the wheel and retightening without rotating will not accomplish anything).

 

If the balancing cone or the machine shaft are worn, the balancing will be off as it will not be possible to properly center the wheel. This is usually not the case, but it could be a factor with heavily used balancers.

 

And finally, don't let them dazzle you with all that road force talk. Road force variation measurement is simply the degree of out-of-roundness of a tire. An egg shaped tire cannot be balanced properly no matter what. This is why it is important to reject the tire if the road force variation is too high. In the past they used thread shaving machines to "true" the tires, and they worked quite well. Now they replace the tires. Low road force number do not necessarily guarantee good wheel balance if the technician is sloppy or the machine not properly calibrated. So low road force variation and proper wheel balancing are not synonymous.

Edited November 17, 2015 by pm26

[PMurray]

Sure, but if the root cause was a bad batch of parts, GM in theory shouldn't be as resistant to fixing this since they shouldn't have to eat the cost of parts and labour. They should be able to recover the costs from AAM.

AAM may not have been cutting corners while cutting gears. This 5 to 2 cut process seems interesting and ironically was designed to reduce nvh.

Either way, it looks like GM engaged and have found the issue(s). This is great news.

Guess I wasn't clear... GM is cutting corners if they install parts that don't meet specs. "In theory" isn't relevant. LEGALLY they must bear the cost of repair/replacement if they install bad parts.

[FogDucker]

Guess I wasn't clear... GM is cutting corners if they install parts that don't meet specs. "In theory" isn't relevant. LEGALLY they must bear the cost of repair/replacement if they install bad parts.

Sure, GM should bear the cost of the repair/replacement as it relates to us, the customer. My point was that GM could recover some of those costs from their supplier if they provided defective or out-of-spec parts. I wouldn't be surprised if suppliers have insurance for circumstances like this.

 

This is all irrelevant anyways since the root cause of the vibration isn't necessarily the ring & pinion as other members have pointed out.

[PMurray]

Sure, GM should bear the cost of the repair/replacement as it relates to us, the customer. My point was that GM could recover some of those costs from their supplier if they provided defective or out-of-spec parts. I wouldn't be surprised if suppliers have insurance for circumstances like this.

 

This is all irrelevant anyways since the root cause of the vibration isn't necessarily the ring & pinion as other members have pointed out.

The point I keep trying to make is GM CANNOT RECOVER COSTS FROM THEIR SUPPLIER. PERIOD. No "should," no "in theory." ZERO recovery. That is the legal reality.

 

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[14silverado4.3]

My service manager has agreed to a reflash of the Power Steering Smooth Road Shake Comp software.

[mikegmi2]

The bad rear axles cause the infamous buzz/grind/vibe noise and feel that is mostly felt in the floor and steering wheel.

 

Don't forget the gas pedal vibe (still have not heard of any fix for this one, and was the root cause for my BBB case on first truck).

 

Then there's those Goodyear SRA tires. One of numerous parts these trucks were built with that are out of spec (or large batches of them at least). What garbage tires. For anyone not prepared, these will be done in 30-40k miles. They're way too soft to be original equipment truck tires. Trash.

 

We then have the body mounts...said to be redesigned and made of a more rigid plastic material which let all the vibrations into the cab. Is the truck operating as it should, and are the mounts to blame? If GM spent a little more on nice rubber mounts would this have never been an issue? Who knows.

 

The BBB is the way to go...start your cases...keep cycling these vibrating trucks back to GM (at their cost) until they learn how to build them correctly.

 

It's a shame too, because they really are nice trucks...

[C6Bill]

I know this is from the previous generation of trucks but it is still extremely interesting

 

http://www.silveradosierra.com/suspension/hydraulic-body-mounts-t50705.html

 

 

 

PIT3009L: Suspension Vibration Or Frame Beaming At 40-60 MPH (C/K TRUCKS)
#PIT3009L: Suspension Vibration Or Frame Beaming At 40-60 MPH (64-80 KM/H) - keywords front rear shake shock spring tire - (Dec 3, 2009)


Subject: Suspension Vibration or Frame Beaming at 40-60 mph (64 - 80 km/h)


Models: 1999-2009 Chevrolet Silverado and Silverado Classic

1999-2009 GMC Sierra and Sierra Classic
The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
Beam shake vibration is usually felt in the seat and occurring at speeds between 40-50 mph (64 - 80 km/h). Hertz readings using an EVA tool are normally between 8-24 Hz. This condition is most common on extended cab and crew cab models but has also been noted in other models.

Recommendation/Instructions:
The severity of beam shake may vary from vehicle to vehicle. To determine if the concern is beam shake, please perform the following:

•Test drive vehicle to confirm the condition. A beam shake condition will usually respond to concrete type pavements more than asphalt, so the vehicle should be driven over both surfaces if possible.
•Place 200-500 pounds in the pickup bed between the closed tailgate and the wheel wells. A beaming condition should dissipate.
Note: Tires with excessive Radial Force Variation (RFV) or out-of-roundness can intensify the frame beaming concern. The following radial force variation numbers should be used as a guide:

P-Metric tires (2wd 1500)
12 lbs or less

P-Metric tires (all others)
24 lbs or less

LT-tires
30 lbs or less


If the concern is determined to be beam shake, this is a characteristic of the vehicle. GM Engineering has released updated body mounts to reducing this concern for the Crew and Extended Cab Models. There will be no changes made to the Regular Cab Models.

FOR CREW AND EXTENDED CAB MODELS, REPLACE THE REAR CAB MOUNTS WITH UPDATED PARTS LISTED BELOW. THESE PARTS SHOULD NOT BE USED ON REGULAR CAB MODELS.

Note: 2009 1500 MODELS (WITHOUT RPO Z83) ALREADY HAVE THESE NEW BODY MOUNTS. DO NOT REPLACE THE BODY MOUNTS ON THESE VEHICLES FOR THIS ISSUE.

New upper and lower mounts should be installed at the left and right rear cab position. The new LOWER mount is a two piece design, meaning there is a rubber mount with a metal washer. Some models may use a one piece lower mount, meaning the rubber mount has a metal washer molded into it. If the vehicle has the one piece lower mount design, washers (PN 15854745, Qty 2) will be needed to be used with the new lower mount.

Note: Some new body mounts may have an oily film covering them. This oily film may be left on the mounts during the assembly process and does not indicate a faulty mount. Do not replace the mount for this issue.

Upper Mount 25791031 Qty 2 (DO NOT USE ON 2009 1500 MODELS WITHOUT RPO Z83, see note above)

Lower Mount 25791032 Qty 2 (DO NOT USE ON 2009 1500 MODELS WITHOUT RPO Z83, see note above)

Washer 15854745 Qty 2 (if needed)

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools,safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

[STAYBG]

I'm waiting for the day that a drivshaft lets loose or a wheel hub falls off and causes some serious damage. Gm will have a hell of a lawsuit against them.there telling me that the vibration is normal.. And then they tell me they don't have a fix. Well its unsafe. How am I suppose to know if my truck is vibrating because of its normal characteristic of because my wheel is about to fall off and send my truck out of control and possibly kill or hurt people? The loaner truck they gave me shook worse then mine and the gm rep also admitted that mine road better then his. So that's 4 out of 4 trucks right there that shake.. I hope gm gets ass raped for what there putting us through. Can we Sue for mental anguish cause it stresses me out every time I drive this damn thing....

[Trbrown47]

Possible solution to vibration:

1. File a complaint with the BBB

2. Go to arbitration

3. During the test drive, ensure 5 adults (2 from the BBB, 2 from GM, and you as the driver) are along for the ride.

You see this adds close to 600 lbs which dampens vibration and does not allow you to reproduce the vibration for the BBB Arbitrator. The GM Field Service Engineer agreed the additional weight will indeed dampen vibration, and we proved it! (Unfortunately, I neglected to bring this up with Arbitrator during the test drive.)

So, a sand bag test is underway (Lowes 60 lb tube sand bags). Will report findings, but I'm not sure what my next step will be if my test is conclusive. I'm not crazy about running around with several hundred pounds of sand bags in the box though...

[Aaron1085]

Body / engine mounts is the culprit. They won't redesign due to having to redo crash test results and ratings. They simply "wing it" truck after truck.

 

 

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[14silverado4.3]

This truck is depressing as hell, all vibration I have is in the steering wheel.

 

The rear seems calm. Going for a reflash tomorrow of the Smooth Road Shake software.

 

I loaded a 4 wheeler in the back last night in prep for WV deer season, the truck road much better all night and did some highway driving.

 

Left the 4 wheeler in the bed last night and left on my 30 minute highway drive to work, drove much worse than last night.

Something is not right and I am beginning to feel unsafe at highway speeds. It just seems disconnected from the road, like the wheels and tires are doing their own vibration dance with little regard to road undulations.

 

I have a case open with GM. Waiting for who knows what!

 

Going for a reflash tomorrow of the Smooth Road Shake software. Wish me luck!