Big Block with 6sp Manual

BrokenBoots · December 14, 2002

I'm looking into a 3500 with the 8.1L and the 6 sp tranny. Impossible to find here so I'll have to order one.

Question, is the 1st like a granny gear? Very low, hardly used.

Does the towing capacity go down with a manual? 4X4?

Is a console with buckets available with the 6sp? 60/40 only?

Anyonw who has the manual, any regrets?

I found one big block but it has the Allison.

Thoughts and input appreciated.

Hullie · December 14, 2002

I've got a 2500HD CC w/ the 8.1 and the 6-spd. I had to order it. I think it took between 7 and 8 weeks to come in.

1st gear is pretty much unused except during the break-in (recommended) and towing heavy loads. According to the data sheets, the towing capacity goes up with the 6-spd. I think it's mainly due to the fact that you can only get the 4.10s and I think the Allison's come with 3.73s.

You can only get the 6spd w/ the 40/20/40 seats (I don't know if 60/40 front are an option anymore, rears are 60/40 in the CC). It's not available with the buckets and console. I also couldn't manage to get it to configure with the LT trim package. It was fine with me as I wanted the LS anyway. That engine/tranny might be available in the base package for the 3500, it wasn't for the 2500HD.

I have no regrets, I love it. I'll be putting the 3.73 gears in and going with larger tires though. I hardly ever tow, it's just a commuter for me basically. Even when I do tow, it won't be huge loads. I got it mainly for the CC and so I could say I have the big block w/ 6-spd manual ;)

gandolphxx · December 14, 2002

Before you change the gears, put the larger tires on and see how it runs, you may be glad you have the 4.10's - my $.02

Colorado Kid · December 17, 2002

I'm looking into a 3500 with the 8.1L and the 6 sp tranny. Impossible to find here so I'll have to order one.

Question, is the 1st like a granny gear? Very low, hardly used.

Does the towing capacity go down with a manual? 4X4?

Is a console with buckets available with the 6sp? 60/40 only?

Anyonw who has the manual, any regrets?

I found one big block but it has the Allison.

Thoughts and input appreciated.

Yes, 1st is granny low. I use it alot when towing, almost never otherwise.

Towing Capacity goes up with manual and down with 4x4...in both cases because Gross Combination Weight Rating remains 22,000#. The manual trans is lighter than the Allison, and 4x4 is heavier than 2WD.

No console with the 6 speed...the consol occupies the same space the shifter moves through. At least on 2002's no casette tapes with 6 speed either. I wanted the 6th seat, so this was no big deal to me. Unfortuately, for reasons only the General knows, leather was also unavailable with 6 speeds...I almost bought the other brand over that issue.

No regrets.

The only 6 speed I found to drive before I orderred mine was a Big Block. I liked it. Very smooth and VERY strong.

CMNTMXR81 · December 17, 2002

Unfortuately, for reasons only the General knows, leather was also unavailable with 6 speeds...I almost bought the other brand over that issue.

No regrets.

The only 6 speed I found to drive before I orderred mine was a Big Block. I liked it. Very smooth and VERY strong.

Costs, marketing and manufacturing issues is why.

Lear who mostly supplies GM's seats does so in mass. In general when someone wants to upgrade to leather, they also generally favor the split power buckets with center console anyway. Building a few leather 60/40 benches becomes unfeasable because the majority of 60/40 bench seats are for those who DON'T want leather. Hence, this makes it cheaper for Lear to build the seats (both buckets and bench) and it costs less for GM to build and then for the consumer I mentioned above in regards to marketing.

This isn't the 60's and 70's anymore where you could pretty much order anything anyway you wanted. In order to streamline both manufacturing and costs, steps like this are taken.

BDBWTE · December 17, 2002

I've only driven on HD with a 8.1 and a 6spd they seem to be like unicorns. I liked it and yes the first gear is pretty useless even with 33" tires. The truck will pull good and will straight lay you back in your seat in acceleration. I like it a lot. If I had to do it again I would get the 8.1 with a 6spd.. Definately less than the diesel yet it will get the same loads moving. Plus in the little 6.0 I've got I pass everything but a gas station as it is.

Colorado Kid · December 18, 2002

Unfortuately, for reasons only the General knows, leather was also unavailable with 6 speeds...I almost bought the other brand over that issue.

No regrets.

The only 6 speed I found to drive before I orderred mine was a Big Block. I liked it. Very smooth and VERY strong.

Costs, marketing and manufacturing issues is why.

Lear who mostly supplies GM's seats does so in mass. In general when someone wants to upgrade to leather, they also generally favor the split power buckets with center console anyway. Building a few leather 60/40 benches becomes unfeasable because the majority of 60/40 bench seats are for those who DON'T want leather. Hence, this makes it cheaper for Lear to build the seats (both buckets and bench) and it costs less for GM to build and then for the consumer I mentioned above in regards to marketing.

This isn't the 60's and 70's anymore where you could pretty much order anything anyway you wanted. In order to streamline both manufacturing and costs, steps like this are taken.

Yeah but....

I could have had the 60/40 bench in leather, I just couldn't have it with a 6 speed ??? In fact I drove a 2002 SLT with a 60/40 bench in leather with my wife and kids the day I orderred my truck. It had an Allison of course, and with all the extra toys compared to mine it cost about $10,000 more! (Allison, 4x4, SLT trim, heated leather seats...)

If I'd have gotten organized a little quicker I could have gotten a 2001 with both...Somebody at thedieselpage did!

It wouldn't have annoyed me so much, but the "configurater" at edumunds.com had allowed me to "build" the truck with leather seats...then the dealer couldn't do it. Later edmunds corrected their site, and I also discoverred that kbb.com correctly flagged the combination as unavailble. If I hadn't thought for a little while that I could do it, I would have just spec'd the truck the wya I eventually did, whithout going down the street to the 4 letter dealer to look at the pretty XLT Lariat Crew Cab 6 speed first!

Fortunately the racket that commenced as soon as the "Wait to Start" light went out brought me to my senses...I drove it, but I didn't buy it....2003 models (with the 6.0 PSDG2) might have been a different story...and the Mayor has a crew cab...sorta....now too.

arm40 · December 18, 2002

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Had to put truck in for service 2 weeks ago. I have a 2002 3500 4x4 cc 8.1 ZF6 6 speed 4.10 rear . Here the problme when shifting gears between 2 and 3 engine would rev to 3000 rpm for about 10 to 15 sec when clutch was engaged Then would be ok for a short time. this is what dealer came up with. scan system for codes,no codes, no bulletins or pts. tech drove home several nights, condition would occur 1 time going home and sometimes 1 time back, called tech assist, told to disconnect battery overnight reconnect and drive , drive home 2 more nights after doing so condition did not aeoccur.according to enginer, may have beenlugging engine insted of downingshifting and computer learned saver condition and is the way it is beins driven, spoke to tech assist again after condition didnt reoccur, nothing more we can do closed case .if anybody else had this happen let me know . had truck 10 days still not sure it is fixed has not happend sence i got it back. arm40 http://www.picturetrail.com/Roozers

Larry · December 18, 2002

1st gear is pretty much unused except during the break-in (recommended) and towing heavy loads.

I've only driven on HD with a 8.1 and a 6spd they seem to be like unicorns. I liked it and yes the first gear is pretty useless even with 33" tires.

So you guys are finally starting to learn how to drive your trucks. 1 gear is a compound gear used only for extreme duty not normal driving. So really what you have is a 5 speed with compound. The NV4500 5 speed manual is actually a 4 speed with compound and the old SM465 4 speed manuals were basically a 3 speeds with compound.

Since I left corporate office and moved out in the field in the service side of the business I haven’t kept up with the data book in quit a while but when I got my 01’ HD, electric bucket seats were still available with a 6spd in a 1SB package. Who knows those CAR guys on the Silverado brand team probably made more interior option content changes to further satisfy JD Power since then.

Had to put truck in for service 2 weeks ago. I have a 2002 3500 4x4 cc 8.1 ZF6 6 speed 4.10 rear . Here the problem when shifting gears between 2 and 3 engine would rev to 3000 rpm for about 10 to 15 sec when clutch was engaged Then would be ok for a short time. this is what dealer came up with.

arm40,

The good news is this condition will slowly lessen, as the truck “learns” your driving habits, but the bad news is you will most likely always notice the flair in between shifts. Mine does it, my old 98’ Z71 with a 5 speed did it and pretty much every other 1996 and newer OBDII gasoline truck with a manual does it too. Wait until you use you’re A/C on a hot summer day then you will really see some RPM’s flairs between shifts. The reason for the flair is to reduce hydrocarbons as the engine decelerates between shifts…something is not noticeable in an automatic equipped truck. Manual transmission vehicles are higher polluters of hydrocarbons, which is one small reason why they are becoming scarcer every model year. The other reasons are much more complicated. It is probably a safe assumption to say your dealer is not aware if this issue mainly because they only sell 1 manual to every 50 automatics and only 1 every 50 manual trans owner complains. And for whatever is it worth, disconnecting the battery will not by any means reset, erase codes or make any changes to the Vehicle Control Module. GM Powertrain prides themselves in stating that a VCM can be removed from a vehicles and power supply for approximately 10 years and DTC’s, VCI profile and all other information will still remain active. Since OBDII has not been around for 10 years, I guess we can only take their word for it but I know for sure disconnecting a VCM for days or weeks on end will not change a thing.

You think finding a manual transmission truck is hard to find now wait until 2007 when the auto manufacturers have to deal with the emissions standards of OBDIII. I will take a stab and go on record to say that you will not get a manual in any V8 gasoline powered light trucks below 8600 GVWR after 2007. Watch what California mandates in the next 2 years and you will see what every body else will be doing in 5.

The 8.1 and a 6-speed manual are a nice mix. But, like I have said over and over in other posts, I don’t really think the ZF-650 is really the right manual transmission for the job as the New Venture 5600 6 speed is twice the transmission in terms of strength and overall friendliness. I mainly only own manual trans vehicles but I have to say my 01’ HD is not exactly my favorite manual I have ever owned…actually I hate it. Almost to the point I wish I had bought the city slicker Allison. The ZF’s shift pattern is awkward, the gates are notchier than a 20-year-old sm465 4 speed not to mention GM did a pee poor job at the ease of the clutch engagement. Although it has loosened up in 18K miles it still is not as smooth a Dodge NV5600.

vinnie · December 18, 2002

I'm looking into a 3500 with the 8.1L and the 6 sp tranny. Impossible to find here so I'll have to order one.

Question, is the 1st like a granny gear? Very low, hardly used.

Anyone who has the manual, any regrets?

I found one big block but it has the Allison.

Thoughts and input appreciated.

My thoughts:

As you know it is hard to find the big block with the manual tranny. Here was in essence my conversation with my salesman:

SM: What are you looking for?

Me: A 2500HD Extended Cab, Long Bed.

SM: I might have 1 or 2.

Me: With a big block.

SM: I could probably locate one.

Me: And a 6 speed manual.

SM: You'll be ordering that.

I had no problem ordering it, especially since I wanted some goofy options. As far as 1st gear, I used it during break-in and now when I have a load, but I actually find I use it most while performing parking manuevers. I can go between 1st and reverse really quick, which is nice considering the length of my truck. I really like the feel of the manual, and not to mention the $2,000 savings. But that's just me.

Vinnie

2003 Silverado Ext Cab LB 8.1L 6sp

arm40 · December 20, 2002

larry just to let you know gm will be buying my truck back. thay still do not know what is wrong with it. did put pcm and clutch module in it still dose it.will let you know the outcome. thanks for the info arm 40

doverarjim · December 21, 2002

I went to a some what local dealer today that was having a truck give away, and while I was waiting I walked around the lot just kicking tires and looking and I came a cross a 3500 (sorry don't remember if it was a 4X4 or not) with the Dmax and a 6 speed, it was the dark charcoal grey, reg cab and the dealer had put a steel flat bed on it. If any of you are looking for something like this let me know, I will be going by there on Sat, and then again on Monday.

jelisfc · December 23, 2002

Yes first gear is low but once the trans is broke in you can really leave a stoplight quick in first. My '78 4x4 had a granny low 4 spd. I always raced with granny low. I could leave the line by dumping the clutch and zero tire spin. I suprised many a car at least for the first two gears. After that they had me. Just don't under estimate a well driven manual. My Dmax ZF is similar. A little slower between first and second because of the shift pattern. It helps spool up the turbo for me. :thumb: