Upgrading Tow Vehicle And Tow Capability

wurgs · October 15, 2011

,

Wurgs,

Do you have LT tires on your trailer? If they are ST tires, everything I have read states the ST tires are only rated up to 65mph.

Chris

Not sure off hand, trailers now on seasonal lot but looked the tires up online before I purchased the rv a couple years ago and said rated for 85 mph.

wavery · October 15, 2011

,

Wurgs,

Do you have LT tires on your trailer? If they are ST tires, everything I have read states the ST tires are only rated up to 65mph.

Chris

Not sure off hand, trailers now on seasonal lot but looked the tires up online before I purchased the rv a couple years ago and said rated for 85 mph.

When you say "RV"........ are you talking M/H or trailer? ......big difference in tires.

marpel · October 15, 2011

Had to go out of town for a bit so have not been able to post lately, so here's a bit of an update.

I visited a dealer yesterday, looking to see if they had any 2011's still around (to take advantage of the $10,000 incentives they have going on). Unfortunately, at least up here in B.C. Canada, there is literally no choice locally with the 5.3L (without all the bling and options and 20 inch wheels - I am looking for a fairly basic truck). The nearest that comes even close to the package that I want is in Ontario and would add about $1800 to bring in and even then it isn't to my specifics. Unfortunately, there are no 6.2L's either in the 2011 models (actually there are but, again, with way more bling than I need/want

Having said all that, I had the guy build on paper a 2012 1500 with the options I do/do not want/need and the 6.2L. It's going to be a bit more money than I wished to spend but I have told the wife to not buy any shoes or purses (she has like 15 purses and I have one wallet - what's up with women and purses anyway??) for the next few months so we should be OK. I have not yet made the final decision between the 5.3 and 6.2. I keep leaning one way then the next. As this truck will be with us for ten or so years, I don't want to regret my decision when it's all said and done.

In response to some of the latest posts -

Chris - I actually don't load too much in the truck so that is not an issue. Regarding your towing 6300 lbs, in what sort of landscape and at what speeds? As noted in my initial post, I tow through the Rockies (we like to go to Banff at least once per year) and travel to Denver Co, so need uphill strength, but more important, fairly high speeds on long straight stretches.

Fajitas21 - Those times you wish for a 6.2, under what conditions (and anyone else with a 5.3 feel free to chime in)? I have less of a problem going uphill and having the engine rev up but, as stated in my initial post, it drives me crazy when I am towing my current set-up with the 4.8L truck and having the thing shifting all the time on fairly flat straight stretches and being unable to keep a 65-70 mph rate. If I was confident the 5.3 would sit in 6th or at least 5th with revs around/under 2000/2200 under these conditions, I would seriously consider that power plant over the 6.2. In reality, I don't tow a big weight so may not need all of the 6.2.

APT - I don't know enough about 6spd versus 4 spd. Are the matching lower gears on both exactly the same and the 6spd has added "depth" or is the range the same and the 4spd just divides that range differently than the 6spd? (I'm sure my terms are not mechanically accurate).

11CCSilverado - Similar question as posed to Fajitas21. Under what conditions do you wish you had a 6.2? As your trailer is heavier than mine, I expect your answer would be more telling. Can you tow your set-up at decent highway speeds without sitting in a lower gear and higher rpms, or is your situation related to hill climbs etc?

Last questions - I'm trying to wrap my mind around the difference between 5.3 and 6.2 and gearing. Why is the difference between the 5.3 and 6.2 (all other things being equal) in tow capacity so close? My uneducated mind would think that the 6.2 should pull way more weight than the 5.3 (it seems the difference between the 4.8 and 5.3 is way more than between the 5.3 and 6.2, yet the former is only .5L apart while the latter is .9L apart). Is the 3:42 (or 3.73 etc) in the 5.3 the exact same piece of equipment as in the 6.2? Are they being conservative with the 6.2 or generous with the 5.3?

Actually, sorry, one more - As the 2011's are virtually non-existent up here, anyone know what they are like in the US, particularly Washington State.? I may consider purchasing down there and importing if availability/price is appealing.

Anyway, thanks to all for adding some valuable input and opinions. The quest continues.

Marv

07 CC Sierra · October 15, 2011

Had to go out of town for a bit so have not been able to post lately, so here's a bit of an update.

I visited a dealer yesterday, looking to see if they had any 2011's still around (to take advantage of the $10,000 incentives they have going on). Unfortunately, at least up here in B.C. Canada, there is literally no choice locally with the 5.3L (without all the bling and options and 20 inch wheels - I am looking for a fairly basic truck). The nearest that comes even close to the package that I want is in Ontario and would add about $1800 to bring in and even then it isn't to my specifics. Unfortunately, there are no 6.2L's either in the 2011 models (actually there are but, again, with way more bling than I need/want

Having said all that, I had the guy build on paper a 2012 1500 with the options I do/do not want/need and the 6.2L. It's going to be a bit more money than I wished to spend but I have told the wife to not buy any shoes or purses (she has like 15 purses and I have one wallet - what's up with women and purses anyway??) for the next few months so we should be OK. I have not yet made the final decision between the 5.3 and 6.2. I keep leaning one way then the next. As this truck will be with us for ten or so years, I don't want to regret my decision when it's all said and done.

In response to some of the latest posts -

11CCSilverado - Similar question as posed to Fajitas21. Under what conditions do you wish you had a 6.2? As your trailer is heavier than mine, I expect your answer would be more telling. Can you tow your set-up at decent highway speeds without sitting in a lower gear and higher rpms, or is your situation related to hill climbs etc?

Anyway, thanks to all for adding some valuable input and opinions. The quest continues.

Marv

I really just wish I had the 6.2 when not towing for the power and better gas milage and wonder how the 6.2 would tow my trailer. I chose the HD which is more practical vs the truck that would be more fun when unloaded.

On the few hills I've climbed with this set up, the 6.0 reved to about 3500 rpm if I remember right and it'll run at about 2000 rpm on flat land with plenty of passing power. It'll also maintain speed without downshifting over overpasses unlike the 5.3 I had before. My previous truck had a 6" lift with 35s and stock 3.73s so that would explain why it was screaming over the slightest incline at all.

Blue2500CC · October 16, 2011

Had to go out of town for a bit so have not been able to post lately, so here's a bit of an update.

I visited a dealer yesterday, looking to see if they had any 2011's still around (to take advantage of the $10,000 incentives they have going on). Unfortunately, at least up here in B.C. Canada, there is literally no choice locally with the 5.3L (without all the bling and options and 20 inch wheels - I am looking for a fairly basic truck). The nearest that comes even close to the package that I want is in Ontario and would add about $1800 to bring in and even then it isn't to my specifics. Unfortunately, there are no 6.2L's either in the 2011 models (actually there are but, again, with way more bling than I need/want

Having said all that, I had the guy build on paper a 2012 1500 with the options I do/do not want/need and the 6.2L. It's going to be a bit more money than I wished to spend but I have told the wife to not buy any shoes or purses (she has like 15 purses and I have one wallet - what's up with women and purses anyway??) for the next few months so we should be OK. I have not yet made the final decision between the 5.3 and 6.2. I keep leaning one way then the next. As this truck will be with us for ten or so years, I don't want to regret my decision when it's all said and done.

In response to some of the latest posts -

Chris - I actually don't load too much in the truck so that is not an issue. Regarding your towing 6300 lbs, in what sort of landscape and at what speeds? As noted in my initial post, I tow through the Rockies (we like to go to Banff at least once per year) and travel to Denver Co, so need uphill strength, but more important, fairly high speeds on long straight stretches.

Fajitas21 - Those times you wish for a 6.2, under what conditions (and anyone else with a 5.3 feel free to chime in)? I have less of a problem going uphill and having the engine rev up but, as stated in my initial post, it drives me crazy when I am towing my current set-up with the 4.8L truck and having the thing shifting all the time on fairly flat straight stretches and being unable to keep a 65-70 mph rate. If I was confident the 5.3 would sit in 6th or at least 5th with revs around/under 2000/2200 under these conditions, I would seriously consider that power plant over the 6.2. In reality, I don't tow a big weight so may not need all of the 6.2.

APT - I don't know enough about 6spd versus 4 spd. Are the matching lower gears on both exactly the same and the 6spd has added "depth" or is the range the same and the 4spd just divides that range differently than the 6spd? (I'm sure my terms are not mechanically accurate).

11CCSilverado - Similar question as posed to Fajitas21. Under what conditions do you wish you had a 6.2? As your trailer is heavier than mine, I expect your answer would be more telling. Can you tow your set-up at decent highway speeds without sitting in a lower gear and higher rpms, or is your situation related to hill climbs etc?

Last questions - I'm trying to wrap my mind around the difference between 5.3 and 6.2 and gearing. Why is the difference between the 5.3 and 6.2 (all other things being equal) in tow capacity so close? My uneducated mind would think that the 6.2 should pull way more weight than the 5.3 (it seems the difference between the 4.8 and 5.3 is way more than between the 5.3 and 6.2, yet the former is only .5L apart while the latter is .9L apart). Is the 3:42 (or 3.73 etc) in the 5.3 the exact same piece of equipment as in the 6.2? Are they being conservative with the 6.2 or generous with the 5.3?

Actually, sorry, one more - As the 2011's are virtually non-existent up here, anyone know what they are like in the US, particularly Washington State.? I may consider purchasing down there and importing if availability/price is appealing.

Anyway, thanks to all for adding some valuable input and opinions. The quest continues.

Marv

Marv,

We live in Mid-Michigan, so it is fairly level travel compared to being out West. I usually travel between 65-70, as all trailer tires (as I have read) are only rated to 65mph. We haven't taken a trip to Northern Mi yet with the trailer, but I don't see an issue other then maybe a little more time in 4th on the bigger hills.

As for towing that load in 6th gear, unless you happen to have a trailer like Wavery, I don't think it would do it, even around 4500lbs (could be wrong though! Lol). The wind resistance is just to great. I know on a pretty windy day coming home this Summer, 5th didn't seem to be enough as we were heading into the wind, but 4th was just fine.

Since you don't load much in the truck bed, you should be fine with either the 5.3 or 6.2 (6.2 Max gets 300lbs higher payload). I think the biggest reason in difference between the tow ratings of the 4.8 and the 5.3/6.2 is the 6spd tranny with at least the 3.42 rear end. The little jump with the Max tow from the 5.3 is you are reaching the limit of the rest of the truck, mainly the frame.

Will you put a topper on the truck? That will take away form some of your payload.

Is there times I wish I had the 6.2, YES! But the 5.3 has done everything I have asked it to do, but just having the 6.2 would have been sweet! Lol The only thing I would like really is the extra payload of the Max Tow pkg since my tw is up there, but never felt I NEEDED the extra power of the 6.2.

Good luck!

Chris

music · October 16, 2011

Just to verify... we're talking 4500 lbs max? That's a pretty easy tow w/ the 5.3, but would be "very easy" w/ the 6.2. My last camper was about that weight, and it pulled in 3rd for almost all rolling terrain, and most steeper grades I hit. I may have hit 2nd a few times around here @ 65 mph, but not much. Heck, our current camper is closer to 7000 lbs loaded, and I don't hit 2nd very often under normal conditions (hilly, moderate wind). The only time I *had* to slow down with the 7k lb camper was this summer, when pulling up/over a 10,000 ft peak in WY. I still didn't hit 1st, but it was "pedal to the floor" in 2nd, holding 45 mph for over an hour (maybe two?). That said, 40 to 50 mph was *plenty* for that mountain (over 10% grade and windy). For what it's worth, the same grade with a 5.3/3.42/6-spd would have pulled in 2nd @ 4000 rpm @ 45 mph with a little throttle to spare (vs 3000 rpm in 2nd on the 4-spd at ~ full throttle). 3rd on the 5.3/6spd would definitely *not* have done the job.

Edit: Regarding my temps/cooling comment above, the difference may be primarily on the 4-spd. The 4spd uses the torque converter more, and will unlock in 4th when pulling through hills. 3rd tends to stay "locked", and runs cooler. It's also pumping more coolant, and is a 1-to-1 gear. The 6spd doesn't use the TC as much, and doesn't have a 1-to-1 gear, so it probably doesn't matter whether you're in 5th or 4th.

fajitas21 · October 16, 2011

I clarify I've not reached a situation where I needed the 6.2L over the 5.3L.

I only say sometimes it would be nice so those uphill starts from a complete stop could be tackled faster, but that's pretty much it. The 5.3L gets after it and I get a little better MPG while not towing.

Also, Payload is the true kicker in these trucks, and the person who said that the 5.3L and 6.2L aren't far apart because it's reaching the limits of the truck is right. That 5.3L could likely tow 12,000 lbs but you'd be insane to try it due to the fact you're driving a 5100 LB truck pulling over 2x it's weight back there, and it's a light duty truck. That's a job for the bigger trucks due to heavier suspension, bigger brakes, heavier weight etc.

That brings me to another somewhat rant regarding the EcoBoost, and the 11,300 towing load. That's the long bed, 3.73 geared truck with max tow, but once again, you'll max your payload LONG before you SAFELY hook up 11,300 lbs. Not to mention with that gearing and options, you'll never hit the 22MPG unloaded it states. Also, those turbos pull hard (No one can argue that), but people are reporting awful towing MPG compared to our trucks due to the fact that turbos = gas guzzler. (End Rant)

In other words, don't worry about the tow capacity, it's a very unattainable number to reach. The 5.3L can do just about anything the 6.2L can, but the 6.2L is gonna grip it and rip it

wurgs · October 17, 2011

,

Wurgs,

Do you have LT tires on your trailer? If they are ST tires, everything I have read states the ST tires are only rated up to 65mph.

Chris

Not sure off hand, trailers now on seasonal lot but looked the tires up online before I purchased the rv a couple years ago and said rated for 85 mph.

When you say "RV"........ are you talking M/H or trailer? ......big difference in tires.

Its a Jayco 26BHS travel trailer. The only thing I can remember for sure is they are Goodyear tires

fajitas21 · October 17, 2011

Its a Jayco 26BHS travel trailer

Those will have ST rated tires, which are 65 MPH. Anything faster is asking for trouble bud.

On a side note, my Father in Law has that same trailer, nice rig !

APT · October 17, 2011

6.2L vs. 5.3L. It seems fuel will cost you only about 10% more for a lot more power. Can you afford 10% higher fuel bill? While the 5.3L will be enough, the 6.2L is fantastic. I test pulled my TT with one.

The 6-spd gear spread is wider and the gears are spaced closer together. Take a look at this. First gear is like a granny gear at 4.0 vs 2.48 or 3.06 depending on light or heavy duty. Then 2-6 is about the same spread as the old 1-4. GM light duty is favoring splitting the difference to get some lower gearing and some taller gearing by using 3.08 and 3.42 axle instead of 3.73 and 4.10 with the old 4-spds.

music · October 17, 2011

Take a look at this.

Looks like Ford numbers, comparing a new EB to the previous 5.4. I've run the same calcs before, and the Tundra 5.7/4.30 places very well in this type of comparison. The GM 6.2 is about the same, but requires a special order around here.

I did the same calcs a number of ways, but couldn't accurately reflect torque converter function (no data). I've test driven the 6-spd enough to get a feel for it, and first and 4th gears on the 4-spds use the TC a lot more than the 6-spds do (by design). The "torque to wheels" isn't as dramatic as it appears when looking at from the perspective of straight shift transmissions. The older 4-spds purposely use the TC to amplify torque at various points, but the new 6-spds purposely try not to do that... as it's less efficient. The 6-spds (and future 8-spds) have enough gears, that they behave more like "automated manuals", but still use the TC when needed.

APT · October 17, 2011

Doh, wrong image. I'll replace it.

marpel · October 17, 2011

Thanks to everyone for the additional comments. To answer a few points - Yes, it will only be about 4500 lbs. I don't really load the bed when we travel (portable bbq, couple lawn chairs...). We don't really practice traditional rv'ing where we take a lot of stuff and hang around the site. I do landscape photography so we often head out early and return late. However, I amy be suffering from "tow hard fatigue". I have had three different trailers and three different tow vehicles and due to circumstance, each vehicle has been a bit underpowered, so I have spent a lot of travelling time wishing the vehicle had more power. I may be swinging the pendulum to far the other way

I think either engine sounds like it will do what I need it to do and it will likely come down to cost and package. I was hoping for a left-over 2011 but appears that won't happen so it will be a sparse 2012 build (not really interested in all the bling and options on most trucks typically on the lot - told one salesman I wanted a bare bones (air and cruise), fairly cheap truck and when it was all said and done, he showed me an almost $60K set of wheels that had more chrome and every electric add-on known to mankind...go figure).

Marv

music · October 17, 2011

6.2L vs. 5.3L. It seems fuel will cost you only about 10% more for a lot more power. Can you afford 10% higher fuel bill? While the 5.3L will be enough, the 6.2L is fantastic. I test pulled my TT with one.

I'd be curious to hear more about that test. What do you pull with now? I'm guessing you're looking at all the options for a tow vehicle here...

To be specific: you pay ~10% more in fuel for ~20% (+) more power (assuming equal gearing), but that extra power rating and rated mpg is with 91 octane. Not sure about the difference @ 87 oct.