F350 - 2500HD comparison

[seatec]

I have a buddy who is towing a 26000 lbs trailer from N.Carolina to Viva Las Vegas. He called me and was razzing me that hi F350 dooly SD was passing HD duramaxes left and right going up the smokey mountains. He said that was in second peddle to the metal and passing HD Duramaxes. is this feasible or is my buddy full of it as usual? Give me ammo so i can lay it on him next time he calls me to tell me another tall tale of his SD.

 

Thanx guys

[seatec]

The silence is deafening. Could it be that the SD does have more Yank?

[bluenote]

Seatec-

 

It's almost as if you're trolling for one of us to get all bent out of shape over this posting.  However, since your signature indicates you drive a Duramax, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

You can put his boasting to rest on your own.  Line up your DMax with his PSD.  Unless you're bone stock and he has done a decent amount of bombing, you will easily beat him both empty, and hauling equivalent loads.  That is a fact backed up by more than one independent, published test.  Stock vs. stock is a win by the Duramax EVERY time.

 

One thing I noticed was he said he was pushing so hard he was in 2nd gear.  Maybe the Dmax's he allegedly passed were traveling the speed limit while he was driving like a fool.  To me, a better indicator of engine power would be to pull a grade at a moderate speed (i.e. 62-65 mph), and see how well you can hold that speed.  I'm not saying the PSD isn't a capable engine, because it certainly is.  When the new 6.0L version hits the market, it might even be quicker than the DMax, but that remains to be seen.

[seatec]

I absolutey did not want to start a war thread. Sorry if it seemed that way. i too thought that the D-Max had more power across the band but was a little hesitant to argue with my buddy since he is a mechanic and (i thought) knows better.

 

thanx for the enlightenment.

PS i showed my buddy the link where the Dmax out pulls the SD and CUmmins and he said it was rigged and the dmax was weighted down in the bed for more traction.

[RyanbabZ71]

but was a little hesitant to argue with my buddy since he is a mechanic and (i thought) knows better.

 

Ford owners always think they know better.  You know the real story just agree with him to make him happy  

 

 

 

i showed my buddy the link where the Dmax out pulls the SD and CUmmins and he said it was rigged and the dmax was weighted down in the bed for more traction

 

haha excuses.  When your wrong you will make up any lame excuse to sound right.

[Colorado Kid]

I haven't pulled 26,000 pounds, but EVERY time a another truck has passed me on a climb it has been because I was already running as fast as I wanted to go.  I generally run 68 MPH when towing the 5th wheel, and can do that anywhere on I-70 in Colorado.  If someone wants to go faster he can go around, I won't block him or race him.  If someone wants to go slower, or can't go that fast, I'll go right on around him...this tends to happen a lot more often than the other case, at least going uphill.  When I get where I'm going I will have gotten 14 MPG and my wife will not have  done this .

 

If your friend went past me (and I don't think he did) it was because I wasn't trying.  By the way, you haven't siad what engine you friend has.  If it's a V-10 and he has 3.73 gears and was screaming in 2nd he might be going faster than I want to.  If it's a PSD then I haven't been on a hill that would have me going slow enough for him to catch me in 2nd except maybe Wilson pass west of Jackson WY...which is steep. curvy and 2 lanes...I'd rember if anyone passed me there, but they didn't.  I was keeping up just fine with a Chysler Town and County with Idaho plates (I was slower on the curves, but caught up on the straights).

 

On Edit:

 

Tell your friend that he can meet me at Gomer's Diesel in Missoula MT this Saturday (9/7/02) any time after 9:00 AM.  Several of us are getting together to take turns pulling the same trailer up the same hill.  He can see for himself if it is rigged.  I'll be there to (I Hope) uphold the reputation of 6 speed stock Duramaxes. I will buy dinner for anybody who drives a stock PSD up the hill (with the trailer of course) faster than I do it in my stock (I don't even have an EGT guage) D-max.  My wife won't be there, and I WILL be trying!  

 

I'm hoping someone will show up with a stock PSD or Cummins, because I'm afraid that otherwise I might be the slowest one up the hill!  (I believe all the other D-maxes will have Allisons, and most will have at least some mods).  One guy is expected to bring a Cummins that has Dyno'd over 550 HP...I'm not making any bets with him!

 

Win. Loose, DNF or DNGT (Did not get there) I'll let you know next Tuesday.

[Kansas Kid]

Since he was running in second gear, he obviously had an automatic transmission.  If that is the case, a PSD/4R100 or a ISB/48RE won't run with a Dmax/Allison in a loaded drag race.  The competitors motors are detuned a bit in order to protect the transmission.  But if you were to compare all three motors backed by a manual transmission, some people would be a bit suprised.  The almighty Duramax doesn't seem to blow tthe other two motors away while towing heavy when backed with a manual.  Especially if you are towing on the hills and try to hold your speed in a higher gear.  Ever notice how there was never a comparison between all three diesel engines with manual transmission?  Ya think that might be because GM realized their biggest advantage was the Allison transmission, not pure power from the Dmax....

 

Now don't get me wrong, I like the Dmax.  I just don't think its all some people make it out to be, especially for people who want manual transmissions.

[Kansas Kid]

i showed my buddy the link where the Dmax out pulls the SD and CUmmins and he said it was rigged and the dmax was weighted down in the bed for more traction

 

haha excuses.  When your wrong you will make up any lame excuse to sound right.

To bad thats actually what happened, huh?  It was even admitted by the people that set the video up.    

[GreenRado]

If you're talking about the tug-of-war between an early red dmax truck and the silver PSD and then the cummins, I wondered about that - it looked to me that the dmax truck seemed to sit "un-GM like", lower in the back than front when not pulling even!

 

So they admitted it was weighted - legitimately?

[Dihappy]

I have a buddy who is towing a 26000 lbs trailer from N.Carolina to Viva Las Vegas. He called me and was razzing me that hi F350 dooly SD was passing HD duramaxes left and right going up the smokey mountains. He said that was in second peddle to the metal and passing HD Duramaxes. is this feasible or is my buddy full of it as usual? Give me ammo so i can lay it on him next time he calls me to tell me another tall tale of his SD.

 

Thanx guys

I dont see why he wasnt passing them up if he was traveling faster then they were.

 

I routinely get passed up by VW bugs and such cuz im just not going that fast.

 

I belive the F350's hp/tq is produced at a mx of about 1200-1800rpms.   If he was anywhere near highway speeds, he'd have run out of max power a long time ago.

[Colorado Kid]

I'm back, and a day earlier than promised!

 

Only one Dodge showed up, he ran in the "Modified" catagory and was definately faster than the stock D-maxes.  There was also only one D-max in the modified catagory, and the D-max outran the Dodge.  Relying on my somewhat suspect memory...the modifieds pulled a goosneck trailer that weighed 16,470#.  The winning D-max had that rig going something like 59 MPH at one mile up the 6% grade and an ET of 72 seconds.  The modified Dodge (I don't know what mod's he had...I heard him claim around 450 HP, so more is possible) took 77 seconds.  I don't recall his speed, but it must have been around 55 MPH.

 

The "stock" and the 6.5L (stock and modified) trucks pulled 10,200# up the same grade.  No stock Fords or Dodges showed up this year, but last year they pulled 9,700 Lbs up the same grade.  Allison (stock) trucks made about 75 - 80 seconds and 52-55 MPH both years.  My 6 speed ran 71 seconds and 58 MPH using 4th gear at the govenor, and 75 seconds at 55 MPH with a bad launch (bogged down) having shifted up to 5th.  I was going 58 well below the 1/2 mile point on both runs, but it wouldn't quite hold the speed in 5th.

 

Two guys who ran modified 6.5's to terminal velocities in the neighborhood of 44 MPH rode with me on the 4th gear run...they were most impressed with the fact that my coolant temps were the same at the start and finish lines, as the 6.5's gained 30 (intercooled) to 50 (not intercooled) degrees during the climb.  My clutch fan did not even engage!

 

Hearing the unmuffled 5" exhaust and seeing the 3 wheel burnout (4wd with rear locker) burnout from the modifeid D-max was exciting, and it would have been fun to be able to accelrate the load in 5th gear, but all in all I still have enough truck...the only pickups that passed me on the trip were not towing, and I still haven't found a hill I can't tow my 5th wheel up as fast as I want to go.  Still did better than 14 MPG for the round trip (although I set a new record low of 13.1 MPG westbound on I-80 from home to Rock Springs,Wyoming...the breeze was blowing...still went 68 MPH up hill and down).

 

The Allison still wins for drag racing (empty), but for that load on that hill on that day the 6 speed was stronger...mostly due to the closer ratio splits.  Before I pulled my best guess was that I would have a slower ET due to shifting/boost loss, and about equal top speed...that's not how it worked out.

[Kansas Kid]

The Allison still wins for drag racing (empty), but for that load on that hill on that day the 6 speed was stronger...mostly due to the closer ratio splits.  Before I pulled my best guess was that I would have a slower ET due to shifting/boost loss, and about equal top speed...that's not how it worked out.

That would have been my guess as well.  As a matter of fact, I'm really suprised at your results.  With everyone talking about how superior the Allison is at towing, I would have expected you to be several seconds slower in ET.  Guess it just goes to show that even the best automatics still doesn't compete with the hand shaker when it comes to towing.  Doesn't bother me any though, I wouldn't want a diesel with an automatic anyways.

 

btw, why is it that a stock HO Cummins or PSD with a manual never shows up when there was a Dmax/6-spd for comparison.  I'd love to see how the three stack up, but it will probably never happen....

[Colorado Kid]

The stock Cummins HO came last year and was outpulled by the stock D/A.  The stock PSD 6 speed was way behind the Dodge.  (Of course that was before the PSD had 525 Lb. Ft. ).  That doesn't leave much doubt about the final rankings as of the 2002 Model year, does it?

 

I sure wish we had found a 2003 Cummins to come play with us, but it didn't happen.  By next summer the Fs and Ds will probably all run and hide from my truck.  I don't know that I'm going to go to the trouble of driving 1,000 miles each way to find that out!

[SilveradoWV]

I saw an F350 dually pulling a huge car hauler loaded with 3 AWD Astro vans, not sure of the weights on the vans or the trailer, but I bet it was over the rated weight!