Predator Diablo Vs. Blackbear Tune

[yukon25008.1]

No expierience with the diablo, but i can tell you my in person blackbear tune was a great expierience.. the truck (8.1) runs 110% and i gained 2-4 mpg, trannys great, motors very effeicient, throttle response is better than i thought it would be. overall an awesome upgrade. will deal with just for other vehicles in the future no mattter where i have to go.. In person tune is the way to go!

[renegadeking]

No expierience with the diablo, but i can tell you my in person blackbear tune was a great expierience.. the truck (8.1) runs 110% and i gained 2-4 mpg, trannys great, motors very effeicient, throttle response is better than i thought it would be. overall an awesome upgrade. will deal with just for other vehicles in the future no mattter where i have to go.. In person tune is the way to go!

 

for my 2002 5.3 the stock predator actually did a far bit i was surprised with the results. the separate computer cables are $30 bucks. you can buy it anywhere you can buy the predator. so when you buy the predator you can just pick that up to. and the custom tune for the predator are emailed back and forth. very easy set up. you have to download two small programmes from the diablo website. One for getting the tunes off and on from the predator and one for getting the data logging. if you have a laptop you can run the data log program and watch all the charts and gages of all the truck parameters. the programs are free. if you look at http://www.dslogredux.com/DiabLew_Tune/ It will tell you exactly what to do.

 

the predator will be $400's if you get the diablew tune. if you do buy the predator definitely spend the 100 bucks and get the custom tune.

[[email protected]]

Or you could buy the diablo and do your own custom tune.

[Jennabear]

With the inperson tune or the AutoCal, we can tune for BOTH the ECM and TCM on the 07+ vehicles. The transmission settings are half of the tune, and you can get some huge gains just from a few TCM tweaks.

 

Lew would be able to answer better, but I am pretty sure the Predator will never have TCM support, you will have to purchase a Trinity for that. I don't believe that the Trinity has TCM support yet either.

[BLACK REV 800 X]

Well, the BB tune is installed and I have some comparisons...

 

Bottom line is I have to give Diablo credit as they do have a good product that does make a difference, but the Black Bear tune does go above and beyond. I'd say I have atleast 30K miles on a Diablo between my old 6.0 VMAX and 6.2 for comparison between the two.

 

With snowy and wet road conditions I have only made one full throttle run with the BB tune, and have to say there is nothing that will put a smile on your face like the 6.2 going through the gears shifting at 6000 rpm.... With the Diablo I was stuck at 5400, and believe me, there is a big difference... I'm running the "Daily Tow Haul" TCM update, so don't have an idea of how the "sport" tcm update will run, but the tranny is way better at holding gears and shifting when it should with the BB tune.

 

As far a gas mileage, we took a 200 mile trip today in snowy conditions for our youngest B-ball tourney and averaged 16.9 mpg driving 65 in auto 4 X 4, and the best I had every averaged in 2 wheel drive was 14.9... So, I know I gained atleast 2+ if I keep my foot out of it. I also noticed that driving 60 or so and then stepping on it to accelerate to pass (not a rush type pass) would easily accelerate up to 75 without shifting to 5th and barely stepping on it compared to the sponge the accelerator was with the stock tune. The Diablo also was good at this as well so I have to give credit to Diablo as well in this type of driving.

 

Overall at this point I give the thumbs up to both, but when romping on it, the Diablo put a smile on my face, and the BB tune makes me laugh out loud!

[bc_gavin]

Question, if i wanted more off the line power and throttle response what kinda tune should i get i do not tow anything BTW i live in CANADA

[rmck490]

Alright, there's a lot of confusing comparisons going in this thread (and other threads). I have yet to find one comparison between a BB tune and Diablo Predator custom tune done by a CMR tuner.

 

First question; is there anyone who has had BOTH a BB tune AND a Diablo Predator custom tune (NOT A CANNED DIABLO PREDATOR TUNE) that can provide their opinion which is better or equal in performance? Of all the threads (including this one) I have read, I have yet been able to tell from posters comparing the two what they are basing the comparison on - a canned Diablo tune vs a BB tune or a custom Diablo tune vs a BB tune. There's no doubt in my mind that a BB tune vs a Diablo canned tune would be a BB tune beats a Diablo canned tune hands down.

 

This comparison is important to anyone concerned with costs. Add things up. A single custom Diablo Predator tune will end up costing you about $430 ($275 for the Predator, $50 for the cables, and $105 for the custom tune). That's the minimum for one custom tune. Additional tunes beyond minor adjustments will cost you another $105. The Predator will store up to five custom tunes. Given that, total gross cost potential for five custom tunes with the Predator is $850. Once you have the custom tune loaded, your Predator still allows you to tweak some parameters to fit your needs without sending it back to the tuner.

 

With a BB tune, it varies somewhat. Black Bear's website will sell you an Autocal for $549. The device will store up to five tunes but the website speaks to four tunes being included with that price. The fifth tune would carry a nominal fee they don't specify. One can only make assumptions what the total gross cost potential for five tunes may be in comparison with the Predator. Black Bear charges $300 for a data-logging tune. Assuming this, total gross cost potential for five custom tunes with the Autocal is $849. Once you have the BB tune loaded, you will need to send the tune to BB to tweak the tune more to fit your needs. One advantage with the Autocal over the Predator is the ability to tune up to eight different vehicles but I assume at an additional price they don't specify.

 

Black Bear's other options include a traditional tune ($200) where you give them some details and they write a tune for you, an in person tune ($250) where they use their equipment to log data from you vehicle while driving and write a tune, and a data-logging tune ($300) where you log data using their equipment and you send them this data to write a tune. These are net values given equipment or core charges are refunded.

 

So, here's how I see this shaking out:

 

Tuner One Tune Two Tunes Three Tunes Four Tunes Five Tunes

 

Predator $430 $535 $640 $745 $850

BB w/Autocal $549 $549 $549 $549 $849

BB traditional $200 $400 $600 $800 $1,000

BB in-person $250 $500 $750 $1,000 $1,250

BB data-logging $300 $600 $900 $1,200 $1,500

[SouthCo]

Very good point of pricing multiple tunes, but why would I need 5 custom tunes? 2 would probably be more than enough. 1 for economy and 1 for no holds barred fun. If I ever mess with tuning it will be a black bear tune. You failed to mention in your pricing that the predator can't tune the TCM (transmission module) so the predator should cost alot less since it only tunes half the overall product on the newer trucks.

[kdixer]

Very good point of pricing multiple tunes, but why would I need 5 custom tunes? 2 would probably be more than enough. 1 for economy and 1 for no holds barred fun. If I ever mess with tuning it will be a black bear tune. You failed to mention in your pricing that the predator can't tune the TCM (transmission module) so the predator should cost alot less since it only tunes half the overall product on the newer trucks.

 

 

Agre 100%

 

Custom diablo tune or not, the predator will only do half the tuning. The TCM tuning capability of the autocal is easily worth the extra $120 based on earlier posted prices.

 

It does not matter how many tunes these devices will hold because you store them on a computer and transfer them to the tuners as needed.

 

In my personal opinion it is a matter of principle against Diablo. They have always promised to provide TCM support for predator owners with a gmt900. Yet they are the only tuning company to not yet have TCM support for a gmt900. That just does not seem right...

[hy_69]

Very good point of pricing multiple tunes, but why would I need 5 custom tunes? 2 would probably be more than enough. 1 for economy and 1 for no holds barred fun. If I ever mess with tuning it will be a black bear tune. You failed to mention in your pricing that the predator can't tune the TCM (transmission module) so the predator should cost alot less since it only tunes half the overall product on the newer trucks.

 

 

Agre 100%

 

Custom diablo tune or not, the predator will only do half the tuning. The TCM tuning capability of the autocal is easily worth the extra $120 based on earlier posted prices.

 

It does not matter how many tunes these devices will hold because you store them on a computer and transfer them to the tuners as needed.

 

In my personal opinion it is a matter of principle against Diablo. They have always promised to provide TCM support for predator owners with a gmt900. Yet they are the only tuning company to not yet have TCM support for a gmt900. That just does not seem right...

 

 

 

but what about if we're talking about a 99 silverado? predator can tune the exact same parameters as bb autocal right?

[SouthCo]

I don't think it can tune the exact same parameters but maybe I'm wrong. I don't have a '99 so you may have to let me know. I doubt I'd spend $400 or more to tune something over 10 years old. Who knows, maybe I would. I'm happy the '03 Tahoe runs great and drives great so I'm not putting anything on her at 177K miles.

[rmck490]

I see this has created some further discussion which was my intent. The OP was asking for opinions so I was providing other options for consideration. In order to give the OP the best options, I was asking who's had BOTH types of custom tunes to compare which is better. Comparing a canned Predator tune to a BB tune is no contest. BB wins everytime. How many out there have tried a BB tune AND a CUSTOM Predator tune? Those that have had both can give a better opinion which is best.

 

The five tune comparison was intented to bring all the possibilities on to a an even cost plain for consideration. The table attempts to provide the individual tuning cost options for one, two, three, four, or five tunes. I myself don't see the need for more than two tunes. Unless you race. In this case you may want more than two tunes.

 

What cannot be factored into the cost is the ability to make minor adjustments to the tune without sending the tune to the tuner. In this case, the Predator can do this on the fly. The Autocal option is faster than the three remaining options, but you need to data log, email, and wait for the tuner to return your custom tune.

 

As Jenna pointed out in a previous post, GM parsed out transmission control to the TCM in 2007. So older models, like my 2000 Silverado, the transmission is controlled by the PCM and both the Predator or a BB tune are valid options. Newer model GM trucks with a TCM shouldn't buy into the Predator. Their choices are left with the BB tuning options at this time. The Trinity by Diablo Sport still doesn't support the TCM at this time. The Predator never will.

 

I'm still waiting to hear from that one guy whose had both types of tunes: BB vs custom Predator tune by a CMR tuner.

[Matt_]

Another thing to consider is "Customer support" and "trustworthiness".

 

Diablosport Promised TCM support to predator owners/buyers for years. They have since failed on that commitment. And to throw salt in the wounds, those who purchased the predator under the presumption (based on verbal commitments from diablosport that they were working on TCM support) that they would have an update and TCM support one day, are SOL. And to make matters worse, they're told that they can just "upgrade" their predators to the [much more expensive] Trinity which *might have TCM support one day for a $100 trade-in credit for their predator.

 

 

I'd recommend the trustworthiness and customer support of Justin & Jenna over Diablosport ANYDAY.

 

Just my $.02

[Jennabear]

Alright, there's a lot of confusing comparisons going in this thread (and other threads). I have yet to find one comparison between a BB tune and Diablo Predator custom tune done by a CMR tuner.

 

First question; is there anyone who has had BOTH a BB tune AND a Diablo Predator custom tune (NOT A CANNED DIABLO PREDATOR TUNE) that can provide their opinion which is better or equal in performance? Of all the threads (including this one) I have read, I have yet been able to tell from posters comparing the two what they are basing the comparison on - a canned Diablo tune vs a BB tune or a custom Diablo tune vs a BB tune. There's no doubt in my mind that a BB tune vs a Diablo canned tune would be a BB tune beats a Diablo canned tune hands down.

 

This comparison is important to anyone concerned with costs. Add things up. A single custom Diablo Predator tune will end up costing you about $430 ($275 for the Predator, $50 for the cables, and $105 for the custom tune). That's the minimum for one custom tune. Additional tunes beyond minor adjustments will cost you another $105. The Predator will store up to five custom tunes. Given that, total gross cost potential for five custom tunes with the Predator is $850. Once you have the custom tune loaded, your Predator still allows you to tweak some parameters to fit your needs without sending it back to the tuner.

 

With a BB tune, it varies somewhat. Black Bear's website will sell you an Autocal for $549. The device will store up to five tunes but the website speaks to four tunes being included with that price. The fifth tune would carry a nominal fee they don't specify. One can only make assumptions what the total gross cost potential for five tunes may be in comparison with the Predator. Black Bear charges $300 for a data-logging tune. Assuming this, total gross cost potential for five custom tunes with the Autocal is $849. Once you have the BB tune loaded, you will need to send the tune to BB to tweak the tune more to fit your needs. One advantage with the Autocal over the Predator is the ability to tune up to eight different vehicles but I assume at an additional price they don't specify.

 

Black Bear's other options include a traditional tune ($200) where you give them some details and they write a tune for you, an in person tune ($250) where they use their equipment to log data from you vehicle while driving and write a tune, and a data-logging tune ($300) where you log data using their equipment and you send them this data to write a tune. These are net values given equipment or core charges are refunded.

 

So, here's how I see this shaking out:

 

Tuner One Tune Two Tunes Three Tunes Four Tunes Five Tunes

 

Predator $430 $535 $640 $745 $850

BB w/Autocal $549 $549 $549 $549 $849

BB traditional $200 $400 $600 $800 $1,000

BB in-person $250 $500 $750 $1,000 $1,250

BB data-logging $300 $600 $900 $1,200 $1,500

 

I think you read the website wrong....

 

A Black Bear tune (traditional or cable or inperson) has FREE tune updates for the lifetime that you own the vehicle. So once you purchase the tune, you can have us to an update for your modification.

 

So that being said, it is either $200 (traditional), $300 (cable) or $250 (inperson) for the tuning.

 

The AutoCal however, we have implemented 4 free tune updates for your vehicle. We have implemented this to alleviate misuse and monopolizing of our time by customers. To be honest, we have yet to have a customer that we have charged a fee on a tune update over the 4. We just want to make sure folks aren't asking for updates every week. This would take time away from other customers.

 

The AutoCal does allow for tuning of multiple vehicles (8 total) on each device, this is where the customer will have to pay for another tune- but won't have to pay for the device again. At this time, we are offering a discounted tuning fee for each additional vehicle you have tuned on the AutoCal of $225.

 

So I have edited your table below:

 

Tuner One Tune Two Tunes Three Tunes Four Tunes Five Tunes

 

Predator $430 $535 $640 $745 $850

BB w/Autocal $549 $549 $549 $549 $549

BB traditional $200 $200 $200 $200 $200

BB in-person $250 $250 $250 $250 $250

BB data-logging $300 $300 $300 $300 $300

 

 

Hopefully that clears things up a bit.

[Jennabear]

I'm still waiting to hear from that one guy whose had both types of tunes: BB vs custom Predator tune by a CMR tuner.

 

I know there are a few folks on here who have had both...hopefully they will post up for you.